"...as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end." Via بنیامین آقاجون' @ Flickr.
Gentle readers, I have a confession that may surprise you. I regularly consort with the right wing. A lot. And sometimes in the Biblical sense.
One of my best friends, for example, is a hardcore conservative, devout Roman Catholic who used to crank out propaganda for arch-right Regnery Press, actively campaigns to ban abortion, and as the Op-Ed page editor for a leading conservative newspaper wrote many editorials against gay marriage. And yet, I adore her and I am not in the slightest bit conflicted by our friendship. She’s not the only one of my friends with whom I have significant differences of opinion—one of my not-boyfriends is a Republican politician and more than a few of my college and hometown friends are politically active evangelical Christians.
I know some of you are muttering and shaking your heads right now. Hear me out.
We liberals all agree that it’s wrong to reject someone simply because their religion or ethnicity or sexual orientation is different than yours. And I think we all agree that an ideal society is one where people of different religions, politics and lifestyles mingle freely and amicably. In places where your neighbor becomes the “other,” where both groups are entrenched in their own ideologies and “separateness” and have become both literally and figuratively estranged…well, that scenario never ends well. Ask a Bosnian, an Ulsterman, or a Palestinian.
But here’s the kicker: that work of forging connections, of maintaining a stable, diverse society, happens one person at a time. Yes, politics and policy can come into play, but it’s also our responsibility to bridge the gap as individuals. Do you sit down at the table of brotherhood—as Dr. King said—with people who are not like you? And I don’t mean just with people who look different from you. I mean people who are different from you—whose religious or social ideologies conflict with yours. I’m not saying we have to spend Sunday with Rick Warren at Saddleback Church. But it might not be such a bad thing for us to have dinner with some of his congregants. We’d likely find that there’s more that unites us than divides us (e.g. caring for AIDS patients in Africa, fighting institutionalized poverty in the US, protecting our environment). When we stop being “the other” to them, and they stop being “the other” to us, we can work together for the common good and care for one another as neighbors should. It’s easy to be with like-thinking people, but there’s not much societal—or personal— benefit when you do that all the time and never look for common ground with the people who are not like you.
In my personal life, what makes my relationship with Conservative Homegirl work is a great deal of mutual respect, a sense of humor and—believe it or not—shared values. I joke with her about the issues that divide us—texting her a marriage proposal when the Maine legislature voted to allow same-sex marriage, for example—but respect her enough to know when to back off (we do not spar about abortion, for example, since feelings run high on that issue.) We are both religious, and enjoy celebrating each other’s holidays; our shared love of God unites us even though our religious institutions are radically different. As for socializing, when I’m with some of my arch-conservative friends or they’re with my feminazi liberal friends, we deliberately avoid certain topics and focus on enjoying ourselves. At the end of the day, Conservative Homegirl is one of my most loving friends—a reliable and empathetic shoulder to cry on and a delightful person to laugh with, especially when we’re able to laugh over our radically different opinions. I’m grateful that I didn’t obey my knee-jerk reaction to shun her when we first met. The same goes for my Republican not-boyfriend or my evangelical college roommate and the many others with whom I share love and friendship, but not political or religious views.
To me, one of the most distressing things about the last ten years in America has been the polarization not only of our political parties, but of our society as a whole. The culture wars are no joke. The “red state/blue state” label–and mentality–is a new and unfortunate indicator of just how estranged we have become, or think we have become. It’s a cliché to talk about “disagreeing without being disagreeable,” but it’s a cliché with a lot of merit. My mother used to say “you can get along with anyone if you try”—which, in my experience, is not always true, but with some effort, it’s true more often than you’d expect. It’s also absolutely vital to having a peaceful, prosperous society, and binding up the wounds of the past ten years. I’m all for political activism, and I will happily bash away at conservative ideology—particularly conservative religious ideology, which I loathe—but except for extreme cases, I try to avoid demonizing the people along with the ideology. One of the reasons I like President Obama so much is that he seems determined to walk the same line–he disagrees with his political opponents without disrespecting them, and his friends and advisors include many people who actively disagree with him on a whole host of issues.
Edward R. Murrow said: “We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.” I would add that acceptance of a loyal opposition shouldn’t be confined just to the other side of the aisle in our two-party system. If we want a truly equitable and humane society, we have to accept, and even seek out, the loyal opposition in our neighbors, our co-workers and our families. We have to make it work one-on-one in order to see the change we want in society as a whole.
Racialicious had a post up that highlighted parts of a study that discussed prejudice and how predictable it is. One of his suggestions was to have students from liberal places spend a semester in the conservative south n Midwest and vice versa in order to build more tolerance and understanding with different groups in this country who we may otherwise never really spend time with. I don’t have the link with me as I’m on my phonebut can send it later. As someone who’s lived in a nycbubble my whole life, I think it’s a valid point. I have plenty of conservative friends here who are deeply religious but they tend to still be more liberal than southern conservatives ( the ‘ I’m personally against it but won’t stop u from doing it types). And I often half joke that people fromother countries are normal to me while those from other states are exotic. And as a born $ bred (3 generation new yorker) I can attest to the fact that most new yorkers see All southeners as backwards hicks. I think a culural exchange withinthe stAtes could do wondersand help facilitate change ( maybe) inour political wArs.
