Yes, I DO want to go to there. Via ckelley @ Flickr.
I’ve been struggling with getting things written the last week or two (my brain, she is broken) but this article by Slate’s Jonah Weiner on 30 Rock got me all fired up. Major thanks to Sister SarahMC for bringing it to my attention and helping me rev up the grey matter.
Weiner’s thesis is that 30 Rock, while purportedly being at least liberally inclined (I suppose because of Fey’s personal politics and performance choices?), is actually conservative and in fact anti-feminist.
As Liz Lemon might say: What the what?
As an academic who really enjoys attending/presenting at popular culture conferences, I’m perfectly ready to tease out the threads of meaning that make up the fabric of any cultural product, but I wouldn’t buy Weiner’s argument for a wooden nickel. Moreover, I’m not sure really what the larger point is. 30 Rock isn’t as funnny as we think? Women are their own worst enemies? The librul media is a myth? Whatever his intention, he makes a good case–albeit unintentionally–for why we need more female/feminist critics.
Weiner seems to base his argument primarily on the fact that Fey’s character, Liz Lemon, is flawed. She’s in her 30s, usually single, baby-hungry, hungry-hungry (apparently, even female characters shouldn’t like food too much), self-deprecating, and TV-ugly (which is to say: brunette and bespectacled). OH NOES!!! I would have thought we’d moved past the point where a female (or black, or queer, or X) character had to be either an impeccable example or a ridiculous caricature of Otherness, but I guess Weiner hasn’t, and his critique is strongly gendered: Liz is a tomboy, Liz is emotionally stunted, Liz is “scared of sex” and “incapable of…using her sexuality to get ahead.” Color me unsurprised. Somehow, he fails to note that Liz is smart, funny, quite successful at her pretty rad job, with a great apartment on the UWS (dare to dream, y’all), friends, and a supportive–if mostly off-screen–family. She can also be patient and impatient, kind and unkind, and happy and unhappy. It’s like…she’s a multi-dimensional whaddaycallit… person, or something. And never mind that Liz is possibly the least screwy of the cast; Weiner feels that Liz is inappropriately adolescent, and that “her liberal-feminist instincts” are part of her arrested development. (Oh look, another smart-funny-underrated show that features a lot of screwed up people that the central character has to manage/survive! Tell me, Jonah, what that says about feminism.)
If anything, I see the 30 Rock as demonstrating, albeit in an inflated, fun-house-mirror fashion, the hazards and compromises that a liberal feminist woman (who are far more common than the crazy radicals that populate this site) encounters. Cheap jokes about her looks, cocky bosses who use her as a substitute mother/girlfriend/Girl Friday (although the Liz-Jack relationship is far more complicated; I’ll be covering that topic in Chapter 23 of my forthcoming book), deranged, narcissistic co-workers who either challenge her authority (the writers), or shanghai her into managing their emotional lives (Jenna and Tracy).
The rest of Weiner’s argument (which is rather meandering and ultimately equivocating) is based on 1) the impression that Liz repeatedly loses out to her boss Jack’s perspective; and 2) that the overt political commentary that marked the first two seasons has dissipated in the third.
My brief responses, as this is already eye-crossingly dorkulated, are as follows:
1) if Liz frequently “comes around to Jack’s way of seeing things,” that might also be a reflection of the world we live in (that would be Patriarchy, for those of you just joining us). Liz is hopeful and somewhat naive, and the series repeatedly covers her awakening to the ridiculous/depressing realities of working for a corporate monster like GE/NBC/TGS/Sheinhardt Wig Company. (Remember, “TGS with Tracy Jordan” was originally “The Girlie Show”?) I’m not sure why she would need to “win” every battle in order for the series to be liberal or feminist. Prob’ly for the same reason the fictional Liz can’t eat meatball subs without scorn.
2) I’m willing to concede that there are fewer political gags than before, but there might some really obvious reasons for that, like the fact that TV shows are filmed weeks–even months–in advance, and writers might not have known who or what to skewer or lampoon. And even if they did, Obama is just now only 100 or so days into his term and so far, it’s pretty hard to mock the dude. (That’s what happens when you elect someone who isn’t smugly, willfully ignorant and mean.) And wait: how does NOT mocking liberals make the show stealthily conservative?
I could go on, but I’ll spare you all. (For now. Arguments in comments welcome!) So, to sum up: Jonah Weiner, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Thanks for waking up my brain (such as it is), but don’t mess with my Tina.
So the government really IS keeping a gay bomb?!
(1) I do not believe that Slate is even trying anymore.
(2) Another thing about Liz Lemon is: everyone I know loves her. Both women and men want to be her BFF, and/or her, and/or her significant other. This is in spite of all her flaws, but probably because of them. She has bad days! She had a really hard time getting over Floyd and bought that wedding dress and then walked around in it at work! Stars: they’re just like us (only with more money). I fail to see how a liberal, smart, successful and extremely relatable and likeable woman is somehow un- or anti-feminist.
