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	<title>Comments on: Feminist Food For Thought: Andrea Dworkin</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: ferawle</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-8079</link>
		<dc:creator>ferawle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 21:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-8079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my theorizing gender prof actually also tried to get me to believe dworkin had actually said that.. that all intercourse is rape. I got angry. It seems we&#039;re all buying into right-wing backlashes against feminism... dworkin, I find, is radical - yet there is stuff that&#039;s off the hook, really - I mean, what am I supposed to DO with Butler&#039;s subversive bodily acts? Honestly? Get raped and killed for not performing my gender (like trans persons are)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my theorizing gender prof actually also tried to get me to believe dworkin had actually said that.. that all intercourse is rape. I got angry. It seems we&#8217;re all buying into right-wing backlashes against feminism&#8230; dworkin, I find, is radical &#8211; yet there is stuff that&#8217;s off the hook, really &#8211; I mean, what am I supposed to DO with Butler&#8217;s subversive bodily acts? Honestly? Get raped and killed for not performing my gender (like trans persons are)?</p>
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		<title>By: parallel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>parallel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It’s sad that she’s considered such a taboo member of the feminist movement. &lt;/i&gt;

Sad ? It&#039;s f*cking outrageous. 

And it&#039;s also very deliberate.

Wonder why a piece like this can be written 26 YEARS AGO, and still nothing has changed, that this piece applies perfectly today ? Why do people continue to either ignore or tell lies about women like Dworkin and her writing ? 

Who benefits ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s sad that she’s considered such a taboo member of the feminist movement. </i></p>
<p>Sad ? It&#8217;s f*cking outrageous. </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s also very deliberate.</p>
<p>Wonder why a piece like this can be written 26 YEARS AGO, and still nothing has changed, that this piece applies perfectly today ? Why do people continue to either ignore or tell lies about women like Dworkin and her writing ? </p>
<p>Who benefits ?</p>
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		<title>By: kithkin</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5671</link>
		<dc:creator>kithkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Cimorene:  I wouldn&#039;t sweat it about your MaleFriend. I know I&#039;m just an Internet stranger, but for what it&#039;s worth: he did the diplomatic thing. It wasn&#039;t the righteous thing but he (a) opted out of the event and (b) he decided to refrain from making the event about him and kept the focus on the groom. As utterly repulsive a &quot;steak and tits&quot; party may be (and it IS. Eugh.), a bachelor party is an event that has a star. Like a birthday party. A public righteous email would have been a better thing to do, perhaps, but it would likely have had little effect other than to alienate friends just before the wedding. I doubt it would change any hearts or minds, especially given that this is part of a bigger Wedding Industrial Complex and not just some Saturday night. It sounds like you&#039;ve got a pretty great MaleFriend, is I guess what I&#039;m saying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cimorene:  I wouldn&#8217;t sweat it about your MaleFriend. I know I&#8217;m just an Internet stranger, but for what it&#8217;s worth: he did the diplomatic thing. It wasn&#8217;t the righteous thing but he (a) opted out of the event and (b) he decided to refrain from making the event about him and kept the focus on the groom. As utterly repulsive a &#8220;steak and tits&#8221; party may be (and it IS. Eugh.), a bachelor party is an event that has a star. Like a birthday party. A public righteous email would have been a better thing to do, perhaps, but it would likely have had little effect other than to alienate friends just before the wedding. I doubt it would change any hearts or minds, especially given that this is part of a bigger Wedding Industrial Complex and not just some Saturday night. It sounds like you&#8217;ve got a pretty great MaleFriend, is I guess what I&#8217;m saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Cimorene</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5668</link>
		<dc:creator>Cimorene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love this essay. I love Andrea Dworkin. I just took a facebook quiz thing and it turns out that Andrea Dworking is the &quot;Historical Feminist I&#039;m  Most Like!&quot;  Which is nice for me.  

And this?  &quot;&lt;i&gt;Do you remember pictures that you’ve seen of European cities during the plague, when there were wheelbarrows that would go along and people would just pick up corpses and throw them in? Well, that is what it is like knowing about rape. Piles and piles and piles of bodies that have whole lives and human names and human faces.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

This is so true.  It&#039;s hard for me to explain to people who presumably understand what it&#039;s like--why I get so angry so quickly, why I won&#039;t stop talking about it after everyone else has moved on, why I see rape in commercials and in magazine ads and in conversation.  It&#039;s just that in my mind are piles and piles of bodies of women who have been raped. And I&#039;ve never even been sexually assaulted, but it&#039;s like--knowing about it as a woman, knowing women, knowing how many women, it&#039;s wheelbarrows-ful.  And my MaleFriend, who is the best manperson I&#039;ve ever met, and who is super supportive and talks to me about feminism and is super radical, still doesn&#039;t have the visceral understanding of the sheer number of women.  It&#039;s sad.