@Francesca: As a New Yorker who was born, raised and educated below the Mason-Dixon, I completely agree. America’s a big country, but people tend to move in small circles. Widening the circles can only be a good thing.
Bravo for this Becky! I have a number of Republican friends (though they are rather quickly jumping the aisle), and even working in politics doesn’t come in the way of our friendships. We simply tease each other mercilessly, but at the end of the day, respect the views of the other person. I’ve never understood why that’s so hard to do.
This is a wonderful post. I wish it didn’t leave me feeling skeptical.The rightwing seems so fueled by hate, and I can’t help but take it personally. I don’t mean that all people who identify as conservative/Republican are hateful. But if someone said to me that they supported McCain, I immediately think of those Palin rallies and how hateful they were. I understand disagreeing about how government should work–but how can you condone that kind of speech and discourse? Honestly, I feel the same way about people who are devoted anti-choicers. Especially after the partial-birth abortion ban. I take it personally. I wish I could feel the generosity and forgiveness you feel, Becky. My relationship with my father has suffered so much since his politics drifted rightward. It’s not the policy differences, or the war in Iraq. It’s the hate that runs underneath it.
I think a big part of it is maturity. I tried to be friends with a Republican who was 10 years younger than me – she was funny, kind, and inspired me to break out of some bad life patterns I had fallen into – but when I tried to joke about her Republicanism with her (figuring she would turn it right back on me), she got very angry and defensive, and no amount of me explaining that I wasn’t attacking her could convince her otherwise. Of course, she could never say why she was a Republican other than her parents were and taught her to be, and I find that the most defensive people are the ones who know they’re on the shakiest ground… (I keep wondering if I will run into her again someday and she’ll actually have solid reasons for her beliefs that will mean I can joke about it with her. I hope so, but at the same time I get the feeling that she would just never talk to me again.)
Yet I have relatives who are Republicans, and varying degrees of conservative, who I get along with just fine. Sometimes they irk me by not avoiding the subjects that are really sensitive but I can just ignore it or say “I don’t want to talk about that” and they will change the subject. Plus, I know I do it to them sometimes so it balances out. Considering these are people who were there for me in some of the hardest moments of my young life and in many ways helped shape who I am today – and, like you said, share many of the same values as I do – it’s impossible to hate them for it.
it’s unbelievable to me sometimes how both sides – left and right – can paint the other so quickly, so negatively and so widely.
variety is the spice of life! imagine if all our friends thought, dressed and acted alike…we’d all be stepford people.
a little bit of respect and open-mindedness can go a long way.
I can’t have more than superficial friendships with conservatives/Republicans. People’s political views say something about how they view the world, and I don’t respect the conservative/Republican worldview.
A person who actively campaigns to outlaw abortion, for instance, is not respecting me, as a (female) person, so I see no reason to grant them my respect, let alone friendship.
A lot of us liberals have not only been “exposed to” conservative environments; we’ve grown up in them. I’m plenty familiar with the bigotry, fear, greed, authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism, and I don’t see why I’m required to be “open” to people who possess those qualities.
@SarahMC: “I don’t see why I’m required to be “open” to people who possess those qualities.”
Because they’re human beings and you recognize their humanity and dignity even though you disagree with them? And because people who disagree with you can still be honest, kind, worthwhile people?
You’re not “required” to socialize with anyone, of course. And I’ve certainly given up on some people because I can’t break through their ideologies. But I’d rather not apply a political/religious litmus test to everyone I meet.
I never said I don’t recognize and respect their humanity. Of course people who disagree with me can be honest, kind, worthwhile people. But then why are they conservative/Republican? There’s got to be SOMETHING that puts them in that camp and that something is bound to be ugly.
I don’t apply a litmus test, but because of their ideologies, I tend not to like conservatives/Republicans very much.
I know I probably sound like a broken record, but this openness and understanding you talk about is one of the qualities the late David Wallace had and never seemed to run out of. That deep sorrow at the fragmentation of our world and division in our country reverberated through a lot of his work. The value of compassion, empathy, and discipline to think about different people as people too is impossible to overstate. Thanks for the post.
My dad has always identified as a hardcore Republican. He watches Fox News at high volumes and seems to have a deep love of watching other people argue on TV. (He claims that they have people take both sides. I refuse to watch people argue.) However, over Christmas, I finally called him out on something, telling him that I understood that he’s about small federal government and making decisions on the state and local levels (he actually believes that most states would allow abortion by voting measures even if Roe Vs. Wade got overturned–heh), but that the Republican party hasn’t actually BEEN like that in decades. Yeah, that’s what they taught us it was supposed to be about in U.S. history class, but it has gone completely haywire and now wants to regulate all sorts of social issues and leave businesses alone or something.