PhDork, I ask that you out yourself once your book is published so the harpies can buy it! Or at least this commenter, I can’t presume to speak for all of us.
Here is the thing: I don’t think that the character Liz Lemon is herself un- or anti-feminist. However, I do think that often times the character is written as a parody of women and therefore Liz Lemon’s attempts at “librulism” could be interpreted as satire….sort of along the same lines as Jack.
The reality is that this is a television show and the writing is often based on stereotypes which can be interpreted many ways. Liz Lemon is the closest thing that 30 rock has to a multi-faceted character but she is still subject to the constraints of television writing.
I DO wish that at least one of the writers with speaking roles was female (I know there’s a woman there but she’s usually silent in comparison to Frank, Lutz, etc.). But honestly that probably has more to do with the dearth of female comics than with anything else. I love Liz Lemon because (like kithkin mentions) I feel like I’m exactly like her in a lot of ways. Plus, two of Jack’s love interests have been smart, independent women who weren’t willing to change themselves for him any more than he was willing to change himself for them.
Seems pretty feminist to me…
I sent you this article because it made me panic. Because I can see what he’s saying. Liz is as awesome as awesome can be but I get the feeling the show is mocking her.
Like, she’s pathetic for being unmarried and without child, but like all women she’s baby-crazy. If only she weren’t a career woman she might be fulfilled. And why is it supposed to be so funny that she likes to eat? I think Liz is portrayed as a loser (often for the same reasons we dig her), and for some bizarre reason, unattractive!
Feminism is proof that women can’t be equal to the awesome menz.
I have a hard time taking a man’s point of view on a feminist being anti-woman. We just can’t win. I think 30 Rock is pretty obviously feminist. The mere fact that Liz Lemon is a complex, nuanced character (in a sitcom!) is testament to the fact. When a woman can be the main character without the fact that she’s a woman being the point, well… That’s a win.
This probably makes no sense. Sorry.
Sarah, I see what you mean about it being strange that her liking food is played for laughs. But remember how ridiculous it was when Jenna did the “me want foooood” routine? It worked but it was clearly meant to be bad that it worked.
Mireille, “When a woman can be the main character without the fact that she’s a woman being the point, well… That’s a win.” I agree 100%.
It’s hard for me to get past the “Liz is unattractive jokes” sometimes. I mean really. Not to mention that the men on the show can be disheveled and/or of varying sizes.
amanda: What? Frank is hot, right? :p
SMC: I agree that we are occasionally supposed to laugh at Liz for her foibles, which are sometimes (not always) gender coded. But I would argue that it cuts both ways. We see Carrie Fisher as the Crazy Old Feminist, but then we see Liz/Tina do her “Chocolate chocolate chocolate ACK!” parody of those wretched Cathy cartoons (now there we can perhaps discuss anti-feminist cultural productions created by women). We’re meant to recognize and laugh at the stereotypes, BUT ALSO RECOGNIZE THEM AS STEREOTYPES, not realities. Viewers (well, feminists, perhaps) can identify the biases as such, realize that they’re ridiculous and harmful and based in sexist bullshit thinking (kithkin points out “me want fooood!” as another example).
Sure, Liz can be a bit loser-y–like dudes on The Big Bang Theory, or Seinfeld, or almost any sitcom–but even though she wants a relationship or a child (ain’t nothin’ wrong with that, no matter what Jonah Weiner says), I can’t recall an instance where she’s capitulated to that narrative at the expense of herself. She’s been pulled in: dating Jon Hamm’s “in-the-bubble” doctor, hanging out with some Real Housewives types, but she always wakes up, realizes that those things are not “happiness,” and she returns, sometimes with regrets, sometimes with relief, to her real life. Which is why we love her.
It’s hard out here for a feminist.
@amanda/notmandy: I can understand the frustration with the idea that Liz Lemon/Tina Fey is “TV ugly”, but I think that this was really effectively handled in the episode where she and Floyd go to Cleveland and people keep stopping her on the street to tell her that she’s pretty. The fact that Tina Fey is real-world conventionally attractive is part of the joke: we live in a world of distorted perceptions made worse by seeing those whom the entertainment media deems “attractive”. In the microcosm of the entertainment industry thin women are fat, pretty women are ugly, fat women can only be funny if they’re growling “me want FOOD!”, and so on and so on.
I think that the show is completely aware of itself on this point.
@PhDork: I completely agree with you here, but I think that the only flaw in 30 Rock‘s commentary here is that sometimes they may be too subtle in their identification and mocking of stereotypes. This may seem like a laughable idea to us, but like you said, truthfully we are a relatively radical minority who seeks to be educated about these things.
I’m in no way advocating for more lowest common denominator television (please, no.), but I can see how a couple of the issues mentioned here (most notably the whole Liz Lemon is “ugly” conceit) could be misread as harmful.
I love the subtle humor of 30 Rock, but this article had me doubting myself and wondering whether the show was much simpler and straightforward than I had given it credit for. I think y’all have talked me down though.
