Recently, at Harpy HQ…
PilgrimSoul: What sets me off on this topic is that today not one, not two, but three separate women, all of whom definitely weigh less than me even when the proportions of their frames are taken into consideration, complained in my presence that they were getting “chubby,” “fat,” and “flabby” and that they “needed to lose weight.” And I felt myself wanting to sink into a hole with each new statement. I understand, as a feminist, that the world is constantly policing all women’s bodies. I further understand that even women who fit some patriarchal measure of beauty – including standards dictating acceptable levels of adipose tissue – can thus nonetheless feel oppressed by body standards.
But as a woman who doesn’t follow the “thou shalt not be fat” commandment, it really kind of annoys me when I hear women who benefit from the privilege of not being alternately invisible and gawked at, who can find clothes that are at least in the realm of flattering their body shapes, who don’t have to worry about men on dating sites having opted out of anyone who isn’t “fit”, complaining about their weight. It drives me into frothy anger, actually, because not only do they not realize how fucking hurtful it is for a 170-pound woman to listen to a 110-pound one call herself “fat,” but because unlike them, my “insecurities” about my weight are not just in my fucking head. There are a million people out there who hate fat people on principle, and they would identify me as one of that class.
One thing to point out: I am what the BMI priesthood would call “overweight,” but I am not, by their standards, obese. I say this only so that people will understand that even I am privileged over so-called obese women, in that I get in just under the wire on sizing usually and don’t have to shop at stores “specially targeted” at my body size.
SarahMC: This is something that burns me up as well. I’ve been asked about my non-existant pregnancy on at least five occassions. I have a pretty small frame, but not a very fit one. I get really depressed about the weight I’ve gained since high school (from which I’ve been a graduate for almost ten years), and the weight I’ve gained since last year. I know intellectually and feminist-ically that numbers don’t matter, but whilst I have an easy time applying a body-loving, fat-accepting philosophy to others, I can’t apply it to myself.
All, and I mean all, of my friends are thinner than I am. They are not all rail-thin, but those who weigh more than I do are a head taller than I am, so their weight is spread over a larger surface. I imagine I sound like a jerk when I express these thoughts publicly, but I am aware that my body doesn’t fit the ideal, and that awareness is especially profound when I’m amongst friends. I am anxious about an upcoming trip to the Caribbean because I have to wear a bathing suit among my boyfriend and some mutual friends. I suppose they may not think about my body as much as I do, but I am jealous of those who throw on a bathing suit without a care. When people grab at a centimeter of their flab in my presence and groan with disgust, I wonder how disgusted they are by my much flabbier body. It’s just insensitive and self-absorbed. I don’t complain about my own body in the presence of women who are larger than I am, because I anticipate that they’d think “bish plz” just like I do when thinner women complain around me. At the same time, all women and girls are encouraged to police their bodies, monitor the scale, and bond re: their respective “flaws.” It’s a sick cycle.
PilgrimSoul: Yeah, the bathing suit thing really resonates with me, and nothing can get me irritated more quickly than a thin person trying to bully me into putting one on. I sometimes think that people who are in the normal body weight range don’t get that there’s a whole other level of anxiety involved. When you tell a normal-range person who is insecure about her body, “you’re crazy,” the conversation can end there. When you say that to someone who is a little outside that range, you seem to forget that everything else in society insists that she is overweight, from the size of her jeans to her “flabby arms”, rounded stomach, etc. I’d just like people who want to be “bikini ready” or bounce back to their “pre-pregnancy shape” would think of other people for whom either of those are not possible, and think about the statement they are making.
Another thing that pops up in these conversations is thin people complaining that they are insulted by slogans like “Real Women Have Curves.” To me, this is something similar to men complaining they are insulted that they are shut out of women’s consciousness-raising groups, or whites complaining that black people aren’t always nice to them. Granted that I don’t love the formulation “real women,” the honest truth is that slogans like that aren’t about thin people. They are about rescuing the un-thin from the vat of depression and self-flagellation that everyone seems to think is our just desserts.