He then decided he’s a Libertarian because the Republican party has failed him. I really wonder what has happened to people like my dad over the last few decades–do they vote Dem for social issues or Repub out of habit? Obviously, McCain became a lot more socially conservative (at least as a public persona) between 2000 and 2008 to give himself a better chance at winning. It’s like the old school Repubs are just lost if they don’t want to play along with the religious right/social conservatives.
I don’t have a problem with religious people as long as they don’t try to force it on me. Some of my closest friends in college were Mormon, but they didn’t make it a big deal, and I have many practicing Catholic family members. I have any number of problems with religious INSTITUTIONS though because they sometimes monger fear and hate or just do dumb things like try to cover up child abuse. They also don’t adapt quickly enough to changing times and scientific discoveries, in my opinion, like condoms/AIDS and homosexuality issues, whereas I feel like many of the individuals recognize problems with that.
@SarahMC: They might be conservative/Republican because that’s how they were raised, because their religious beliefs sync with Republican ideology, or because their beliefs about the role of gov’t do. Or because they’re ignorant hateful fucks. I just try to give them the benefit of the doubt before I assume the latter.
Also, one can be Republican and not espouse all the planks in the platform. There are socially liberal Republicans just as their are conservative fucktard Democrats.
I went out with a Republican for two years – it generally only worked because we had great hate sex and I enjoyed arguing with him, also because I couldn’t take him seriously and knew that this was just a fling (albeit one that lasted for a long time).
That said I have a couple of very close friends who are on the libetarian wing of the Republican party (one of whom seriously believes that Ayn Rand is the only writer ever to have made sense) and I don’t find them hard to hang out with – we have heated discussions and debates and I think occasionally they are both crazy but I still like them.
That said both of them despise the social conservative wing of the Republican party, loathe Palin and are confirmed atheists, so I don’t know if I would feel as comfortable for example with being friends with an anti-abortion campaigner or someone who thought Sarah Palin made sense.
Still i thought this was a great post and I think it is wrong to entrench yourself with only those who agree you, people can change after all – one very close friend of mine left hte Republican party the day they elected George W Bush and currently works for Obama. I would never have predicted his political path when I first knew him 10 years ago but I stayed friends with him because he’s always made me laugh and think about things.
I agree with SarahMC that me respecting the dignity and humanity of conservatives does not require me to actually befriend them. I barely have enough time to spend with my ideologically pure friends. I am willing to hang out with anyone who is cool and down and I get along with; I’ve just never met one who is Republican. Frankly I can barely tolerate extended time with even moderate or centrist Democrats unless they have a really good sense of humor about their beliefs — because I can’t imagine being friends with someone for long without politics coming up in conversation. However I have conservatives of all stripes in my family, regularly have to advocate with conservatives and Republicans for work and have lived in very conservative places where I am the minority so it’s not like I have NYC-style myopia. I just find, like Sarah that political ideology tends to line up with other things I don’t like about people.
I personally have a hard time being BFFs with conservative people. I get very emotional about certain topics, esp. women’s rights, and if someone is actively preaching against these issues, I have a hard time loving them.
But yeah, as long as there is common ground and the person is a loving friend, it works. The problem is that a lot of the people I disagree with politically are assholes and misogynists and thus, not loving friends to a woman like me. Then again, a lot of super-lefties are also assholes to me because I’m Israeli so that trips them up. I can’t win! Point is, as long as the person isn’t an asshole, then of course they can be my friend. But most people, regardless of political affiliation, are assholes. What can ya do?
I agree with most of the things said by SarahMC. Political ideology, unlike sex or race, is a CHOICE. It requires thought and consideration of some really important issues. You could say some people are just raised in conservative homes, but people who actively speak out against same-sex marriage and abortion rights, people who hate on people for the sake of their religious beliefs, people who say they hope the nation fails because Obama is president, people who think poor people are poor because they’re stupid and lazy, those are all choices. And I can’t get down with them. So I can appreciate their humanity, but I’m certainly not going to respect or want to spend time with someone who harbors hateful attitudes.
Wow, such a great post. This is a subject near and dear to my heart, as I sometimes feel I embody both sides of things – my politics are liberal, but I am a Christian. I have friends that I love dearly on both sides of things, and I feel that I am a better person for being exposed to so wide a variety of experiences and opinions.
P.S. to my comment:
I do appreciate that some people can see beyond this kind of stuff. Perhaps you, like Barack Obama, are a much better person than I. I personally just can’t separate the person from the politics, especially if they’re very passionate about it.
I’ve been trying to think of people I’m close to with whom I have serious ideological differences, and they’re mostly family. Maybe two or three friends, but they’re from different chapters of my life, and I see them rarely.
