In our first week, several of us here at The Pursuit of Harpyness posted a number of things indicting popular areas of supposedly feminine interest which we find problematic from a feminist viewpoint, namely: expensive handbags, high heels, and cosmetics. Although I am no Kreskin, I expect that we’ll continue to discuss similar issues from time to time.
Some good discussion has ensued, and for that I am/we are grateful, but I’ve also have seen a lot of defensiveness and qualification about these items. Your heels aren’t that high. Your bag was really a quality piece and totally worth what you spent. You, as a professional, have to present a certain, cosmetically-enhanced image. You don’t feel oppressed by these things; in fact, you enjoy them!
Every one is entitled to her own opinion, and a holding an opinion different from another’s does not infringe on anyone’s rights or lessen anyone’s choices. Arguing about who’s opinion is “correct” is a waste of energy, anyway. Humans have the unique ability to justify anything they care to. But I’m not in this to justify my own behavior, or merely provide a forum for others to justify their own. We’ll all do it anyway, to some extent. What I want is to dig deeper, think harder, and, well, “pursue my harpyness.” I’m not there, yet. I’ve yet to meet anyone who is.
Our FAQs state that we welcome comments which follow certain guidelines, but that comments like “But I [x], and I’m a good person!” are unhelpful, and in fact antithetical to what The Pursuit of Harpyness is about. Whether (or not) you wear make-up, heels, or carry a fancy purse has no bearing on your value as a person, a woman, or a feminist. There is no contest for Feminist-er than Thou, and in fact, infighting about minutiae does the movement little service.
In my post, I copped to using make-up because 1) it’s true, and 2) I wanted to make it clear that I really don’t think myself “better” (or, for that matter “worse”) than other women. I have insecurities about my appearance. No-newsflash at 11. I didn’t itemize what I use or belabor the point because 1) again: IT’S NOT A CONTEST and 2) I didn’t want the comments to turn into a place to swap make-up tips. There are plenty of places to do that already. It’s not about drawing a line about what heel-height is okay, or how many/which products you use, or which handbags are worth the expenditure. Discussing these nuances is emphatically not the point.
The point is that whatever we do (or not), we do (or not) for a reason. I am interested in interrogating the reasons I (and other women) do things that I know are damaging to my body, my mind, my sense of self. Using cosmetics is one of those things. There is nothing inherently feminist (or anti-feminist) about cosmetics, shoes, bags, or any thing else, in and of themselves. These things derive their meanings from their contexts, and unless you arrived at our blog through a wormhole into another dimension, the context you live in is Patriarchy.
As women, we do what they must to make their individual lives better, happier, and more successful within those confines. That might mean taking part in, even choosing and/or learning to enjoy, things that are based in their fundamental oppression. If you “do it for [your]self,” or aren’t interested in men’s attention, or you know-all-this-already-and-like-it-anyway, well, bully for you. YOU ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE PATRIARCHY AND THE MESSAGES IT SENDS TO EVERY WOMAN ABOUT HER PLACE IN THE WORLD.
You can choose to embrace or reject the trappings of femininity as they are defined in/by the Patriarchy, and you can even choose to “reclaim,” “subvert” or “deny” them in some fashion, but you cannot choose to be outside of the Patriarchy. There is no Outside. To believe otherwise is solipsistic, or mere vanity.
If you’re defensive about your use or embrace of these things (which I maintain are meant largely to distract and/or control you), I’d like for you to think about why. I welcome you to comment, thoughtfully, about why you’re defensive. About what that means. I do not, however, welcome your unqualified defense, as I have yet to read any such statement that doesn’t aim to shut down critique, and hence, thinking.
I don’t expect–or even particularly want–you to agree with me. If I didn’t want feedback, challenges, and discussion, I wouldn’t share my thoughts. I’m not perfect; I’m not particularly interested in being perfect. I am interested in lining up my actions with my philosophies, and I am interested in taking part in a discussion with intelligent, self-aware women about how they negotiate their own way down that precarious path.