Actually I am going to have to rethink this relationship.  His best friend is getting married, and when all the men in the wedding were talking about where to go for the bachelor party, my partner was like, &quot;I won&#039;t go to strip clubs, but I do like steak. But, strip clubs make me uncomfortable so I won&#039;t go to one.&quot;  Then last night he got an email from his friends that said that they were going to a strip club, and he was like &quot;WTF!&quot; to me, but then replied to the email that he wouldn&#039;t be in town until after the party so he couldn&#039;t go.  He didn&#039;t say anything about the problems inherent in consuming women&#039;s bodies.  It has conflicted me. 

(Sample response to the original email, replied-to-all: &quot;I&#039;m up for steak and tits.&quot;  As if I needed to be reminded of how easy and casual it is for men to butcher and consume women&#039;s bodies, like we&#039;re steak made to be sliced apart fired up and ingested, to make the Men Folk Stronger and Manlier.)

God now I want to go lie down and cry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this essay. I love Andrea Dworkin. I just took a facebook quiz thing and it turns out that Andrea Dworking is the &#8220;Historical Feminist I&#8217;m  Most Like!&#8221;  Which is nice for me.  </p>
<p>And this?  &#8220;<i>Do you remember pictures that you’ve seen of European cities during the plague, when there were wheelbarrows that would go along and people would just pick up corpses and throw them in? Well, that is what it is like knowing about rape. Piles and piles and piles of bodies that have whole lives and human names and human faces.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>This is so true.  It&#8217;s hard for me to explain to people who presumably understand what it&#8217;s like&#8211;why I get so angry so quickly, why I won&#8217;t stop talking about it after everyone else has moved on, why I see rape in commercials and in magazine ads and in conversation.  It&#8217;s just that in my mind are piles and piles of bodies of women who have been raped. And I&#8217;ve never even been sexually assaulted, but it&#8217;s like&#8211;knowing about it as a woman, knowing women, knowing how many women, it&#8217;s wheelbarrows-ful.  And my MaleFriend, who is the best manperson I&#8217;ve ever met, and who is super supportive and talks to me about feminism and is super radical, still doesn&#8217;t have the visceral understanding of the sheer number of women.  It&#8217;s sad.</p>
<p>Actually I am going to have to rethink this relationship.  His best friend is getting married, and when all the men in the wedding were talking about where to go for the bachelor party, my partner was like, &#8220;I won&#8217;t go to strip clubs, but I do like steak. But, strip clubs make me uncomfortable so I won&#8217;t go to one.&#8221;  Then last night he got an email from his friends that said that they were going to a strip club, and he was like &#8220;WTF!&#8221; to me, but then replied to the email that he wouldn&#8217;t be in town until after the party so he couldn&#8217;t go.  He didn&#8217;t say anything about the problems inherent in consuming women&#8217;s bodies.  It has conflicted me. </p>
<p>(Sample response to the original email, replied-to-all: &#8220;I&#8217;m up for steak and tits.&#8221;  As if I needed to be reminded of how easy and casual it is for men to butcher and consume women&#8217;s bodies, like we&#8217;re steak made to be sliced apart fired up and ingested, to make the Men Folk Stronger and Manlier.)</p>
<p>God now I want to go lie down and cry.</p>
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		<title>By: Spicy</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5663</link>
		<dc:creator>Spicy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This speech (which I firat came across in 1989) changed my life. The title of this speech is @I want a 24 hour truce without rape&#039; and concludes like this:

&lt;i&gt;As a feminist, I carry the rape of all the women I&#039;ve talked to over the past ten years personally with me. As a woman, I carry my own rape with me. Do you remember pictures that you&#039;ve seen of European cities during the plague, when there were wheelbarrows that would go along and people would just pick up corpses and throw them in? Well, that is what it is like knowing about rape. Piles and piles and piles of bodies that have whole lives and human names and human faces.

I speak for many feminists, not only myself, when I tell you that I am tired of what I know and sad beyond any words I have about what has already been done to women up to this point, now, up to 2:24 p.m. on this day, here in this place.

And I want one day of respite, one day off, one day in which no new bodies are piled up, one day in which no new agony is added to the old, and I am asking you to give it to me. And how could I ask you for less--it is so little. And how could you offer me less: it is so little. Even in wars, there are days of truce. Go and organize a truce. Stop your side for one day. I want a twenty-four-hour truce during which there is no rape.