I suppose, for me, it’s a matter of first contact: do I get to know them as people first, or are we meeting on political “turf”? I know that religious fundamentalists (of any faith) aren’t necessarily horrible, hateful people up close, but what they believe and what I believe are simply incompatible, and as such, I could never be more than coolly cordial. I can go-along and get-along when necessary, but I wouldn’t feel it a terrible loss if I never had to interact with one again.
Also another reason i find it hard to judge is because in contrast to where i grew up most Americans are to the right of my politics anyway, unless they don’t espouse the political beliefs of either major party that is. So looked at that way hanging out with Democrats is nearly as crazy as hanging out with Republicans in that I’ve met Democrats who sincerely believe in the death penalty and don’t believe in free universal health care for all, two things which i take huge issue with. I just tend to think that they are deluded rather than terrible people.
emily I also find it easier to be friends with people of different ideologies who are from different countries — maybe because I haven’t heard ALL the arguments before in all the same contexts…
This post is really interesting, but I have to admit it also makes me a little uncomfortable. Political beliefs aren’t benign preferances. You migtht “adore” your friend, Becky, and find common ground on which you can relate, but at the end of the day it sounds like she’d willingly and happily deny you the right to control your own body, as well as deny people the right to marry anyone they pleased. Given that, what makes me uncomfortable is how breezily you (seem to me to) say “And yet, I adore her and I am not in the slightest bit conflicted by our friendship.”
Really? You are in the SLIGHTEST BIT conflicted? It doesn’t bother you in the least?
I agree with a lot of what you say in this post. Wholesale blanket judgements aren’t good and no one should be written off entirely just because they identify as conservative/Republican/evangelical. But I also don’t think it’s right to give your friends a free pass because you like them. No matter how great your friends are and no matter how proud you feel to have been able to relate to a person once you looked past political stances, it doesn’t seem genuine to me that these friendships raise no level of uncomfortableness for you.
As other commenters have noted, it can be hard for them to love and support close family members because they disagree politically. I’m willing to buy the idea that we need to reach out, work past polarization. I’m not buying the idea that you do so easily, without struggle, second thoughts or anger towards someone who can at once claim to love you and also believes the government should have more say over your womb than you.
@margosita: It’s not so much that I don’t have anger and struggle with some of my right-wing friends–believe me, there have been some serious knock-down, drag-out arguments in every one of these relationships–but I’m reconciled to the fact we will never agree on certain issues, and I try to respect their right to have their beliefs, even if I can’t respect the beliefs.
Also, you don’t necessarily need a frontal assault to subvert people’s ideology and prejudices.
For example: I grew up in a place with almost no Jewish community, and when I went to college I was often the first Jewish person many of my classmates had met. When I was able to say “Yeah, I’m Jewish. This is what a Jewish person looks like. I’m the same as you”, it took “Jew” out of the “other” category for them. When you realize that “others” are mostly the same as you, it’s a lot harder to just blanket-hate them.
It’s the same when I’m in a situation where people are hardcore right-wingers–when I tell them, “Yeah, I’m a feminist” you can kind of see the little lightbulb go on over their heads: OMG, she’s totally normal! It gives them a context for what feminism is that they might otherwise never get b/c they’d be so entrenched in their Fox News/evangelical worlds.
My husband is a republican and guess what? It’s not a big deal, because he is a good person.
Our relationship exists in more places than the voting booth. You know all those terrible hateful conservative republicans you hear about, those people shouting at Palin rallies and so on? Most people who voted for McCain aren’t actually like that. They are, in fact, reasonable people! Like you and me!
We’ve had to learn to discuss politics very carefully and respectfully (and with either of our families, we just don’t bring up the topic) but I’ve come to realize that he has a lot of good, non-hateful reasons for believing some of the things he believes.
We really do learn from each other (I’ve also made him see my side of some issues) – and really, before I met him I demonized republicans as some sort of Other. That’s no way to get along with half the voting population of this country.
I think he votes the way he does because he’s heard more from other republicans and libertarians than from liberal types, and so I gently introduce him to the viewpoints he’s missed. His heart is in the right place and he admits his republican alliance is based mostly on economic issues (while for me, economics are way less important than social issues).
Just because you’ve seen conservatives spewing hatred, don’t assume that’s how everyone on their side of the aisle thinks! Plenty of them are good people, and you won’t find out which is which unless you actually go out and meet them.
jdregent, I totally think that’s it, although i do have to admit that socially conservative republicans are probably too much for me even as a foreigner. I try but if God comes into it then it gets a bit odd for me, which is strange given I am actually a Catholic. It’s just that where I grew up it was a bit infra dig to talk about God, you just went to church or you didn’t and no one cared either way.
@loxosceles: I think you said it better than I did. And you make a good point: if 46% of people voted for John McCain and a third of people in the US identify as evangelical Christians, does that mean that they’re all bad people and we should shun them? That’s not going to help anyone in the long run, including us.