I think we all buy into the Patriarchy. We cannot escape it.
Personally, I choose to spend my energy fighting the most evil, damaging elements (e.g. being told I have no value unless I’m married, that I’m only beautiful if I’m stick-thin with huge tits, that I shouldn’t argue/fight because it’s silly/unbecoming) but I let other elements slide. I have to pick my battles or I’ll spend my life running in circles and howling at the unfairness of it all. So I shave my legs, ignore catcalls, keep quiet when my father tells me I shouldn’t have such “high standards” about the men I date. I’m not acquiescing so much as saving up my energy for the more important conflicts.
We can’t fight on every front all the time. We have to pick what’s most important to us, or at least, the things we hate enough to say “enough!” (Yeah, Manolo, I’m looking at you) and fight on those.
I think I’m with Becky Sharper on the choosing of the battles. I save my outrage for more egregious misogyny, because while it’s great to always be questioning my motivations, it’s just difficult to bring myself to give up things I happen to enjoy. I do shave my legs and wear makeup and such, but I’d punch anyone in the face who dared to tell me I HAVE to do these things. I guess most of the time, I just don’t have the time or energy to apply my feminism (or any of my other worldviews) consistently in every area of my life all at once.
I second “choose your battles” and follow up with “I’ve made my peace” – I get defensive because I know I made a deal with the devil, in a sense, when I decided to primarily wear heels to work and to embrace a little make-up when I want to fit in with my office’s culture, and re-examining that choice again and again isn’t… constructive, for me. But I do think the discussions are important to stir up anyone who’s never thought through the “whys” of their beauty regimen.
There’s a gal in my office who puts on her make-up first thing in the morning no matter what she’s doing that day. She wore make-up and cute pumps to go to Six Flags. And nothing I could say would talk her down.
there’s definitely no outside the patriarchy, but I must say I feel more oppressed most times by class-based forms of oppression, like needing to look or act “professionally” (this concept not being free from gendered norms either of course) or to be aggressive and negotiate my raise, or in any way to normalize myself and change my behavior and looks so that I fit into this capitalistic notion of what is acceptable and normal and non-offensive to the earning classes. Don’t do drugs, don’t look slutty, don’t be dirty, don’t wear too much or too little makeup, don’t wear your hair too long or too short or in dreads, don’t go gray but no neon colored hair, don’t curse, wear the right kind of heel, don’t say offensive things, don’t be “too political”, stay in school, etc.
@JDRegent: Which begs the question: are all cultural expectations–race, class, etc.– automatically part of the Patriarchy because we live in a patriarchial society?
And on the total other hand, I sometimes resent being told not to use forms of power available to me because I am a woman. If feminism is in part about building the base of power for women, why should I forgo the use of sexual power to get a raise, or a job I want, or a political coalition I am forming, or a meeting with a representative, or to get access to people it is difficult to access otherwise? Why shouldn’t I embrace the sexual power I have vis a vis older men? If wearing heels and makeup means I get what I want, why not?
(Welcome to the devil’s advocate tennis match of my mind)
(Welcome to the devil’s advocate of my mind).
I’d say there’s all intersectional, Becky. There are racial elements to the capitalistic notions of “professionalism” JD speaks to.
To me it looks more like a venn diagram.
Becky — yeah. It’s definitely complicated. I mean I think the patriarchy definitely plays a role in what gets considered “professional,” for example, but I also think that patriarchy is not the only power structure operating there.
Also, sorry for the weird doublespeak inside my mind part up there. At first it wouldnt post and I had to retype.
JDR: yes, yes, a million times yes. As a bonus, it’s those sorts of comparisons (or estrangements, if you will) that make the oppressions of femininity–which are only partly about appearance–clearer to people who aren’t apt to see them as oppressions, but simply “what you do” or even “fun things!”