SarahMC: “Real Women Have Curves” bothers me for a different reason. By “curves,” people do not mean the curves of plump thighs or the curves of lovehandles or the curves of big arms. The only acceptable “curves” on a woman are the curves of tits and ass. So “RWHC” tends to be an affirmation to women with hourglass figures rather than boyish figures. The slogan is not that revolutionary.
People with all sorts of bodies feel insecure about those bodies, but those with trim bodies are not subjected to the same cultural shaming and disparagement as those with fat(ter) bodies. “No fat chicks.” There’s no corresponding phrase for extremely thin women. Tyra Banks isn’t pulling stunts to see what it’s like to be a skinny lady in this world; she knows what that’s like and she knows it’s good.
PilgrimSoul: Heh, you are kind of right, curvy does usually mean tiny waist and toned arms, I never thought of it that way.
I never know how to explain our last paragraph to thin women, particularly because I understand fully that they hate their bodies too and this has nothing to do with diminishing whatever pain they feel. But I guess I would be able to feel more solidarity with the “thin” on this issue if they seemed as concerned about the pain of “actually fat” women as they were about body dysmorphia and eating disorders.
@Becky: I absolutly agree. I understand that fatter bodies get a lot of cultural shaming, and it is easier for me to walk down the street as a thin woman than it is for a larger woman.
I think this is just a sensitive issue with me because I get snarked on from both sides, so I just wanted to reinforce the point that thin women aren’t the enemy here, it is this idea that women must be a certian size and shape.
Maybe look at it in terms of sex, Kivrin: Many men in this world are insecure. But their status as men privileges them above women, no matter how they feel about themselves personally.
@SarahMC: Oops, I thought PS meant “this is not about an overweight person feeling ‘insecure.’” I thought she was trying to imply “this is about an overweight person feeling _______” — something else. I think I misinterpreted her wording.
“I think the point that other women also feel bad about their bodies has been adequately made. I don’t think that either SarahMC or I started off on a misunderstanding of that. What I do think it would be nice to hear is a recognition that thin privilege exists, whether it takes the form of comfort in bathing suits or not.”
Thin privilege absolutely exists. Just like “pretty” privilege exists. People who conform to our society’s definition of “ideal” have “it” “easier” in so so many ways.
“thin women aren’t the enemy here, it is this idea that women must be a certian size and shape.”
Absolutely. And I don’t think PSoul or I view thin women as the enemy. Our society is seriously fucked up and cruel and bigoted. Asking that a group of people recognize their privilege =/= casting them as the enemy. We all know who the enemy is. But feminism is not just about equality between men and women; it’s about equality among women.
Okay, I held out on wading into this because it’s a way too sensitive topic for me — BUT this post isn’t about slamming thin people or saying they don’t have to deal with unrealistic standards. I’ll ‘fess up and say I was one of the infamous 3 yesterday who remarked about wanting to lose weight, for reasons having to do with a mix of a long-term ED and trying to come to terms with a post-partum body. But my excuses aren’t really the point here, the point is that such statements (or Twitters or Facebook updates or what have you) do not exist in a vacuum. My two best friends would both be considered overweight by the impossible ideals of American culture, but they are both fucking gorgeous (and I would marry one of them in a second if I could). It kills me that one of them feels like she is a bad person because she is unable to lose weight even when she has tried everything, and at the same time I find myself badmouthing my own body in her presence because there is a real obsession with one’s body promoted by anorexia that I can’t just shut off. But the fact that I have real dysmorphia attached to what I see in the mirror does not mean that what I say about my waist, boobs, etc. does not resonate with someone else and frustrate them. Nobody here is invalidating thin people who have dysmorphia or hate their bodies or whatever. Honestly, as one of the people who inspired this post I’m not at all reading Sarah and Pilgrim’s words as an attack. Reading it as such negates the greater point that is being made, which seems to be that by constantly slamming your looks when you have thin privilege in the presence of those who don’t is not something that advances a productive dialogue about weight standards in our society and further defines our value by what a scale says.
I hope that made sense. Now I am off to see some dinosaur skeletons.