Like you said, you get along with your husband because he’s a good person. Being a good person and being conservative are not mutually exclusive, people!
@loxosceles, Becky: I don’t think anyone’s saying conservative = horrible person who we should shun. For example, you can be a good person in a lot of ways and also be against gay marriage. But how can you ask a person who is currently suffering–like LGB folks who married in California pre-prop 8–to just put that aside? It’s not a “political disagreement” when it directly affects your wellbeing, and frankly, makes a judgement on your value as a human being. Now maybe some good, kind conservatives just haven’t had their eyes opened yet to what they did to their gay neighbors. Ok, it’s all a learning process. But how long do you make excuses about someone coming from a different background or having a different perspective before you start to wonder about the quality of their friendship, or what they really think about you?
@BeckySharper- I think you make an excellent point about the power of making an “other” into a recognizable person. I think that goes a long way to ending or changing ideological differences. And to making people more thoughtful and respectuful. I really agree and appreciate those sentiments and I think you express them really well.
What I’m struggling with really is your claim to be unconflicted. You say you’ve had “some serious knock-down, drag-out arguments” with your friends as if what matters most is that you disagree, not WHAT you disagree on. I liked this post, but I found myself wishing you’d go deeper. How do you reconcile the adoration you feel for your friend with the fact that she has no problem denying people rights based on her personal beliefs? I understand that disagreeing causes arguments between you two, but I’m curious about just the conflict in YOU.
Of course, that might be a whole other post.
@margosita: I’m not conflicted in the slightest about the fact that I love my friends regardless of their political views. Christ said you can love the sinner and hate the sin, and while I’m not Christian, I totally buy into that philosophy. I think my friend is wrong. I don’t hate her for it. I hate that she might try to deprive people of their rights, but I have devoted a large chunk of my time and energy to fighting for those rights, so it’s not as though I’m passively accepting her viewpoints.
@spark: I’m not asking anyone to put aside their convictions, or telling the oppressed to sympathize with their oppressors. I’m just saying that we can communicate with–and befriend, and find common ground with–people who are on the opposite sides of issues instead of demonizing them and saying “ZOMG, he’s a Republican/evangelical/pro-lifer–I won’t have a thing to do with him!”
Check out the way Obama does this–he finds common ground with just about everyone and treats everyone respectfully and it’s always paid off for him.
For me, it’s not so much whether or not another person and I have similar political positions. It’s whether the person and I can both be open-minded and respectful when we get together.
I generally skew left-wing (strongly feminist, ardently pro-choice, confidently atheist, among other typically-lefty qualities). I have had wonderful relationships with right-wing and left-wing people. And I’ve had frustrating conversations with people whose ideologies resemble my own, because one or both of us was being sutbborn or disrespectful.
Having said that, I find it hard to have friendships with people whose political or philosophical worldviews are strikingly different from mine, and I would have a VERY hard time being friends with someone who thought I was evil (or even misguided) because I had an abortion. Maybe that makes me not open-minded enough, but I think it actually just means I respect myself and my choices more than I respect someone whose ideology tells them to impose their choices on me.
I am curious as to where the line gets drawn. Would you (any of you) continue friendships with and remain unconflicted about people who belong to a white power group? That’s just one example but I would be willing to bet that there IS a point at which a person’s political beliefs/behavior disqualifies them for “good person” status.
@Kari: Yes, if someone’s really far out on an issue, it’s hard to deal with them. I won’t be having any members of Aryan Nation to my house for pie anytime soon. I’m not saying we have to cozy up to everyone, especially if someone labels me evil. Although I have to say, I’ve gone out of my way on more than one occasion to be extra-charming to people who I knew were radically anti-Semitic or anti-feminist and then unmasked myself just to see them blow a gasket.
As for being friends with someone who would judge you for having an abortion, well, it’s my opinion that they never need to know. It’s none of their business anyway, and if they’ve shown they can’t handle that reality, fuck ‘em. If I had an abortion, I would never tell any of my pro-life friends; being their friend doesn’t mean I have to line up for judgement.
@Becky: I don’t think we should have litmus tests for who we’re friends with or who we treat with decency. But there are legitimate reasons why “politics” would prevent a true and honest friendship. You can’t really blame someone if they’re not Christ-like enough to be tolerant of others’ intolerance. Kari puts it very well. Maybe if she shared that she had an abortion with an anti-choicer, that person would change his/her mind. Then again, maybe not. Maybe there are occasions when it’s not worth the risk of sharing that story.
@Becky: But if you had an abortion and your friend has gone on the record saying abortion is evil and women who have them are irresponsible sluts, or whatever, can’t you imagine your friendship suffering or ending, whether you confess to them or not?
