Comments on: Naomi Wolf on Helen Gurley Brown

By: La Chica Lucy

La Chica Lucy — Mon, 04 May 2009 18:20:48 +0000

Yeah, when I said I am for “sex positivity” I meant more the way Kelsium discribes: an outlook that sees sex as a positive thing, or as BeckySharper said: “women should be unashamed of our sex lives and our sexual needs, and in control of our own sexuality.” I’m sorry if I misued the term, because I do NOT support the sex industry.
Nanella, I do see myself as “a feminist who sees an inextricable link between the sex industry and patriarchy, and who believes “raunch culture” is inherently harmful to feminism and the humanity of women as a collective whole.” I hope I can still get a room at the Old Harpy House.

By: Miss Pinot

Miss Pinot — Mon, 04 May 2009 15:43:26 +0000

As a young woman who emphatically does NOT whip out her breasts every time a male drunkenly hoots for me to do so, the ‘sex-positive’ hijacking has made me roaringly angry for years(basically since the first time I realized that I had breasts, but they weren’t really mine, they were considered community property). HGB and her ilk have merely pushed playing the same gender roles that the patriarchy enforces, but merely smeared a shiny lipstick-pink veneer of ‘feminism’ over it. Taking the drive and anger out of feminism as my mother explained it to me has really just robbed my generation of a call to arms, and the sense of community that is needed to get anything done.

Can I join the Bitter Old Bitches, too? Pretty please? I’ll bake Buffalo Tofu Wings and bring wine.

By: kelsium

kelsium — Mon, 04 May 2009 01:04:00 +0000

@Um, a bunch of people:
I have heard “sex positive” associated in the way that Nanella and BeckySharper describe, but I’ve also heard it used to describe Planned Parenthood youth forums, GLBT outreach groups, etc. I like the term itself, as I think it accurately describes what it intends: an outlook that says sex is a positive thing. It saddens me that, like HGB and her Cosminions did with “feminism”, the same “individualists” have appropriated the idea and turned it into some kind of apologist term that means “I’m okay, you’re okay, no judgment! STFU!”

By: BeckySharper

BeckySharper — Mon, 04 May 2009 00:27:51 +0000

@Nanella: We will have a special wing of the Old Harpy House dedicated to Bitter Old Bitches. Reserve your room now!

I don’t think that “sex positive” is always associated with debates over the validity of sex work. I usually hear “I’m sex-positive!” in the context of “I can fuck whoever I want whenever I want and you can’t judge me!” And “fucking is a feminist act.” Which is a giant FAIL.

But I think there needs to be a term in the feminist movement for how women should be unashamed of our sex lives and our sexual needs, and in control of our own sexuality. That’s seeing sex in a positive light, and I think that’s an essential part of feminism.

By: PhDork

PhDork — Mon, 04 May 2009 00:25:18 +0000

Nanella, I'm not a fan of "sex positive" feminism either. I like Twisty Faster's take on it. An excerpt:

I propose third, easy-breezy alternative to the suffocating conformity demanded by this tiresome positive vs. negative binary thought system: sex-neutralism. Get busy, don’t get busy, whatever! While recognizing that penis placement has enormous political, social, and economic ramifications, particularly for members of the sex caste, the sex-neutral feminist — and I may be the only one alive — puts the act itself on a par with sneezing. Pleasant enough when it happens, but hardly worth elevating to the pinnacle of human acheivement, or devoting 98% of an internet to.

By: Nanella

Nanella — Mon, 04 May 2009 00:03:30 +0000

If La Chica Lucy is a bitter old bitch, than I’ll proudly claim that title. (Can we ironically call ourselves “BOBs”?) I thought it had already been established that “sex positive” is an extremely divisive, pejorative term meant to demean those who simply can’t, in good conscience, support the sex industry. You can love sex, you can be a sex maniac, but you may very well be a feminist who sees an inextricable link between the sex industry and patriarchy, and who believes “raunch culture” is inherently harmful to feminism and the humanity of women as a collective whole.

Whenever a feminist uses the term “sex positive” unironically, I feel like I’ve been kicked in the teeth.

By: Spark

Spark — Sun, 03 May 2009 20:07:46 +0000

I just realized that when an argument uses the word “empowered” unironically, I mentally check out.

By: La Chica Lucy

La Chica Lucy — Sun, 03 May 2009 07:42:43 +0000

I think Wolf hits the nail on the head here. What has this so-called “Lipstick” feminism really gotten us? The “right” to be a Girl Gone Wild? I’m all for sex positivity, but I think too much of what passes for feminism today is really a backlash: women asserting that they are wielding power by submitting to the whims of the Patriarchy. Or maybe I’m just a bitter old bitch.

By: kelsium

kelsium — Sat, 02 May 2009 22:04:47 +0000

@BeckySharper:
Thanks! I’m glad to be here, and I really really enjoyed going back and reading your earlier HGB piece. It is easily the highlight of my day!

By: BeckySharper

BeckySharper — Sat, 02 May 2009 21:56:45 +0000

@Kelsium: Agreed. And HGB doesn’t want us to be together in our struggle for equality because then we might be stealing each other’s boyfriends or something. She’s all about undermining your fellow women in the pursuit of your own empowerfulment.

(and hey, welcome! good to see you here!)