Listen, I understand what SarahMC and PS are trying to get at. I am a thin woman with insecurities about my body but I make a conscious effort to keep that to myself, particularly around other women (all other women) because you never know how that will negatively effect the listener. It IS a sensitivity issue. Sorry but it is. I know all women have insecurities but that doesn’t excuse it.
example: an offhand comment from a cousin when I was in high school about (her own) “fat upper arms” that were about the same size as mine, kept me out of tank tops for like 8-10 years. no lie.
Thanks, funnyface.
And SarahMC is right. I think all we are trying to say is we obscure something relatively important when we make body issues a “universal” – which is that the whole damn thing comes down to a fear of being fat.
I think I speak for both of us when I say we’re proud of how it’s being discussed in this thread.
@sarahofalessergod: damn you for posting that before I saw it AND being more articulate.
When I was a young woman, I weighed 110 and felt horrendously fat. My parents and boyfriends all made comments at various times which reinforced this feeling. I look at those pictures now, and I did not look fat then. However (30 years later), now I really am very substantial (200 lbs or so) yet…I feel less fat then I did then, probably because I don’t allow people (even me) to complain about my weight/shape/size.
@ Carrie P: as much as i agree with what you have said, that is not the message that is given to women, and that is not the ideology that pervades our culture. for those of us who don’t know what it is like to be described by a stranger as “skinny”, there is always a need to lose a few pounds, and if society doesn’t tell us that, then families do, or the opposite sex does.
erm..wait a minute. Doesn’t society also tell us that we should be quiet when the men are talking and get in that kitchen and get married to validate our self worth and have some babies whether we want to or not? Since when are we stuck being slaves to the messages that are given to us?
Also, regardless of degree of fatness, I would say that ALL women are members of the stigmatized group we’re talking about because we’re all subject to the pressure to make our bodies look a certain way. It’s not really about fat vs. not fat, it’s about natural vs. airbrushed ideal.
I’m coming off as way more strident to y’all than I mean to…this is just an issue that has affected my life in a huge way (pun intended) and I feel really strongly about it.
I am a big fat fatty (around 400 lbs at my heaviest) and it has taken me a while to get to this, but honestly, the thing that bugs me about skinny women complaining about being fat is not that they are not fat but that the very act of complaining just buys right into the idea that there is only one right way to look and we should all set about achieving that ideal by whatever means necessary.
Women of any size with body hatred are not my enemies. It’s the hatred that’s the problem, not the women.
@CarrieP: I get what you’re saying. But I think a lot of us here seek not only to buck the system (i.e., NOT become slaves to the messages that are given to us), but also — and perhaps more importantly — to at least discuss CHANGING the system. It’s great to reject the crap messages all of us receive from society, but is that really enough?
I dunno, that’s how I see it, anyway.
I guess the thing that concerns me about this thread is the talking about the need for thin women to not talk about their own body concerns. I am all for the idea of changing the system, but I think it should come in the form of changing HOW we talk about our bodies instead of encouraging certain groups of women to NOT talk about them.
For instance, someone saying “I have gained 20 pounds and it just feels weird on my body and I’m having trouble getting used to it” is not the same thing as saying “I am a giant fat heifer with this extra poundage and I need to lose weight”.
And I’m not saying we have to pretend that fat hatred doesn’t exist in order to change the way we talk about fat. Say a woman is talking about how uncomfortable she feels in her own skin now that she’s gained weight. Maybe next she talks about the anxiety she feels about the pressure that is put on women to conform and how she’s worried that she won’t be as appealing to others because of this construct.
Framing the discussion like that puts the ‘blame’, as it were, back on the shoulders of the unattainable ideal rather than on this woman’s shoulders for not conforming to it. That’s a change I would like to see.
I don’t think my goal is to make thin women shut up about their body issues. Women of all shapes and sizes have body insecurity, which is motivated by the intense fear of being or becoming fat. THAT is the main problem, as I see it. I would like “fat” to cease being an insult. It should be a neutral adjective. But because “fat” is something women know will put them into the unfuckable / unlovable / unworthy / disrespected category, most of us strive to stay out of that category and beat ourselves up when we land in it. My fat doesn’t bother me in a vacuum. I find it comforting to rub my belly. It’s what’s outside the vacuum that needs to change.
But until it changes, I would like for thin women to stop before they claim, to fat women, they know what it’s like to be bodysnarked. Because the poor treatment fat women receive as a result of being fat is nothing like the treatment “too thin” women face.