Yes there are some Liz is unattractive/baby crazy/eats too much jokes, but they really aren’t about her being unattractive/baby crazy/or eating too much.
Let me start with attractive jokes: The show actually admits she is attractive (there are several attractive men who like her and there is even an episode dedicated to her realizing that she is a “hair” not a “head”). Even though Liz is attractive, she does not put her time and energy into her looks, as Jenna does. Because she rejects the idea that she has to be beautiful above all else, she is often made fun of for not dieting, not exercizing, etc., and she is insecure about it. But the joke isn’t that she is ugly; it is that people treat her as so because she doesn’t act like Jenna when she is clearly as attractive and more stable than Jenna.
The eating too much joke is just a subset of what I already mentioned.
The baby crazy joke, as far as I can remember, only really comes up in one episode (where she steals a baby), so I’ll keep specifically to that episode. You have to remember that at the end of this episode, (while Liz doesn’t rule out the idea that she eventually wants a baby,) Liz realizes she is happy with her job (a conclusion she has come to in other episodes as well). Combine this with the moment we see the mother of the baby. The mother is overwhelmed with the baby, as she is trying to juggle the baby and her job. She is able to to it (keeping in true feminist form), but it certianly Liz isn’t anymore flawed than the mother is. It seems the coice to not have a baby, or to wait to have a baby, doesn’t make her any less of a person.
That’s the beauty of these jokes, they are not al Liz Lemon’s expense. Rather, they are examples of how boxing women into valueing beauty and motherhood above all else, is what wears on Liz. Ultimatly Liz’s rejection of beauty and choice to wait on motherhood turn out to be what is best for her.
You may be right, kelsium, that a lot of this stuff is going over the heads of some proportion of viewers. I am hopeful, though, that since the show isn’t drawing American Idol-type audiences (either in numbers or demographics), that a good percentage, which doesn’t include Jonah Weiner, are able to read a little deeper.
@PhDork: Though, even if it is the case that some of the more subtle stereotype undermining may be flying over the heads of some viewers, and I am also hopeful that it isn’t, the good the show does is far from lost. The simple fact that “the hazards and compromises that a liberal feminist woman encounters” are being portrayed at all is a huge deal.
Now if we could just get someone to say “abortion” on television.
I love 30 Rock, but there are definitely cringe-worthy moments. When the show first began, Liz was a lot closer to the caricature of the miserable, lonely career woman, who wants a boyfriend/family but can’t have it. To the point where I found it hard to enjoy the show–it felt a little sell-out to me. But over time the writing has gotten sharper (or maybe it’s a matter of more episodes means a more developed character). I love that Liz can be sexual and attractive (she got John Hamm!), but also a total dork.
I found it uncomfortable when Tracy made her put the new jug on the water cooler by herself. To me it came off as a mockery of equality between the sexes (i.e. feminism). I still laughed at the physical comedy though.
Ugh, I keep going back and forth about this.
@SarahMC: Yeah, the last episode was a failure on the feminist front. (Except for, “Let’s go look at some naked daughters and moms!”) Changing water coolers and attending bachelor parties is NOT equality, and I was annoyed Liz/the show went along with the idea that it is.
I get your ambivalence, @SarahMC. I think the article in Slate makes a good case.
It’s disappointing to wonder, are there commercial reasons why Liz is portrayed this way? Or artistic reasons?
Kithkin: (1) Agreed.
Mireille: I get it. It’s not like ZOMG A SHOW ABOUT A WOMAN AND WOMEN’S ISSUES… it’s just a show with a female main character.
I love the show but every time Liz refers to her weight, a little part of me dies.
This is very interesting to see, because we seem to have come from not-too-dissimilar ideological perspectives to arrive at opposite conclusions on both the show and the article. I’m a grouchy enough feminist woman and I was relieved to see Weiner’s piece because most of the issues he raises about the show have been bothering me for a long time, and I was wondering if I was literally the only viewer troubled by this.
And while I can see where you’re coming from, I don’t at all think his thesis is based primarily on Liz Lemon’s character having flaws. I think the show has, as the headline calls it, a “conservative streak” — it’s really vexing when it appears but it’s not present all the time, which is part of why it’s so confusing to try to pick out the strands.
[...] anti-feminist and secretly conservative here. The Pursuit of Harpyness (one of my favorite blogs!)weighed in, and Bitch Magazine’s blog joined in on the discussion, too. (There was also a Maxim article [...]
As an unmarried woman without a child, I love this show. Sometimes I find it offensive just because a man who is unmarried without children in a great job is not looked upon as a loser while a woman in the same position is. However, if you imagine a man playing the Liz Lemon role, single and scattered, he would probably be some kind of losery comic relief just like she can be.
One thing that worries me (and sorry if someone already said this but there were so many comments I didn’t read them all) is that some people who watch one or two episodes of the show may not pick up on the satire and sigh, thinking to themselves that women just can’t get along without men when they see snippets of Liz and Jack’s relationship.