My sympathy with the push-back on this post comes from my worries about the nature of deep friendship. (none of this applies to casual friends/ lovers.) the problem is this: isn’t part of what it is to be a close/”best” friend mean that you wish your friend success in her projects and commitments? Now, this only applies to people who are really involved in politics, but for those, how can you simultaneously wish your friend personal fulfillment *and* think that success of her political projects (which we assume are central to her sense identity) would be a moral catastrophe? I’m not saying friendships that lack this sincere well-wishing are fake or pointless- we need a whole range of friendships – but it really seems like a friendship b/a two opposed activists can’t achieve a certain sort of … Solidarity, I suppose I’d call it.
That said, I absolutely and completely agree that exposure to and even friendship with one’s political opponents is both personally and civically healthy.
I can get along with anyone that is not an argumentative prick. I have had friends that are libertarian, coworkers that were extremely religious and conservative (one was very supportive as I transitioned on the job, so how about that?) but the people that I choose to spend time with are going to be the people that see things generally the way I do politically. Some people are just not political, they don’t follow politics… I know some of you may not believe it, but it’s true! And I can get along just fine with them. I can get along with anyone at work because I have to. But I really have a hard time imagining myself deciding to go out outside of work with someone that is racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic to any degree. Of course, if they wanted to hang out with me, they would have to be at least somewhat open minded. But then, I am pretty cool.
@Spark: Yeah, I wouldn’t risk sharing that story. But no one says your friends are entitled to full disclosure anyway. There are a lot of things that I don’t share with friends simply because I know they would react badly because of their own personal views–political, religious, whatever. This is true for my left-wing friends as well. For example, the vast majority of my friends are atheists, including the Harpies. So I don’t talk about my religious convictions with them. They might not like it, and I don’t think they need to know anyway.
@SarahMC: Yeah, white power would pretty much do it for me. Also Operation Rescue, Islamic fundamentalism, some of the more radical ultra-orthodox Jewish groups and the Nation of Islam would severely test my patience and sisterly love. But those are radical fringes and I think most people on the right wing would disavow any relationship with them.
@X.Trapnel: Like I said in the post, I have a lot in common with this particular friend despite our political differences, and she’s a very kind and loving person, and easy to get along with. As far as the issues go, we just don’t lock horns by mutual agreement. She’ll tell me she’s going to a pro-life fundraiser, I’ll tell her I’m giving my tax refund to Planned Parenthood. And that’s as far as it goes. If she gave me shit about it or tried to convert me to her cause, we’d have a problem, but she never does (and vice versa).
We just accept that we really differ on that point and then we go bash away at it with our respective political groups.
@Spark: It depends. If this friend were an asshole about it, then yeah, that would likely be a problem. What you’re describing is asshole behavior, so the friendship would probably end.
But my relationships are more nuanced and they tend to not hang on one issue so long as the issue isn’t forced. I have friends who seriously think I’m going to hell because I don’t accept Jesus Christ as my savior. I think that’s their problem, not mine. So long as they don’t give me undue shit about it, who cares?
@BeckySharper- I’m sorry! I think I might not have said what I meant to very clearly. It’s not that I think you should hate your friend (or any Republican/conservative etc…). I absolutely think that people can find common ground and love each other despite different beliefs or experiences, and I think you make a lot of points about why and how that is true.
What I mean is that I think it is more complicated than you’re portraying it to be. You’re concentrating just on the fact that you disagree, and that you can come together because there are other things you do agree on. I’m with you on that.
But considering how personal what you disagree on is, I just don’t believe that you never feel conflicted. Or that it never hurts you to think that your friend, who is a “reliable and empathetic shoulder to cry on and a delightful person to laugh with” is, at the same time also a person who believes that you should not control your own body. It’s not abstract, like she thinks country music is better than punk. The political is personal and vice versa. When you’re laughing with her do you stop caring about marriage rights? Does she?
I don’t think you should apologize for loving your friend. I don’t think you should stop. I get that if you blindly cut off ties with everyone who thought differently than you it would mean the painful loss of a good friend. I just think that these friendships also involve a certain amount of sadness that you ignore. Because you’re friend is a great person who thinks some not-so-great things about you and people you care about.
We should reach out to people who feel differently than we do. But it’s not easy and often comes with deeply personal hurt feelings and anger. The kind that can’t be made up for just because you have a sense of humor.
@margosita: No, of course we don’t stop caring about marriage rights or abortion rights when we come together with friends who disagree with us. But my life and my friendships are about MUCH more than those two issues.
I can handle contradiction and dissent with my friends without feeling conflicted about who I am or what my views are.
Maybe you just have a broader range and type of friends, Becky. I don’t tend to have a lot of casual friends or acquaintances, or if I do I don’t consider them friends. All the friends I have I share EVERYTHING with; I’m extremely open to the point of having no filter and can’t imagine having a friendship where there would be an issue we wouldn’t talk about. Much less can I imagine sleeping with someone (more than once)who I would withhold that kind of information (like if I had had an abortion) from. But if I were the kind of person who had like casual friends who I got drinks with or something but didn’t share everything with maybe I would feel differently. I sort of can’t imagine that kind of friendship though.
