It being the weekend, I am trying to occupy myself by dabbling in that shrinking subset of activities that do not involve staring at computer screens. But I wanted to bring to readers’ attention an interesting blogular discussion I came across this week about misogyny – among men! And involving one of my favourite bloggers, Ta-Nehisi Coates. This is an issue I don’t feel particularly qualified to opine on anyway, so here are some highlights from what I, anyway, found a very illuminating discussion:
- The discussion was sparked by Juan Williams of NPR referring to Michelle Obama as “Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress” on Fox News this week. (As Ta-Nehisi notes, the remark meant little other than that Williams “knows very little about Michelle Obama and even less about Stokely Carmichael.”)
- Adam Serwer at the American Prospect group blog notes that while Williams has been a big critic of hip-hop’s use of hateful slang, Williams’ remark shows “you don’t have to call a woman a bitch to treat her like one.”
- Ta-Nehisi agrees: “I think many of us who love the music… aren’t so much offended by the words, as what’s behind them, as what they say about how we feel about ourselves, about the women who raised us when our fathers ran off, about our sisters, about our only partners.”
Enjoy, and feel free to discuss in the comments here!
What crawled up Juan Williams’ ass? Sure, I agree with Ta-Nehisi but the “designer dress” bit is entirely belittling.
As for hip-hop, I’ve had a lot of discussions around this with friends and online. A while back on Jezebel, I said that I really like the older, more positive rap from the 90′s (DLS, Pharcyde, TCQ) and someone said, “oh yeah, that’s what White people like.” I thought it was interesting. Even if that were true (and it’s not), who gives a shit?
Sorry, I don’t want to listen to a rapper that tells a woman to get down on her knees – no matter how much I like the music.
And, PS, Q-Tip’s new album is the shit.
Also, PS, thank you for introducing me (us) to this blogger.
Coates is amazing. So young and astute without arrogance. As is Serwer. Since most of hip-hop escapes me (if it ain’t Chaka Khan, it ain’t music), I usually refrain from critical comments about the genre, following Coates advice of not condemning the whole because of a portion I don’t understand.
A great point is made by both and in the threads. Williams, who has been critical of hip-hop’s invectives nonetheless feels free to wrap his Fox pandering lips around untruths about Michelle Obama. Apparently that okay with him because he didn’t call her a “bitch.”
Williams moves higher on my shit list.
How interesting( see: eye roll inducing) that a positive image of black women is put on the center stage and Williams strips her of her femininity to make her an image he finds much easier to digest: a man he views as militant. All the while decrying hip hop’s negative image of black women as hypersexual objects.
Juan Williams is the type of black man that white conservatives love because he backs up their ignorant talking points. It’s interesting because a good many black people are conservative, but overwhelmingly vote for liberal candidates. While dems and repubs are pretty much two sides of the same coin, the way black dems reach of to Black America is much more successful than the black repub’s way of reaching out. Obama telling black males to pull up their pants and participate in their families comes from a place of tough love. Obama is going to help you but there are some things that you need to adjust about yourself. Williams(and Larry Elder and their ilk) comes not from a place of wanting to uplift the community because of a strong desire to want to see black people succeed, but rather a, “Y’all are embarrassing me, shape the fuck up.” A place of not wanting handouts, stop complaining and playing the victim. White conservatives love that because it reinforces their myopic views on race and they don’t have to confront their privilege. “See, a black person is saying it so it must be true!”
I agree with my blog crush, Ta-Nehisi. I enjoy hip hop, not the message that mainstream hip hop promotes. And like Adam, one of my biggest issues is the bitches/sister dichotomy. It reminds me of interviews with wives of hip hop artists who forgive the lyrics of their husbands because, “they aren’t talking about me.” Or Snoop Dogg’s comment during the Imus controversy, “It’s a completely different scenario. Rappers are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We’re talking about ho’s that’s in the ‘hood that ain’t doing shit, that’s trying to get a nigga for his money. These are two separate things.”
This, “They’re talking about Monique on the corner not Michelle in the cul-de-sac” is not a credo I subscribe to. They are talking about me and I make no qualms about it. To front an excuse of ignorance to make the music easier to enjoy does all black women a disservice.
All that said, I find some of the common complaints of hip hop are usually underdeveloped at best. The critique is always of the mainstream as an example of all. The critique is of “gansta rap” which is a mass produced image of black culture by rich white men aimed at and swallowed by middle class suburban white kids.
And NPR? I’m still upset about News and Notes being canceled.
Omifuckinggod, that is the best-written, best-argued, and funniest put-down I think I’ve ever read. Not to mention, the best use of a Gandalf quote. And adding a link to the story of Juan Williams’ sexual harassment history in the sign-off is just GOLDEN.
Thanks, PS, for introducing us to Ta-Nehisi. I think I’m in love.
Jessi Ramsey, your comments make me happy.
Another thank you for the Ta-Nehisi intro.
Jessi Ramsey, your name makes me happy.
I think you linked to a post by Coates during the election, PilgrimSoul, and I’ve been addicted ever since.
@Jessi: Well said.