Norms, be they of class, race, sex/uality, language, etc. (and of course all these things intersect in various ways), are meant to control and limit you.
Which is why I could never date a dude named “Norm.” Oppressive sunzabitches.
But isn’t there also a resistance to the idea that the things you’ve considered your choices haven’t really been your choices? I was raised to understand sexism as specific comments or actions from individuals, never as a systematic thing that, for one, dictates the things I put on my body. I would imagine others have the same experience. No one likes to think that they’ve been an unwitting participant in their own oppression.
What I find interesting is that we, all too often, seem to conflate “self-esteem” with “self-respect.” And when I say “we” I do mean both we as women, as well as “we, as a patriarchal society.”
I hear you, JD Regent – I fight that voice a lot, because I know that for me (not necessarily for you, of course), it’s often a cop-out. I want to hid my head in the sand and pretend that I’m just “using the power that I have,” when usually it’s just being too tired or timid to oppose it, even though I’m not comfortable with it. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it doesn’t help me if I’m not honest with myself.
@labeled: What’s the difference between “self-esteem” and “self-respect?” (not being provocative here, I just genuinely don’t see the difference, b/c in my English major-y mind, “esteem” and “respect” are synonymous.
@SarahMC: I think the Venn diagram analogy is right on.
Khruschev, I think this is a really central issue especially for Americans who are so wedded to an individualistic, psychological, willful notion of a person. The whole idea of “double consciousness” or that we haven’t freely chosen our choices is very threatening, because it also sounds like right wing Supreme Court judges telling us that if we really had access to our true genius as women, we would never want abortions. I think there is a real tension there that is hard to get around theoretically.
Unpossible, so you dislike using your sexual power to get your needs met because it makes you uncomfortable? What if it doesn’t make me uncomfortable, or no more than the million other compromises I have had to make in order to get where I am? Why is sex a special kind of power we should never use?
Becky, I personally think that the Patriarchy is THE master (pun intended) narrative. Patriarchy in the Global West (and much of the Global Everywhere) looks like a well-dressed WASPy dude over 50. He is the visual representation of the “norms” of race, class, gender, sexuality (and whatever I’m forgetting).
JDR’s “why not take advantage of what’s offered to me?” question is one I return to occasionally, although I usually end up at the same conclusion. Thoughts?
PhDork, I think perhaps some of the defensiveness comes from the fact that some women are just tired of being told that their appearance defines them.
Labeled: I think the defensiveness PhDork is talking about though is more where these women are saying things like, “My appearance does define me! It’s Patriarchy-Free, 100% certified!”
@ Kruschev, @ JD Regent: Also, as a young woman realizing for the first time the role the patriarchy plays in my life and choices, it made me feel flat-out crazy. Am I doing this because I want to or because society wants me to? Or am I doing this (other, non-acceptable thing) because I want to, or in order to rebel against society? You can’t win.
It might be useful to become familiar with the concept of Kyriarchy (http://myecdysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/accepting-kyriarchy-not-apologies.html), too.
Thanks, P.Soul. labeled, I understand that I/we may have been misinterpreted–or simply unclear–but I am not really interested in what anyone looks like. I’m interested in why anyone makes the choices she makes, and what that says about where we (as women, feminists, etc.) are vis-a-vis our struggles, both personal and collective, against Patriarchy.
Also something I wanted to add to PhDork’s rant, which I am of course entirely behind: I’ve said it before, but these comments about how one does or does not “feel” oppressed sound off to me. Mainly because oppression is independent of how the oppressed “feels” about it. Power is not a self-help concept, and the escape from its thumb not as easy as self-confidence…
BeckySharper: to me, self-esteem is the feel-good version of self-respect. Self-esteem is the voice in the mirror that says “Go get ‘em, tiger,” whilst self-respect is the value which ensures you don’t harm yourself in the process of going and getting ‘em, so to speak.