Hi ladies, I’ve been lurking, but not commenting for awhile and I feel this is the best time to add my two-cents. I have been affectionately called Amazonian, not so affectionately called thunder-thighs (oh, middle school, thanks for all the character-building), bootylicious, curvy, big-boned, and on and on. A man accosted me on the subway last week to thank me for loving my “healthy” body, and not feeling I had to succumb to societal pressure. Back-handed flattery, the best kind.
Anyway, my point is I am what I am. I have always been “healthy.” I will never be a single-digit size, and my skinny jeans are a 12 Long. But, I fucking love my body (I look GOOD in those jeans!). MOST of the time. I don’t however, like having to be the one to console my skinny friends regarding their weight gain. Not because I don’t respect their point of view, not because I don’t understand that all women have skewed body images thanks to ever-present societal judgements. But because it makes me feel extremely awkward, and honestly, concerned about them. My roommate is a size zero. She complains all the time about the fact that she feels like a “giant fatty.” No matter how much I love my own body, how can I not note the difference in it from her own, and wonder what how she sees me if she sees herself as a fatty. She is a friend whose opinion I respect in pretty much every other area of life. It’s just a sensitivity thing and I’ve tried to broach the topic with her, but I think it’s just one of those “walk in another woman’s shoes” (or ass) things. It takes a lot of self-love to feel okay about my curves. And when people within your own safety net, your friends, family, etc. constantly remind you that your body, the body you love, is not normal, it starts to erode that love.
We had a clothing swap at work last week and I didn’t bring in any clothes because I knew they would fit no one… I brought a few purses instead. It was no big deal, just being pragmatic. But a few women took it upon themselves to ask why I didn’t bring any clothes, to which I said (non-chalantly… honestly it didn’t bother me) that I stuck with one-size fits all items. Their response, “oh, it’s okay honey, you have a great body,” was not comforting. I had said nothing about my body, had not fished for a compliment, but the fact that this was where their thoughts immediately went shows how we judge people. Without even realizing we’re doing it. No one meant anything but to be nice, I know. But if you are on the other end of that all day, every day, it can wear you down.
So, thinner people, take note. I understand that weight fluctuations, be they from zero to 2 or 12 to 14 are not fun. We all have our own comfortable weight. But being on the thinner end of the scale is apples and oranges different. And even comments not directed at other women affect how we view ourselves. I honestly don’t discuss my weight ever, for these reasons. I don’t won’t to offend those bigger than me, just as I don’t want thinner people to think I am fishing for the “you aren’t fat” comments, as well as not wanting to trigger thinner women’s own insecurities. Body images are so personal. And usually, much more about what other women think than about what men think.
Dudes have it so much easier. This month’s Vanity Fair puts that in stark contrast: check out the feature spread of Seth Rogen, Paul Rudd, et al imitating the Tom Ford, Knightly, Johanssen cover. Women as object, men as content.
Sorry about the novel.
Thank you, ladies, I needed this slap in the face. I had just posted something on fb about my own insecurities but I immediately took it down. Its easy to get caught up in “I have it bad, too!” but that helps no one, so thank you for the reminder.
CarlyB – you and I appear to be the same person. Hell, I could have written what you just said, it resonated so clearly in my mind… and my life.
I have a size two roommate as well. She wants desperately to be a size zero again. I try to love my body and hers as well so she knows that fat is not bad. Curves are amazing and boobs are fun to dress. I want to be the positive aspect of it for her… but there is only so much you can do…
After all, fat bottomed girls make the rockin world go round.
(In my experiences though, I have to disagree that men have it easier… the men I know just don’t talk about it like women do… )
I want to start by saying that there are men who feel horrible about their bodies…my husband being one of them. He was made fun of as a child as the “fat kid” and still carries that with him today, even though I think he looks great! So just saying. But I do agree there is definitely a wider acceptance level for men in our society.
