My thoughts exactly. Via Sister72 @ Flickr.
I have an oooooolllllld friend (I think I’ve known him 20 years now) whom I had lost track of, and was very happy to find on Facebook. Although I haven’t seen him since our college years, we’ve caught up, reminisced, swapped recipes, talked politics, et cetera. It’s good.
This friend has two preschool-age kids and is himself back in school, while his wife is “in the professions,” as they say, so as the SAHD, many of his status updates are about his kid-wrangling adventures. Some are funny, some aren’t. Like the one he posted late last week, which went something like this.
Dork’s Friend has picked up the house, bathed the kids, and roasted a chicken all before 6pm. Ladies?
There were a few comments from “ladies” like “Friend’s Wife is a lucky woman!” and “Can you teach my husband how to do that? LOL” HUR HUR HUR MEN R LAZY AND USELESS. NO. He’s smarter than that. He better be smarter than that. So I added my own comment, which looked something like this:
Wow, Friend, you’ve just managed to do what millions of women all over the world do every. single. day, without looking for strokes. Here’s your cookie.
I worried, after the fact, that my comment sounded too harsh, too bitchy. Had I said it to him, I could have indicated that I was affectionately–but pointedly–razzing him for a neanderthal attitude, but it’s hard to indicate tone while typing. I kept fearing a nasty response, either from my friend, or one of his friends. It didn’t come, and so I clicked over to his page with the intent of seeing if what I’d done was, in retrospect, inappropriate, and possibly following up. The status update and its subsequent comments (including mine) were gone. They had been replaced with this:
Dork’s Friend made a dumb, condescending, chauvinistic joke on one of his status updates yesterday, for which he apologizes. And thank you to the person who pointed it out and put him in his place. He is now leaving 1952.
Sweet. I knew I liked that guy.
All this to say two things:
1) Even “good guys,” allies, will occasionally say and/or do dumbass things. If they’re really good guys, they’ll cop to it and apologize.
2) Speak up. Choose your words and tone to fit the occasion and relationship, but don’t be silent. Maybe you won’t get the response you’d prefer (you know anything about that, Becky Sharper?), but maybe you will. Maybe what you’ll say will snap someone out of 1952.
I didn’t change the world, exactly, but maybe I changed a mind. It’s a start.
P.S. I just this morning got an email from Friend, thanking me “for pointing out what an ass [he] sounded like last week….Old sexist habits die hard.” Extra sweet.
Okay, that dude just gave me some hope for dudekind! He is most definitely worthy of your friendship. Kudos to him, and to you for giving him a (polite but firm) nudge. Evolution: UR DOIN IT RITE.
This is a great contrast to what happened when SarahMC took on her male friend over his FB status update about babysitting his own kids.
http://www.harpyness.com/2009/03/06/pet-peeve-dads-who-babysit-their-kids/
I think it’s awesome that you pointed it out, and super awesome that he got it and responded appropriately.
My husband and I have these enlightening moments frequently – wherein I point out his lack of critical response to above type comments, and he responds with something along the lines of, “Yeah, you’re right. Thanks for pointing that out.” And I sigh, and am happy that while I’m clearly the more critical feminist of the two (makes sense; it’s more germane to my existence) he’s becoming more aware every day.
Wow, that’s great. I recently had an old friend from college update their status to say: “It’s always hilarious to see girls who used to be straight up cum dumpsters get married.” I could only respond, Jesus. It’s a disgusting statement for many reasons, and even more disgusting that several people found it funny.
But sadly, I don’t feel I can say much about it to him and the commenters because I used to be pretty free-wheelin’ and sexually adventurous (i.e., a slut) in college. I don’t feel like rehashing that time in my life — which was difficult for many reasons besides the sexing — or arguing with people I know well enough to know they won’t understand why that’s wrong.
Which is all to say, I wish I had male friends and cojones like PhDork.
Good for you PhDork!!
On another note, why do we care so much about what people think about our comments on social networking sites? I don’t have Facebook, and it’s a good thing, too, judging by all the negative posts I read about here on Harpyness. I understand it’s a great way to stay in contact with the people we care about, but to those ‘friends’ I hear about so often that have the “It’s always hilarious to see girls who used to be straight up cum dumpsters get married” status updates–why are they your friends?!!??!
I mean all that in a general way, not to attack anyone.
That’s awesome! I’m trying to figure out how to speak up around some of my own friends, particularly men but some women as as well, when they make thoughtless sexist or racist jokes, without coming off like a humorless bitch (as some of them I’m sure would likely say).
“I didn’t change the world, exactly, but maybe I changed a mind. It’s a start.” That’s definitely an accomplishment!
@CloudsInMyCoffee: Holy frijoles, that is terrible! Ugh! I would have no idea how to respond either. It’s one of those things where if you respond at all, you’re likely to be implicated along with the “cum dumpsters.” Goddamn patriarchy.
Now I need to re-read PhDork’s account of the Awesome Facebook Minor Victory to get the taste out of my mouth. PhDork ftw!
I love this itty bitty victory. Much more satisfying than my own attempt to enlighten.
Clouds, your friend’s is hard to tackle because there are two layers of wrong: calling a woman a cum dumpster, and the belief that women who’ve slept around can’t or shouldn’t “settle down.”