Unpossible, you are not crazy. It’s the fucking patriarchy that’s crazy!!!! My early twenties were a huge clusterfuck of confusion and trying to live my life free from patriarchy, capitalism, racism, and all the rest, and yeah, I totally fucking failed most of the time, there is blood all over my hands. But I think if we sort of stay honest with ourselves about the position we are in, the compromises we are making, and their costs, and stay in touch with each other about it, you can usually keep from feeling suicidal over it most days. Maybe my expectations have just dropped as I get older.
Self-worth : empowerment :: self-esteem : empowerful
Unposs, FWIW, I really do think you come closer to “winning” when you stop and examine those weird, uncomfortable moments conscientiously. It’s not like there’s a terminal point at which you’ve finished, anyway. Everyday another battle.
PSoul & PhDork, understood, 100%. Just offering a new (and hopefully at least half-assed self-aware) counterpoint.
Sarah, are you breaking out the Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza? All the Catholic feminists in the house say HEY!!!! oh wait, just me? Right. Carry on.
an aside: I think in the thread we’ve used almost every commonly known “self-______” combination.
LOL I love you JD.
@labeled: we haven’t used “self-righteous” yet! It’s a combination of two of two “good” words to create a “bad” word!
labeled: I think I dig you. Women are constantly being told to look X, and then I barrel in and shake my finger at them for that. It’s like that joke logo that made the rounds a few months back: Feminist Police: Pick Up/Put Down That Lipstick!
@ JD Regent: So, I would say first that I don’t think it is or should be. But then I have to think about why I’m not comfortable with it, the answer being that “it feels like cheating” to use someone’s sexual attraction to me, which I didn’t earn or work for, to get ahead. But then again, how did I “earn” my intelligence? I didn’t, not really. I may have studied in school, but if I didn’t have the potential to begin with, it wouldn’t have mattered. Also, it’s clearly in the best interests of the patriarchy to illegitimized the use of female sexual power (which can itself be seen as an unintended side-effect of sexual objectification).
@BeckySharper: Well, damn. Give it a while – surely someone will wander in with something to say about that.
@ JDR and Unpossible: If we’re talking about job performance here, sexuality is not a qualification for the job, whereas your intellect/education most likely is (depends on your job, I guess). I feel like saying “sexuality is special and different and over here in this box” is problematic, because it relies on a mind/body dichotomy that I think is more harmful than helpful, but I don’t need my tits to teach; I need my brain.
PhDork — yeah I do think there is something to that – obviously there is no right decision to make (regarding lipstick, high heels, whatever) that is free from the taint of patriarchy (how much do you love that imagery) so what the fuck do you expect me to do??? (is how some women feel)
Unpossible — this is exactly how my thinking goes. I “use” my privileges all the time, trading on my race and class to get education, status and BIG $$$$$ (HA HA just kidding. But I could if I wanted to). Why is my sex off limits? Because it will disadvantage other women who because they may not fit patriarchal beauty norms can’t trade on their sex? I had a very close female professor who I am still really tight with and respect a lot who really pushed me to stop feeling shamed by men wanting to sleep with me (in that case it was professors) and start using it to my advantage, but I haven’t totally embraced it yet, but haven’t really come up with a good reason why not to, considering it is operating whether I embrace it or not.
@ labeled: “All you self-righteous feminazi bonerkillers are trying to tell me that I’m oppressed because I like wearing 7″ heels, the latest fashions, and 5 lbs. of makeup! I earned my fake tits, and I did it to feel better about myself, not for any man! The patriarchy can’t get me if I do everything they tell me to do and then claim I wanted to all along, so there!”
How’s that?
@PhDork: I really don’t think I can emphasize enough that I dug your piece (as well as the others mentioned) and don’t disagree with it, at all. But with enough navel-gazing, you start to realize you’re not safe to leave your house, at ALL, without being labeled (see what I did there?) at will by everyone who sees you.