On skinny girls discussing their “fat”: my best friend was just saying she needs to get down to at least 115lbs (down from her 118lbs) after I was discussing how I have plateaued in my weight loss (so far 250lbs to 186). She starting saying how she knows how hard it is for me because she just can’t lose those pesky pounds; but then went on to saying if she eats better she feels herself shrinking in just 5 days~! I think she meant this as support, but really? Are you kidding me? I am sure she wishes those 3 lbs would just fall off, and I am sure she has negative body image issues like every American woman; but I personally think it was a highly insensitive thing to say to another woman who has struggled with her weight her entire adult life.
I take the bottom line of this post as this: we can all see the size difference among us, so watch it when you open your mouth; even if you don’t think its insulting, you just never know!
I think I’m coming really late to this thread…but having read it all I just wanted to comment on the idea of “Real Women have curves” as a marketing campaign…
I am thin. I can wear whatever clothes I like. I have good body self-esteem in regards to weight (my general paleness and hairiness is another matter) So I am well aware of my thin-privilege.
I HATE the line “real women have curves” and I’m surprised women of all shapes and sizes don’t hate it too. Anything that says “Real woman are like THIS” really gets me…Do we need a slogan in the fat acceptance movement that is so exclusionary? Woman have so often suffered from being told that they are not female enough if they don’t wear makeup, shave their legs, wear heels, sexy clothes etc etc Why should we contribute to this sort of crap?
Real woman are real woman are real woman.
Someone said something about thin people hijacking the thread in posts like this, and I’m afraid of doing this, so I will just quickly address PS’s comment to me and this will be my last post on the topic- promise.
@PS: I don’t think it is demeaning to ask me to be respectful to others, which is part of the reason I made the point that nothing said here was demeaning. I think my comment may be coming from a place of oversensitivity because I get it from both ends. (I really don’t understand how I can be told I’m too fat and too skinny in the same day.)
And if it helps, I absolutely do agree that “skinny” privilege does exist in the white/mainstream culture and is growing in most if not all minority cultures.
Woah-look at all these comments, awesome! SarahMC, I quoted you earlier and made an oft-repeated point about all women hating their bodies BUT the larger point of your post I totally agree with- namely
would like for thin women to stop before they claim, to fat women, they know what it’s like to be bodysnarked . Just like “the patriarchy hurts men too”, yeah, we know it does, but there’s no need to hijack the conversation with your hurt feelings.
In the spirit of contributing to the rationality, however, I don’t think you need to worry about this When people grab at a centimeter of their flab in my presence and groan with disgust, I wonder how disgusted they are by my much flabbier body. Firstly, most women are too preoccupied with their own bodies to be policing each others’- we leave that to men and their defactos, corporations, media and science. Just think about your own experiences. I’m sure you have at some time, complained about your body in the presence of a larger person (we all have) and I bet you weren’t grossed out by that other person’s size. It doesn’t make it good, or normal, or an excuse, but most women hate themselves, not each other.
You know what? Reading this article, I realized something. No clothing size is ever going to be good enough for me. No number on the scale will ever be low enough. The problem is in my head.
I’m a muscular, solidly built girl and am just a tad on the short side at 5’5″. In recent years I’ve been both fifteen pounds heavier than I currently am and ten pounds lighter. And I was not happy at either of those weights! Every day I think to myself that I need to eat better, lose weight, do better, be a better person (as if the flab on my body was a moral failing). Every day I berate myself for having big thighs. It doesn’t matter what size I am. At the moment I’m mostly wearing 4′s and the occasional 6, but it’s not enough. I catch myself thinking: 15 years ago this size 4 was a size 8, so really you should be trying for a size 2, etc. Dude — a size 4! There are like, 2 sizes below a size 4. When will I be small enough for myself?
Screw it. It will never be enough. This is the first day I’m going to make an effort to just let it go.
have.at.it: Fuck yeah. Good for you, missus. Who’s next?
Yes yes!! Awesome epiphany have.at.it!
…and that is what makes being a fat activist worth it: the moment when someone really realizes that they don’t have to fit in the box, that who they are right now is good enough. Hell yeah.
I hear you, larger-than-me ladies, and whenever I find myself thinking “I’m so fat” (which I try not to ever say out loud) I realize that the problem is not my weight or my belly flab, but all the fucked-up cultural phenomena that make me, of all people, feel fat.