You might just say, “why?” When people are asked to explain a bigoted joke, they often get embarassed and fumble. Or they admit to being sexist pigs and you can just give some faux pity.
Great story, PhDork.
I recently called out a guy friend of mine for casually referring to something as stalking that was, in fact, nothing of the sort. Basically, he’s gotten a few texts from someone and it seems that the person has the wrong number. He hasn’t replied to any of these texts, so the sender may not even know they have the wrong number. Anyway, he jokingly said he was being “stalked” by this person, and another female friend and I were like “No. Really, no.” We explained that stalking was serious business – I mentioned that a women’s rights advocate had just been killed by her stalker (http://www.feministing.com/archives/015360.html); my friend mentioned that her mother had to be snuck out of her apartment in college by the police so her stalker couldn’t find her. Still not sure if he got why it bothered us so much, but at least we tried.
SarahMC, I agree. If someone says something sort of thoughtless/heartless, they may not even realize they’re being sexist–they might just be repeating stuff they heard, thinking it was “funny”. It makes me want to jump down peoples’ throats, but I’ve found that often it’s a lot easier to just gently say “Why would you say something like that?” or “Why would you call her that?” And see what kind of discussion ensues.
Sure, a brief discussion won’t change someone’s attitudes entirely, but it might get them thinking, if only for a few minutes. Sometimes people will get butthurt that you didn’t think that their lame shock-jock shtick is TEH FUNNIES!!1, but the only way to change peoples’ minds about stupid sexist ideas is to get them thinking about WHY those attitudes are hurtful, y’know?
@ Clouds – I fall back on Sarah’s advice “Why?” often. I also like, “I don’t get it…” I feel like simple questions confuse people, and force them to consider what the implications of what they said actually are.
Of course, sometimes it’s better to just leave dumbasses alone…
@SarahMC, tscheese, & TVille: Thanks for the advice. It did bother me both for the vile language (which tscheese aptly described as shock-jock) and the implication that “sluts” aren’t worthy of falling in love and getting married. I’m going to try to work up the nerve to ask that simple question… who knows if it’ll do anything, but it’s worth doing, I think. You are all wise and wonderful women.
@JessMess: I understand your point. Facebook comes with a weird set of politics, rules, etc. that are all supposed and all malleable, which makes it hard to navigate sometimes. Plus, it’s difficult to engage in an honest debate through that medium, especially with that person’s friends — whom I may or may not know — can chime in and assume whatever they want about me.
I think we care what others say on social network sites because those are used as ways to communicate with a lot of people at once. And so small comments can make an impact.
@CloudsinMyCoffee: I liked your answer, that makes sense.
I hear a lot about smart ladies like us Harpies having their FB ‘friends’ say stupid shit like that all the time. Why are we ‘friends’ with morons like that?
@Clouds – Unless there is some deeper reason to remain that person’s friend, don’t. They don’t respect you because they don’t respect women who you identify with and don’t feel women should be able to make sexual decisions without being ashamed of them.
I don’t know the underlying relationship here, but some people it’s better just to write off.
Hey, y’all. I’ve been out today–last day of a contract, there was celebrating and such.
Just wanted to add that if I hadn’t gotten a good response, I wasn’t sure what I would do. Send a personal e-mail to discuss the issue? De-friend? I can’t be sure. At the time, though, I just thought “I can’t NOT say something.”
It’s a tough call, no doubt about it. If Friend had responded with one or more of the rote anti-feminist responses (what Becky’s been getting from the coffee shop), I might have given it another round of patient explanation, but after a while, it’s trying to catch water in a sieve. I’m not saying “you MUST say something, every time;” I just wanted to encourage you to follow your instincts about these things. You probably know who is a jerkass (and yeah, as bellacoker says, why FB-friend that?) and who isn’t.
I think it’s worth the risk, though, to voice your concerns. If you don’t change a mind, at least you’ll know who you shouldn’t be spending your time and energy on.
That was nice of him. There is hope.
Mini-update on my ‘cum dumpster’ situation: You folks gave me both a bit of courage and a lot of insight, and so I did both things: Asked why he thought that comment was funny and, when no response was offered, de-friended him and another FB friend who thought it was ‘hilarious!’
And you know what? This very small, confined example really opened my eyes to my tendencies to sometimes be overly Southern in my desire to not offend, and my rationalization of male actions that I would never accept from my female friends. Those two characteristics have led me to pursue and stay in relationships with men who said and did terrible things to me. Those characteristics have kept me from pushing forward in my career until recently. And I have always loathed my inability to give someone a deserving FUCK OFF.
Which is all to say: This site, its authors, and its commenting community push me to examine myself in new light, and make me a better woman, feminist, and person. Thank you all!
That is awesome, and it makes me think… my boyfriend rocks! The only time I can recall, in the five years that I’ve known him, that I have ever heard him say something rather sexist, I told him I didn’t appreciate it. He said something to the effect of, “I never thought of it that way. I won’t say it again.”
He is an awesome, unabashedly pro-feminist dude who speaks his mind when he hears something he thinks is inappropriate, and I loves him.
Aw, CloudsinmyCoffee, good for you! That makes me all squidgy and stuff. I know that couldn’t have been easy, and you stuck to your guns. I think we’re going to have to come up with “Harpy Heroics” award or something. Who knows if the jerkhole learned anything (I’ll continue to hope), but you did. And that? Is awesome.