@Becky: It sounds like you have such a strong friendship that the two of you leave this subject alone for the sake of your friendship. But wow, friends who think you’re going to hell… I don’t know. The more I think about this, the more I think it’s a personality thing. I have an extremely religious acquaintance, and even though he has always been very cordial to me, I couldn’t get past the woman problem. (I won’t go into details–I wasn’t projecting woman problems on him because of his religion, I knew for a fact what his beliefs were.) I have otherwise like-minded friends who developed friendships with him and ended up very hurt when his true feelings came out. For a long time, I felt guilty for “judging him” or holding his culture/religion against him, but the truth is, we could never be friends.
Sometimes, being friends with or dating members of the other side just leads to converting them, accidentally! My husband self-identified as conservative when we met– he grew up evangelical, and that was that. But at the time that we met, he was already starting to realize that his old labels didn’t fit, and was making some new conclusions. Yeah, we had our biggest fight ever when almost 2 years into dating, he voted Bush and I voted Kerry. But now that we’ve been together nearly 5 years, we actually happen to agree on just about everything. Not because I actively tried to convert him, but because he just sort of realized that he actually agreed with my side. We both proudly voted for Obama this time around.
Many of my closest friends from college, poli sci majors like myself, were quite conservative. I even roomed with one. I actually find that I get along better with politically aware conservatives than I do with people who just don’t care about politics at all. I’d rather have a spirited debate than have someone give me a blank stare when I bring up an issue or event that I care about. Someone recently asked one of my republifriends how we do it, and he said, “It’s a delicate balance between a deep respect for each other and a total contempt for each other’s parties.”
That said, things aren’t always easy when dealing with my husband’s family. Recently though, my husband’s father, in response to being emailed a letter to the editor I had written and had published, wrote to tell us that while we may disagree on politics, he wants us to know he loves us and supports us 100% and is glad to see that we are working to do something about things we care about. So, the man may fight with me about everything from welfare to evolution, but we know we love each other and sometimes we both just need to shut up. Which is what my wonderful mother in law is for: changing the subject.
I’m one of those ‘argue-and-eat-pie’ types, relishing the opportunity both to get into things politically, and then to kick back and talk about. . . whatever. Yes, we have our differences, but we don’t have to be enemies.
Still, I think it’s useful to consider the various arenas in which we get to know one another. I’ll talk to anyone in a public forum—and that includes the hater. I won’t, however, invite that person into my home. The difficulty for me is in deciding who counts as a hater. The racial supremacist is an easy call; what of the person who has views about women or LGBT folk which I find obtuse? They don’t take pride in their phobias, but they don’t necessarily see them as problemmatic, either. And what of the person who you got to know in a work or in a social setting, and only later found out had those phobic views?
I tend to think that if you like a person, why not go with it? In other words, be generous with both that person and yourself: Open yourself to that person, and ask her about herself. Maybe you’ll find you’re not really all that companionable after all, but maybe you’ll discover a funny, kind, complicated friend who’ll piss you off sometimes. Maybe the complications will be worth it.
I grew up in a small midwestern town where I was known as ‘the radical’. Most of my peers didn’t care for politics, and of those who did, a fair number didn’t care for my politics. No matter. We ate brats and drank beer and argued and danced and dragged one another into adulthood. It wasn’t a bad way to grow up.
It’s still not a bad way to live. I get that not everyone wants such complications, but now, living in NYC, I miss them. I’m glad that most people I know share my political views, and yeah, I can (and do) visit conservative websites for a hit of reality from the other side. Still, I miss how the friction of alternate political and religious sensibilities can inform, and even deepen, a relationship.
And as for the question about maintaining a friendship with someone who thinks you’re going to hell, well, I know what that’s like. Frankly, I think it’s harder for her to believe that people she loves will be shut out of heaven than it is for me to know this.
@BeckySharper “And you make a good point: if 46% of people voted for John McCain and a third of people in the US identify as evangelical Christians, does that mean that they’re all bad people and we should shun them? That’s not going to help anyone in the long run, including us.”
My roommate’s boyfriend voted for John McCain, and when I learned this he became someone that I could not be friends with. It’s not that he’s necessarily a bad person–I recognize that not everyone who votes Republican is a gun-toting woman-hating homophobic asshole. He voted for McCain because he felt that in a wartime situation, the government needed a president who had been in a war. Which, though I vehemently disagree, isn’t a dead-to-me kind of opinion.
But the fact is that John McCain was against abortion rights and any semblance of gay rights. As a bisexual woman dating a man, these are two points on which I am extremely, extremely sensitive. My roommate’s boyfriend, then, thought that it was more important to have a president who had served in war than it was to have a president who sees me as a human being instead of a baby-incubator. He’s not anti-abortion or anti-gay; he just doesn’t really care enough about either of those issues to vote democrat (or other). Which is an ideological hierarchy that I am not comfortable with.