And yeah, ok… while it dances dangerously close to the choosing your choice line, there’s a part of me that wants to say STOP IT. Maybe for right now, it doesn’t matter if my lipstick is just lipstick, because it’s none of your business. Get off of me.
You know?
while i am in this fevered feminism talk, has anybody read Janet Halley’s “Split Decisions — Taking a Break from Feminism?” I would LOVE a little book review on that doozy. I am still really struggling with its insights and challenges.
@ Unpossible: ding, ding, ding!
PhDork — that makes sense to me, but also we use our whole selves in our jobs — our charisma, people skills, etc. play in a lot. I certainly don’t feel like I NEED my sexuality to do my job, but sometimes it oils the grooves (no idea what mixed metaphor I am using here, based on my womanly lack of knowledge about gears, grooves, etc.). If I feel my sexuality “working” for me even without my knowledge or consent or direction, do I have an obligation to stop it? To appear less conventionally attractive? To not be so friendly? To observe professional boundaries? Then I start feeling all hemmed in by the man again.
@Unpossible: You forgot “I choose my choice!”
But we’re only crushing your groove because we’re secretly jealous you’re so much hotter than us.
I now have a new book to (not) read in my (non-existent) spare time.
And labelled, everyone will choose her choice, and my opinion is going to matter to almost no one.
But maybe, if we’ll each be judged every time we engage with the world, *regardless* of what we choose, then why on earth not take the opportunity to tell the P to fuck itself in the ear?
I have read bits and pieces of Halley, JD, and while I think she is an insightful close reader (these brief excepts gave me the impression she doesn’t automatically subscribe to reductive readings of my Catharine (MacKinnon)), I felt like the book was too much about academic debates in which I wonder if people were seriously interested in matters of liberation – I think they just may have been publishing furiously to get tenure.
PHD — I think you might hate it. But I want to know WHY!
I intern for a fashion brand that sell expensive shoes, apparel, and handbags, and I find myself having to not get defensive about fashion related posts. Remind myself that it is not about me personally but rather a larger structure that I am a part of.
@JD:Nothing really wrong with using that power to get what you want but I think it’s one thing to use that power and say it is empowering or feminist. “The masters house can’t be dismantled using the master’s tools” and sexual power is granted by the patriarchy. So one gets what they want but the systematic oppression is still held in place.
Interesting PS. do you feel that way also about say Judith Butler? (sorry to drag old dame Judy into this but I feel that is something I hear a lot about her as well). I think with Halley, she is just interested in other social justice fights around queer rights, for example, and the prison industrial complex and it is interesting to see the ways in which (some conceptions of ) feminism are actually detrimental to her causes.
@ JD Regent: So, I’m a white*/straight*/upper-middle-class/well-educated woman. Which one doesn’t belong? Woman. In all other respects, I’m on the “winning” side of the power divide, so the advantages accorded to me as a result are integrated into the system. I’m almost never confronted with a situation in which I have to decide whether or not to “use” an advantage that I have as, say, an upper-middle class person, because I don’t have to actually do anything for it to happen. It’s the default. Now, when I’m given an opportunity to use my power as a woman, it’s something I have to actively choose.
* half-Asian, not sure if I “pass” or not; pretty much straight, and at least “straight-looking”
Jessi — I definitely see that and am aware of the limits of trading on sex. For example, it only works until a magical, patriarchy-determined age. Therefore I can only use my sexual power in concert with developing myself in other ways so that I can KEEP WORKING and being powerful even if I get fat, ugly, and old. All of which I totally plan on doing!
JDR: I am a giant two-year old…all about WHY!?
Lisa/Jessi (which do you prefer?): Bingo on your 2nd para. I can’t get fully behind the “hate the game, not the playa!” idea. This tiptoes into “blaming the victim” territory, so care is called for, but I’m more inclined to believe that if you’re not part of the solution (for more than yourself), then you’re part of the problem.
You know, since I’m throwin’ around glib soundbites. Ahem.