I’ll see a flat-bellied teenager at the pool looking great in her bikini and think, damn, if only I had a body like that. And I realize that there is probably somebody who looks at me and thinks the same thing (and that the teenager probably looks at a photoshopped picture of a skinner person) and so on because every woman in the world feels inadequate. Who was it who said that “every woman has an eating disorder”?
Sometimes, I worry that fat women and skinny women can never be friends because of these issues.
I’ve massively improved my body image by being more combative with external influences (including people I love) and gentler with myself. You can’t always say it out loud, your target may not even be a human being but you can always say it to yourself in your head.
I’m 5’4″ and a UK size 16 and I LOVE wearing bikinis on the beach. I find them incredibly comfortable. Regarding anyone who MIGHT be judging me in this situation, I think ‘They have something more interesting to think about’ or if I think someone is actually does judging me: ‘They can fuck off. Their problems are not my problems’.
May, your comment makes me sad. I would hate to think that I could only be friends with people who happened to be the same body type as me.
I am doing my phd in gender studies and this week we had a phd party with some faculty members and many students. The shock was provided by the focus of many discussions on being overweight and how to lose weight. Really annoying. A proffessor teaching “sexuality/gender intersections” was keep telling me that I’m getting fat and how big my belly is. Another proffessor teaching “queer theory” was keep talking about her 30 days diet only with juices. I thought she was very sick when I first saw her. And they are both skinny. And I am skinny. Another 3rd year PhD was complaining about his good shape when he was going to the gym and how depressed he is of all this fat on his body. 2 days after I am still pissed on this fatphobic chitchat, but I also miss appetite for any type of food and stare at my belly without being aware what i’m doing. Oh, patriarchy works in such mysterious ways…
Glad to see your optimism
@May That is definitely not the answer. I love my skinny friends, and 99.9 % of the time it is never an issue. I think we all mutually respect and really admire one another, and find eachother beautiful, each in her own way. I don’t mind that they are skinnier than me. Even in bikini season. I know that I bring something completely different to the table. Not a one of them would ever tell me to lose weight, I know this. Just as I would never tell them to gain it.
The point is just to be sensitive to these weight issues, I think around all women… not just those bigger than you. Sadly, we clearly all have these internal dialogues about body image, and when one of those dialogues is voiced aloud, it can set off a chain of self-judgement, whether intended or not.
And re: men. I’m sorry, I really never meant to imply that men don’t have body issues. But, they do operate within a very different (note: not non-existent) standard of acceptable body types. If you haven’t seen this month’s VF, I really recommend checking it out. It is like a women’s studies 101 primer. Men comedians: can be fat, ugly, crazy, scary, but it’s okay, because we know these guys are charming and witty and therefore adorable. Women comedians: are glossy and blonde and skinny and sexy, oh yeah, and funny. We judge men and women very differently, and it is so pervasive, that we rarely notice it. Ok, done with that.
And btw, thank you SarahMC and PilgrimSoul for this thread. Clearly it resonated with me and provoked a discussion that I have been bottling up for awhile. This site kicks ass.
From a 42 year old fat mom perspective… the “skinny” girls are fat too! At 18 & 118lbs I felt fat… now 240lbs I am fat. The behaviors and feelings are the same: tug the shirt, cover the arms, worry about fat showing, worry what people are thinking/saying. It’s exhausting! and it’s not about anyone else but me.
After years of not wanting to go anywhere my partner finally said, “no one who knows you cares about your fat, they’re looking at your eyes and smile, your smile lights up the room, you’re sense of humor makes everyone feel at ease.” From that point on I decided to be me… 240lbs is too much weight for my frame, my health, and my clothing choices but it’s not too much weight to be seen in public, to be the person I am regardless of the poundage. I let people see ME. Eventually they do or I recognize the assholes who won’t. I stopped looking to strangers for how I feel about myself; it’s not an accurate look.
I NEVER comment about my body (I have children listening) and always just sympathize with the women who do (regardless of their size). On, one occasion I lifted up my shirt and said, “fat?! that’s not fat… this is fat! now can we just eat brunch in peace”.
it’s all about choices, from how we feel, to what we project, to what we put in our mouths. It’s no one else’s business.
