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	<title>Comments on: So, yeah, what about the menz?</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Hill Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-6049</link>
		<dc:creator>Hill Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-6049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;But my question remains: what does one actually DO to prove this “real man” stuff? Punch people? Get a job that makes you sweat? Write your name in the snow?&lt;/i&gt;

Manhood, defining manhood, and proving manhood are different depending on the penis-holder in question&#039;s race and class.  So for me as young Black man with professional, college-educated, and married parents who lived in the &#039;burbs, defining my manhood meant something different than it did to a young Black man with parents who are divorced, work in blue collar jobs, and lives in a rural area and basically any boy who&#039;s race/class background differed from my own.  

WHO you are attempting to prove your manhood to also varies, in my case it was my Father and other men in my family who I felt like I had to prove my manhood to.  For boys that don&#039;t grow up with a man (it could be a Father or Step-Father or members of your extended family like uncles, grandfathers, or older male cousins) in their home or a strong connection to their Fathers may be attempting to prove their manhood to other boys or just older males they know.  It could be someone with a positive influence on a boy&#039;s life like a sports coach, teacher, or employer or someone less positive like a gang or dopey guys hanging out in front of a bodega.

Here&#039;s an example from my own life about a fucked up conception of manhood.  I was about 25 and was living with my folks temporarily when I hooked up with a softball team in the sleepy town of Petersburg, VA.  One night we sitting around talking and the topic of who had kids came up,  someone asked me if I had any children and I responded that I did not.  The response was, &quot;What&#039;s the matter with your nuts?&quot;  It was inconceivable to these guys that I considered myself a man and hadn&#039;t produced any offspring.  So someone who grows up with that kind of thinking as a social norm will probably feel the need to try and impregnate a woman so that he can &quot;prove his manhood.&quot;

In my particular case, my &quot;manhood&quot; was established when I spent a Summer digging swimming pools.  It wasn&#039;t just that I had a manual labor job that bestowed the mantel of manhood on me; it was also the fact that I wasn&#039;t making much money, I got my own ass out of bed at 4:15am to make it to work on time, and I refused to quit even when it became clear the situation was no good.  I didn&#039;t complain or whine, I just did what I needed to do until one day when I got home from work at 11pm my Dad told me that it was OK if I quit that particular job.  

Dad told me that he was proud of me and I conducted myself as a MAN in the face of difficult circumstances.  No one had to tell me to get a job or help me get one, I handled business like a mature young man should.  Strangely, as proud a moment as that was for me, one moment in my life that equaled that was one Saturday that Summer when I had got done doing my weekly cleaning of the guest bathroom and my Mom told me that she didn&#039;t need to inspect my work because she knew it was done properly.  There was an accumulation of little things that I did that  
Summer that I showed that I was past being a little kid and my parents were quick to point them out and also in turn tell me the increased privileges and discretion that I was afforded as an adult/Man were balanced by increasing responsibilities to myself and to my family.

Of course once you leave home there&#039;s a whole &#039;nother thing you go through with your peer group of newly minted young men.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But my question remains: what does one actually DO to prove this “real man” stuff? Punch people? Get a job that makes you sweat? Write your name in the snow?</i></p>
<p>Manhood, defining manhood, and proving manhood are different depending on the penis-holder in question&#8217;s race and class.  So for me as young Black man with professional, college-educated, and married parents who lived in the &#8216;burbs, defining my manhood meant something different than it did to a young Black man with parents who are divorced, work in blue collar jobs, and lives in a rural area and basically any boy who&#8217;s race/class background differed from my own.  </p>
<p>WHO you are attempting to prove your manhood to also varies, in my case it was my Father and other men in my family who I felt like I had to prove my manhood to.  For boys that don&#8217;t grow up with a man (it could be a Father or Step-Father or members of your extended family like uncles, grandfathers, or older male cousins) in their home or a strong connection to their Fathers may be attempting to prove their manhood to other boys or just older males they know.  It could be someone with a positive influence on a boy&#8217;s life like a sports coach, teacher, or employer or someone less positive like a gang or dopey guys hanging out in front of a bodega.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an example from my own life about a fucked up conception of manhood.  I was about 25 and was living with my folks temporarily when I hooked up with a softball team in the sleepy town of Petersburg, VA.  One night we sitting around talking and the topic of who had kids came up,  someone asked me if I had any children and I responded that I did not.  The response was, &#8220;What&#8217;s the matter with your nuts?&#8221;  It was inconceivable to these guys that I considered myself a man and hadn&#8217;t produced any offspring.  So someone who grows up with that kind of thinking as a social norm will probably feel the need to try and impregnate a woman so that he can &#8220;prove his manhood.&#8221;</p>
<p>In my particular case, my &#8220;manhood&#8221; was established when I spent a Summer digging swimming pools.  It wasn&#8217;t just that I had a manual labor job that bestowed the mantel of manhood on me; it was also the fact that I wasn&#8217;t making much money, I got my own ass out of bed at 4:15am to make it to work on time, and I refused to quit even when it became clear the situation was no good.  I didn&#8217;t complain or whine, I just did what I needed to do until one day when I got home from work at 11pm my Dad told me that it was OK if I quit that particular job.  </p>
<p>Dad told me that he was proud of me and I conducted myself as a MAN in the face of difficult circumstances.  No one had to tell me to get a job or help me get one, I handled business like a mature young man should.  Strangely, as proud a moment as that was for me, one moment in my life that equaled that was one Saturday that Summer when I had got done doing my weekly cleaning of the guest bathroom and my Mom told me that she didn&#8217;t need to inspect my work because she knew it was done properly.  There was an accumulation of little things that I did that<br />
Summer that I showed that I was past being a little kid and my parents were quick to point them out and also in turn tell me the increased privileges and discretion that I was afforded as an adult/Man were balanced by increasing responsibilities to myself and to my family.</p>
<p>Of course once you leave home there&#8217;s a whole &#8216;nother thing you go through with your peer group of newly minted young men.</p>
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		<title>By: PhDork</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5999</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hill Rat, you took it in the spirit with which it was intended.