My grandmother is the only conservative person I love. My brother works for a republican and thinks that Ann Coulter is awesome and that Bill O’Reilly is smart. My whole family thinks I’m going to burn in hell because of my politics and my lack of church-going–and they don’t even know that I identified as “basically gay” before I met my current boyfriend. I don’t mind that they think I’m going to hell because I don’t go to church–their opinions have no affect on the actual state of my soul or afterlife options. But that my brother worked agsint, that his boss voted against, that my brother raised money for and actively campaigned against the gay marriage bill in NY is not the same. He actively is trying to fuck up my life, whether he knows it or not. And this stuff isn’t like a reveal–”surprise! I’m a queer and your daughter and it turns out that Gays aren’t the Other that you thought they were! Let’s eat some pie!” Because it’s more like, “Surprise! Your family hates gay people more than they love you! It’s not that gays are just like us, it’s that YOU are ONE OF THEM.” I still buy my brother the requisite Dave Mathews Band CD for christmas every year, but I’m not close to him, I don’t like him, and I don’t really love him either.
It’s not that all conservatives are bad, but I can’t be friends with someone who is against abortion, because they vote, they vote their beliefs into office, and then those politicians that they put into office prevent me from controlling my body. Their anti-abortion stance (even if they’re not activists) directly affects my uterus. I mean, jesus, I can’t even be friends with people who don’t at least recognize that being a vegetarian is morally superior to eating meat (I’m not a vegetarian) because of environmental reasons. How the heck could I be friends with someone who thinks that my body isn’t mine? Or that gay people are fundamentally different from straight ones? Or that their religion should affect their government?
Becky, you said, “she’s a very kind and loving person, and easy to get along with”
The thing is–I think that being against gay marriage is fundamentally incompatible with “kind and loving.” Being against abortion–maybe less so, I think that there are loving people who think that abortion really kills babies and do everything they can to stop abortions (including providing BC and helping pregnant women get through their pregnancies and stuff). But being against gay marriage is bigotry*, and there’s no love in bigotry.
PS. I don’t mean to dis your friend or your friendship. I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with this. Like, how can I love my mother if I know that my mother would disown me if she knew I am queer? How can I stand my brother if I know that he actively campaigns against abortion and gay marriage? The only one that I can actively deal with is my grandmother, even though she is her city’s Women’s Republican Club president. She’s also 75 and will be like, “No! Abortion is wrong! But you know obviously there are times when someone needs to get an abortion, so I don’t think it should be illegal or anything.” Which I know is contradictory, but…she’s my grandmother. But I didn’t pick her to be my grandmother and half raise me. I don’t think I would have, as much as I love her.
*Unless you are all radical, like, “Why do the gays want to marry? ABOLISH ALL MARRIAGE!” like in Itty Bitty Titty Committee.
I recently realized how close-minded to Republicans I am recently. A guy who wants to date me talked about how he was more Republican, and then went on to say how democrats were sort of ruining the economy (even though he never reads the news or listens to it on the radio, but whatever. He didn’t even know Dick Cheney was VP during the Bush Administration.) It pretty much ruined how I looked at him.
@Cimorene: “It’s not that all conservatives are bad, but I can’t be friends with someone who is against abortion, because they vote, they vote their beliefs into office, and then those politicians that they put into office prevent me from controlling my body. Their anti-abortion stance (even if they’re not activists) directly affects my uterus. I mean, jesus, I can’t even be friends with people who don’t at least recognize that being a vegetarian is morally superior to eating meat (I’m not a vegetarian) because of environmental reasons. How the heck could I be friends with someone who thinks that my body isn’t mine?”
Judge much?
Your intolerance is not superior to “their” intolerance. It’s all just intolerance.
Actually Becky I am not sure that Cimorene’s (and my?) intolerance of conservatives is the same as intolerance of gays, women who want abortions, etc. Because she is in no way trying to limit their ability to live as they see fit or to advocate for a diminution of rights, as they are to us. Also the intolerance is based on an ideological difference, which to me is of a different order than unchanging or unchosen characteristics.
@JDRegent: I was specifically talking about Cimorene’s intolerance of people who refuse to believe–as she does–that it’s wrong to eat meat. That’s a choice. It’s also a choice to believe that abortion is wrong. Just because you don’t agree with some’s choice doesn’t mean it’s automatically okay to demonize them and be all judgey and “ZOMG, I CAN’T RESPECT YOU, YOU’RE NOT MY FRIEND!”
Also, someone’s anti-abortion stance DOES NOT affect my uterus. Not in this country, anyway, thanks to the hard work of pro-choice advocates. Whatever they might LIKE to do to my uterus, they CANNOT. That’s an important distinction.