Plum-Pie has it right… be gentler. Really, the majority of things said are about the speaker. I’m not sure why my fat makes others nervous/disgusted/embarrassed but I’m no longer taking responsibility for their reactions.
have.at.it: Rock on.
Okay, harpies: I generally try not to discuss weight at all. I’ve had ED-type issues in the past that were not helped by other thin people talking about how they had to start dieting to get skinnier and that sort of thing. I might bring it up in an ED thread or it might come up because I dropped a lot of weight without noticing while I was seriously depressed, but I try to avoid the topic altogether. I think this makes me weird, but it works for me on a daily basis.
I shop in normal stores. They almost always have my size. Jeans are a bitch to find, but I’ve realized that no woman actually has an easy time finding jeans (but if there is one, perhaps she is also the elusive woman who loves putting on bikinis). My body gets me where I need to go. I have my insecurities, but I try to keep them to myself because I don’t want anyone else to ever feel like I used to feel every day, and I know my life is relatively easy.
So… I do my best in a way that works for me, but it might not work for everyone. I know I’m privileged, both by being thin (for now) AND by the fact that I make it through at least half of my days without thinking about my weight… so it’s relatively easy for me not to talk about it. But I’ve realized because of this thread that one thing I was not doing was listening to other people’s complaints and addressing them in depth or with sympathy. Like, if someone said to me, “I have so much belly fat,” I’d basically dismiss it–tell her she’s hot, change the subject–for my own sanity.
How can I respond better if someone says something like that to me? I mean, I could talk about patriarchy/unrealistic standards/anxiety if I had a couple of hours with the person, but what if that’s not the case?
Sh, “I’m no longer taking responsibility for their reactions” is my new motto. Rah!
DM, maybe a “Yeah, and?”
Maybe that will shock her out of her literal navel-gazing and/or put an end to her fishing (for compliments) expedition.
I’m VERY late to the party, but I just wanted to say that I love this post and this comment thread. Fat is treated like such a dirty word in our society, and it needs to stop. Fat IS a feminist issue, whatever your size.
Wow, what a great post and comments. As a person of larger stature, I think the issue isn’t “fat v. thin” but instead how we as women can take back our bodies. I have weight and body issues, but I can’t honestly name a woman that doesn’t. Isn’t that the bigger problem? I understand the need for sensitivity – believe me, my mother and sister are what I lovingly call “skinny bitches” because they got the great skinny genes and I got all the fat ones from the family -but now I am thinking that I shouldn’t be saying that either. It demeans us both. Sure, they’re skinnier than me, but that doesn’t come without it’s issues as well. My sister is so paranoid about gaining weight that she rigidly monitors herself. Sure, she’s skinny and I’m jealous of her ability to shop in mainstream stores, but I would never want to self-monitor as strictly as she does. My mom has been super skinny all her life, and has been teased for it and always asked “Why don’t you put on a few pounds?” (as if it would have been that simple, believe me she tried). So honestly, I think both ends of the spectrum come with their own set of issues. So we should all be sensitive to each other, and work together to reclaim our bodies and bring down anything that tries to tell us that a woman is X. We should define what X is for ourselves, and not anyone else.
(Of course having said that, it’s not like I won’t get up tomorrow and still wish I could magically lose 50 pounds. But, maybe realizing that I should define X for myself is half the battle…)
I just love you guys so much. So many articles contain kernels of “I TOTALLY feel that way, and all my friends think I’m nuts.” THANK YOU. Again.
I weigh 125 pounds and my BMI is 22. My best friend weighs 90 and she’s five inches taller than I am (she’s not anorexic, just has a high metabolism). When I go out alone or with other friends, I attract my fair share of male attention (which, disgustingly, makes me feel good about myself, and I know that’s messed up and I’m in the process of getting over it – please don’t judge me too harshly). When I go out with her, nothing, and it makes me feel like shit. I start to resent her for it, which is stupid and just wrong.