But my question remains:  what does one actually DO to prove this &quot;real man&quot; stuff?  Punch people?  Get a job that makes you sweat?  Write your name in the snow?

Because &quot;dressing appropriately&quot; isn&#039;t gender specific.  If I show up in chic black velvet to a swank Xmas party, that doesn&#039;t make me a Man.    That makes me Not an Idiot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hill Rat, you took it in the spirit with which it was intended.</p>
<p>But my question remains:  what does one actually DO to prove this &#8220;real man&#8221; stuff?  Punch people?  Get a job that makes you sweat?  Write your name in the snow?</p>
<p>Because &#8220;dressing appropriately&#8221; isn&#8217;t gender specific.  If I show up in chic black velvet to a swank Xmas party, that doesn&#8217;t make me a Man.    That makes me Not an Idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: Hill Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5914</link>
		<dc:creator>Hill Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;(Where are HillRat and AspEx when &lt;b&gt;you’d actually like them to weigh in?)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

A more sensitive soul than myself might take offense at that, but I choose to believe you&#039;re joking.

&lt;i&gt;how do you prove you’re a REAL MAN? And when can you stop proving it?&lt;/i&gt;

I guess I felt like I needed to prove my manhood to my Dad, but he signed off on it pretty early on so the real test was proving it to myself.  Once you convince yourself that you&#039;re a real man, making the argument to others becomes simultaneously easier and less important.  