I dare you to try it. I demand that you try it. I don&#039;t mind begging you to try it. What else could you possibly be here to do? What else could this movement possibly mean? What else could matter so much? 

And on that day, that day of truce, that day when not one woman is raped, we will begin the real practice of equality, because we can&#039;t begin it before that day. Before that day it means nothing because it is nothing: it is not real; it is not true. But on that day it becomes real. And then, instead of rape we will for the first time in our lives--both men and women--begin to experience freedom. If you have a conception of freedom that includes the existence of rape, you are wrong. You cannot change what you say you want to change. For myself, I want to experience just one day of real freedom before I die. I leave you here to do that for me and for the women whom you say you love. &lt;/i&gt;

I cried when I read this because I had never before realised how much the patriarchy had colonised my mind to the point where the very concept of a 24 hour truce - sheesh - 24 hours! - had never occurred to me as a possibility. Andrea taught me daring and imagination in my feminist activism and for that I will be forever grateful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This speech (which I firat came across in 1989) changed my life. The title of this speech is @I want a 24 hour truce without rape&#8217; and concludes like this:</p>
<p><i>As a feminist, I carry the rape of all the women I&#8217;ve talked to over the past ten years personally with me. As a woman, I carry my own rape with me. Do you remember pictures that you&#8217;ve seen of European cities during the plague, when there were wheelbarrows that would go along and people would just pick up corpses and throw them in? Well, that is what it is like knowing about rape. Piles and piles and piles of bodies that have whole lives and human names and human faces.</p>
<p>I speak for many feminists, not only myself, when I tell you that I am tired of what I know and sad beyond any words I have about what has already been done to women up to this point, now, up to 2:24 p.m. on this day, here in this place.</p>
<p>And I want one day of respite, one day off, one day in which no new bodies are piled up, one day in which no new agony is added to the old, and I am asking you to give it to me. And how could I ask you for less&#8211;it is so little. And how could you offer me less: it is so little. Even in wars, there are days of truce. Go and organize a truce. Stop your side for one day. I want a twenty-four-hour truce during which there is no rape.</p>
<p>I dare you to try it. I demand that you try it. I don&#8217;t mind begging you to try it. What else could you possibly be here to do? What else could this movement possibly mean? What else could matter so much? </p>
<p>And on that day, that day of truce, that day when not one woman is raped, we will begin the real practice of equality, because we can&#8217;t begin it before that day. Before that day it means nothing because it is nothing: it is not real; it is not true. But on that day it becomes real. And then, instead of rape we will for the first time in our lives&#8211;both men and women&#8211;begin to experience freedom. If you have a conception of freedom that includes the existence of rape, you are wrong. You cannot change what you say you want to change. For myself, I want to experience just one day of real freedom before I die. I leave you here to do that for me and for the women whom you say you love. </i></p>
<p>I cried when I read this because I had never before realised how much the patriarchy had colonised my mind to the point where the very concept of a 24 hour truce &#8211; sheesh &#8211; 24 hours! &#8211; had never occurred to me as a possibility. Andrea taught me daring and imagination in my feminist activism and for that I will be forever grateful.</p>
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		<title>By: amanda/notmandy</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5628</link>
		<dc:creator>amanda/notmandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This hits home for me right now after a friend on twitter made comment about the last episode of Damages and how much he loved watching a dude (Kendrick) beat up a prostitute (or “ho” as the friend put it). It pissed me off, but I didn’t respond because I felt weird about a public call out like that. Which is silly given that he felt totally ok with making a comment like that to all of his twitter friends, obvs. It’s a small thing–a twitter comment–but for whatever reason I find it harder to call that sort of online thing out compared to something from a face to face conversation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This hits home for me right now after a friend on twitter made comment about the last episode of Damages and how much he loved watching a dude (Kendrick) beat up a prostitute (or “ho” as the friend put it). It pissed me off, but I didn’t respond because I felt weird about a public call out like that. Which is silly given that he felt totally ok with making a comment like that to all of his twitter friends, obvs. It’s a small thing–a twitter comment–but for whatever reason I find it harder to call that sort of online thing out compared to something from a face to face conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: niemaodpowiedzi</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5622</link>
		<dc:creator>niemaodpowiedzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a great post, PS. But I want to comment on your preface (which was awesome).