The thing is, guys flock to thin women, and I think it’s because they seem more pliable. All the guys my best friend goes out with are really, really fucking controlling – they think of her as a child/sex object (what a fucked-up combination) because of her weight, and all of them seem to think she’s more promiscuous than heavier women. They can literally throw her around. I hate how thin women are perceived (by both men and women) as forever-adolescent/easy pickings, medium-sized women are perceived as ball-busters, and fat women are perceived as unfeminine/lazy. I hate how anybody gives a shit about anybody else’s body, and how it’s okay to tell women to “fix” things that they may actually like about themselves.
I’m not really sure what the point of this comment is. I’m just angry.
@ellie Make sure you’re not judging yourself too harshly either, lady.
Wow. I just spent more time than I really have taking all of this in. I’m so happy to see this discussion happening here. I have always hated seeing thin girls bash their bodies in front of me, for all of the same reasons pointed out by everyone else here, but I was always also very uncomfortable with my fat relatives’ response, which often included “skinny bitch” under their breath. I got that they were just trying to even the score, make themselves feel better, whatever, but it never sat right with me, because I knew that, regardless of whether the thin body-basher was implicitly and consciously judging our fatness, or really just oblivious to how her comments might make us feel, she honestly did feel that way about herself. I didn’t have the words for a long time to describe just what was wrong, and I was too busy feeling bad about myself for being a FATTY to really think it all through, but the past few years of dialogue in the fatosphere finally brought me to the point where it no longer makes me angry, it makes me sad. To think that I feel better about the 300+ pounds I display with no apology than she does about the extra six pounds she never had to haul around before makes me sad for her, and it really doesn’t hurt my feelings at all anymore.
A coworker’s beautiful daughter was recently hospitalized with anorexia. For several years, I wondered why this basically friendly girl treated me so coolly every time she came around, and now I get it: I’m her worst nightmare. Looking at me terrifies her, makes her even more crazy about food and fat and her own body. She pretty much admitted that fact to her mother. And there’s no room in that awful story for my feelings to be hurt — especially since I am the keeper of my own body image these days — when this beautiful girl is suffering so much. My mom would have no pity for the anorexic girl, because she has the privilege of being thin, and treated with more regard by mainstream society. But if I had to choose between being able to love and accept myself, no matter what everyone else around me thinks, or being loved and celebrated by the rest of the world but being a prisoner of my own self-hatred, well, I would rather be me than that poor girl. Her experience doesn’t diminish mine, and mine does not diminish hers. We’re both fighting the same enemy.
I think there are two sides to the story though; I think thin women do need to recognize how their body bashing might affect the bigger women around them — be conscious, just like white people ought to be conscious of their privilege, and men ought to be conscious of theirs. But I also think that people like me, who have been fortunate enough to step out of the crazy cycle for long enough to understand it and develop the skills to combat it, have a responsibility toward all women to share that power with them. Because we ARE all fighting the same enemy. Some of the best tools I have gained as a feminist were given to me by women of color, whose double burden of being not white and not male has made them stronger. Rather than be angry with me for unknowingly lamenting my privileged position, or resenting me for having it, they opened my eyes to it, and also shared their strength with me. I feel like, as a bigger woman who is not only fighting against the antifeminist body image propaganda that is generalized to all women, but also the specialized version for fat women, I have been able to become stronger exactly because of my double burden, and I feel like that is a gift I can share with thin women who aren’t where I am yet. My response, when I have the time for it, is usually a mini-lecture on loving yourself how you are and how it’s much easier to care for someone you love, and when I don’t have the time, I tend to say something along the lines of “hearing women bash their bodies makes me sad. I wish we all would celebrate our bodies instead, because they’re all pretty amazing.” Admittedly, I don’t always have the positive energy flowing strong enough to respond like that, but it’s something I practice when I can.
Wow–I’m sorry I came to this thread so late. What a thought-provoking discussion.
Generally, we should all be sensitive to each other–eating disorders come in all shapes and sizes, after all. And hey, if someone inadvertently hurts you, let them know, politely. Perhaps they just need to be made aware of the implications of what they are saying (which is kinda the point of the article, non?).
My other thought, too, is that when confronted with another woman complaining about her “fat”, perhaps ask her why it bothers her. Perhaps she hasn’t even acknowledged that there is a reason. Facing the truth of one’s fears is powerful, and can be life-changing.
(Oh, and Windy? Right. On.)