However there are still (at least for me) situations where I feel the need to send off signals and markers of manhood.  As I think about it, many of those situations and markers are at least as much about class as they are about gender; such as dressing appropriately for job interviews or deciphering the dress code on invitations to social engagements.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>(Where are HillRat and AspEx when <b>you’d actually like them to weigh in?)</b></i></p>
<p>A more sensitive soul than myself might take offense at that, but I choose to believe you&#8217;re joking.</p>
<p><i>how do you prove you’re a REAL MAN? And when can you stop proving it?</i></p>
<p>I guess I felt like I needed to prove my manhood to my Dad, but he signed off on it pretty early on so the real test was proving it to myself.  Once you convince yourself that you&#8217;re a real man, making the argument to others becomes simultaneously easier and less important.  </p>
<p>However there are still (at least for me) situations where I feel the need to send off signals and markers of manhood.  As I think about it, many of those situations and markers are at least as much about class as they are about gender; such as dressing appropriately for job interviews or deciphering the dress code on invitations to social engagements.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5794</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not surprised. There are many, many male scientists like that (I won&#039;t get into detail, but as a woman in research, as soon as you&#039;re trying to do something more taxing than being a glorified technician, you just can&#039;t win). 
I just wish I could persuade a few girls and women that, yes, your wee little lady-brain is perfectly capable of handling integration and screw-drivers, now get your ass into physics.
I mean, it&#039;s insane. There are lots and lots of women in biology, and plenty in chemistry, but as soon as you&#039;re into something that requires a bit of math or computering, poof! It&#039;s an all-male environment.
It&#039;s just depressing: whether it&#039;s my mother, my grand-mother, my friends, the pupils I had when I was doing private tutoring, the comment-section on Jezebel... They&#039;ve all internalised that &quot;math is too hard!&quot; Math is just logic and rationality. Everybody can do it!
Oh, well, maybe I should just be thankful that nobody ever told me I was stupid, or at least that my parents had sufficient faith in my abilities that I never doubted them either.
Sorry to go on such an off-topping rant like that, but it&#039;s just a big old pet-peeve of mine. Maybe that&#039;s one of the ways we could define real women: a real woman always knows the difference between fact and bull-shit, and always sticks with the former.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not surprised. There are many, many male scientists like that (I won&#8217;t get into detail, but as a woman in research, as soon as you&#8217;re trying to do something more taxing than being a glorified technician, you just can&#8217;t win).<br />
I just wish I could persuade a few girls and women that, yes, your wee little lady-brain is perfectly capable of handling integration and screw-drivers, now get your ass into physics.<br />
I mean, it&#8217;s insane. There are lots and lots of women in biology, and plenty in chemistry, but as soon as you&#8217;re into something that requires a bit of math or computering, poof! It&#8217;s an all-male environment.<br />
It&#8217;s just depressing: whether it&#8217;s my mother, my grand-mother, my friends, the pupils I had when I was doing private tutoring, the comment-section on Jezebel&#8230; They&#8217;ve all internalised that &#8220;math is too hard!&#8221; Math is just logic and rationality. Everybody can do it!<br />
Oh, well, maybe I should just be thankful that nobody ever told me I was stupid, or at least that my parents had sufficient faith in my abilities that I never doubted them either.<br />
Sorry to go on such an off-topping rant like that, but it&#8217;s just a big old pet-peeve of mine. Maybe that&#8217;s one of the ways we could define real women: a real woman always knows the difference between fact and bull-shit, and always sticks with the former.</p>
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		<title>By: PhDork</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5791</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, Marie, Feynman did luuuuuv the laydeez.  (Maybe not so much with the respect though...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Marie, Feynman did luuuuuv the laydeez.  (Maybe not so much with the respect though&#8230;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: May</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5789</link>
		<dc:creator>May</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now I have Flight of the Conchords stuck in my head.

&quot;What man? Who&#039;s a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes, technically I am.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I have Flight of the Conchords stuck in my head.</p>
<p>&#8220;What man? Who&#8217;s a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes, technically I am.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5788</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, PhDork, a REAL woman owns a copy of Richard Feynman&#039;s Lectures on Physics:
http://www.amazon.com/Feynman-Lectures-Physics-including-Feynmans/dp/0805390456/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1239548905&amp;sr=8-2
I mean, the cover is pink.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, PhDork, a REAL woman owns a copy of Richard Feynman&#8217;s Lectures on Physics:<br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Feynman-Lectures-Physics-including-Feynmans/dp/0805390456/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1239548905&#038;sr=8-2" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Feynman-Lectures-Physics-including-Feynmans/dp/0805390456/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1239548905&#038;sr=8-2</a><br />
I mean, the cover is pink.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PhDork</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5787</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Uh-oh, Marie.  I am no longer a REAL woman.  (You lost me at variants of Schrodinger, although I&#039;m pretty good on the other stuff.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh-oh, Marie.  I am no longer a REAL woman.  (You lost me at variants of Schrodinger, although I&#8217;m pretty good on the other stuff.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5786</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A REAL woman:
-knows the difference between the time-dependent and the time-independent form of the Scrödinger equation
-is not afraid of liquid nitrogen
-always wears latex gloves when manipulating chemicals
-doeans&#039;t start crying when her data doesn&#039;t make sense
-thinks puppies and kittens are cute.
There, everything you always wanted to know about being a woman but never dared ask from a perfect stranger on the internet.
You&#039;re welcome and I accept your apology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A REAL woman:<br />
-knows the difference between the time-dependent and the time-independent form of the Scrödinger equation<br />
-is not afraid of liquid nitrogen<br />
-always wears latex gloves when manipulating chemicals<br />
-doeans&#8217;t start crying when her data doesn&#8217;t make sense<br />
-thinks puppies and kittens are cute.<br />
There, everything you always wanted to know about being a woman but never dared ask from a perfect stranger on the internet.<br />
You&#8217;re welcome and I accept your apology.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rachel S.</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/04/11/so-yeah-what-about-the-menz/comment-page-1/#comment-5772</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 04:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=4584#comment-5772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, we don&#039;t get into &quot;what is a woman&quot; games, but there is a lot of BS &quot;what is a real feminist&quot;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we don&#8217;t get into &#8220;what is a woman&#8221; games, but there is a lot of BS &#8220;what is a real feminist&#8221;&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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