&lt;i&gt;Here is what I would say to those of you who immediately experience a shiver on hearing the name of the woman who allegedly said all intercourse was rape (n.b.: she said no such thing): read Dworkin before you dismiss her.  You may not like everything she has to say.  But she does not say what most people assume she does.
&lt;/i&gt;

My fucking philosophy teacher used that misquote of Dworkin (and he threw Mackinnon in there too) while talking about radical feminism. I haven&#039;t read much of either of them (certainly not enough to feel comfortable correcting him!), but I knew enough to catch that it was, in fact, a misquote. I was pissed, and when I&#039;m angry, I very quietly boil over. So the entire class, encouraged by the professor, completely dismissed the whole of radical feminism based on utter bullshit. Most frustrating, to say the least.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great post, PS. But I want to comment on your preface (which was awesome).</p>
<p><i>Here is what I would say to those of you who immediately experience a shiver on hearing the name of the woman who allegedly said all intercourse was rape (n.b.: she said no such thing): read Dworkin before you dismiss her.  You may not like everything she has to say.  But she does not say what most people assume she does.<br />
</i></p>
<p>My fucking philosophy teacher used that misquote of Dworkin (and he threw Mackinnon in there too) while talking about radical feminism. I haven&#8217;t read much of either of them (certainly not enough to feel comfortable correcting him!), but I knew enough to catch that it was, in fact, a misquote. I was pissed, and when I&#8217;m angry, I very quietly boil over. So the entire class, encouraged by the professor, completely dismissed the whole of radical feminism based on utter bullshit. Most frustrating, to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin R</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5620</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And the problem is that you think it’s out there: and it’s not out there. It’s in you. The pimps and the warmongers speak for you. Rape and war are not so different. And what the pimps and the warmongers do is that they make you so proud of being men who can get it up and give it hard.&quot;

That&#039;s a quote I want to remember.

&quot;When I say I’m gonna twist your dick ’til it snaps what I mean is I’m gonna lovingly stroke it ’til you come.&quot;

That&#039;s a quote I also want to remember, but for different reasons...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And the problem is that you think it’s out there: and it’s not out there. It’s in you. The pimps and the warmongers speak for you. Rape and war are not so different. And what the pimps and the warmongers do is that they make you so proud of being men who can get it up and give it hard.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a quote I want to remember.</p>
<p>&#8220;When I say I’m gonna twist your dick ’til it snaps what I mean is I’m gonna lovingly stroke it ’til you come.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a quote I also want to remember, but for different reasons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Spark</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5616</link>
		<dc:creator>Spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Google tells me there is/was a group called Real Men that functioned up until at least 1998, based in Boston. The founder, Jackson Katz, now runs MVP Strategies, which teaches violence prevention to men and boys.  

The Ta-Nehisi Coates thread is distressing. How can people deny the violence inherent in the statement &quot;break your back,&quot; even if they still want to defend it as a metaphor? Also, this: &quot;I guess it&#039;s possible that we&#039;re socialized in certain terrible ways about sex.&quot; Really, could it be possible, really?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google tells me there is/was a group called Real Men that functioned up until at least 1998, based in Boston. The founder, Jackson Katz, now runs MVP Strategies, which teaches violence prevention to men and boys.  </p>
<p>The Ta-Nehisi Coates thread is distressing. How can people deny the violence inherent in the statement &#8220;break your back,&#8221; even if they still want to defend it as a metaphor? Also, this: &#8220;I guess it&#8217;s possible that we&#8217;re socialized in certain terrible ways about sex.&#8221; Really, could it be possible, really?</p>
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		<title>By: Pilgrim Soul</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/08/feminist-food-for-thought-andrea-dworkin/comment-page-1/#comment-5612</link>
		<dc:creator>Pilgrim Soul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4416#comment-5612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spark, I can&#039;t find the link now, but there was one recently in Chicago.  However, objects in the mirror are sometimes further than they appear, if you catch my drift, given that many men seem to think the most pressing question for inquiry about sexism is &quot;how can feminists quit hurting men&#039;s feelings?&quot;

Dworkin herself was threatened by a few men at this conference, IIRC.

Also, ladies, keep in mind that this speech was made 26 YEARS ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spark, I can&#8217;t find the link now, but there was one recently in Chicago.  However, objects in the mirror are sometimes further than they appear, if you catch my drift, given that many men seem to think the most pressing question for inquiry about sexism is &#8220;how can feminists quit hurting men&#8217;s feelings?&#8221;</p>
<p>Dworkin herself was threatened by a few men at this conference, IIRC.</p>
<p>Also, ladies, keep in mind that this speech was made 26 YEARS ago.</p>
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