Comments on: For the Record: The Meaning of Satire

By: Gallivant » And Now I Have Lost My Favourite Take-Away

Gallivant » And Now I Have Lost My Favourite Take-Away — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:51:48 +0000

[...] this is a really good article on the difference between satire and bullshit offensive [...]

By: BeckySharper

BeckySharper — Thu, 21 May 2009 13:55:51 +0000

@Eeva: You make a good point, and I think you’re right that in context it seems more likely to be satirical and the author was going for satire. But it does read like a piss-take, and piss-takes are very hard to pull off as satire because they’re nearly always mean-spirited (I mean, really, the upshot of the piece was “you working women are ruining society for us menz”, which is certainly said in hateful earnest all the time). Also, it just plain wasn’t funny….

By: emilyanne

emilyanne — Thu, 21 May 2009 13:39:39 +0000

Eeva – completely off context but I was bought up with my father’s mutterings that the Irish Times was the paper of the Dublin establishment. Although it has definitely changed.

On track, i think it was intended as satire, I didn’t think it was especially well-written or perceptive satire. And I say that as someone whose parents are Irish (although admittedly I grew up in London)

By: Eeva

Eeva — Thu, 21 May 2009 10:20:39 +0000

I would still argue that Emerson’s piece in the Irish Times was in fact satire – to use the language of your perfect definition, he took a premise that was, in all seriousness, being suggested by some people as reasonable (“if women hadn’t started working outside the home, things would be better”), and took it to a ridiculous conclusion (“Women caused the credit crunch and their jobs should all be abolished”).

I just think there’s a cultural context, an Irish twist, that didn’t come across to non-Irish people. Because the Irish Times is my paper of choice, and it’s lefty and feminist in general and Newton Emerson writes piss-takes, not offensive rants.

I’m sorry if I’m not being clear, and I don’t like to undermine anyone’s feelings of offence, but in this case as an Irish person I think I have some extra insight. And some extra hangover.

By: vegkitty

vegkitty — Wed, 20 May 2009 19:11:10 +0000

Thank you, thank you, A MILLION TIMES THANK YOU for this post. It immediately got linked on my facebook. I’m an English major, and it BEYOND bothers me when people either claim something as satire when it’s obviously not or when it completely goes over their heads.

Another good example of satire, by the way, is Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World.” He takes the problems he sees in his society (social stratification, focus on self-gratification, drug use, eugenics to an extent) and exacerbates them. This is partly why the novel is so shocking to us… it’s satire that’s coming true.

Anyhow, keep up the good work!

By: emilyanne

emilyanne — Wed, 20 May 2009 18:27:08 +0000

JessMess, they actually made a pilot of it in the US but it was pulled asap – if you google it you’ll see that Simon Pegg was particularly unamused about the whole thing, especially the way in which they practically wrote Jessica Stevenson’s involvement out.

By: JessMess

JessMess — Wed, 20 May 2009 16:55:59 +0000

@emilyanne: Thanks for mentioning my favorite show, Spaced!!!! I definitely think that it wouldn’t work here–too smart and people wouldn’t ‘get it’.

By: HistoricUpstart

HistoricUpstart — Wed, 20 May 2009 16:41:00 +0000

Maybe when the capitalist/imperialist US empire crumbles the way Britain’s has, which is hopefully already happening, we will finally see ourselves as not ALWAYS the winners or the best, and our comedy will evolve the way British comedy has? (I’m not sure if what I just wrote makes any sense!)

By: emilyanne

emilyanne — Wed, 20 May 2009 15:20:06 +0000

Or to put it another way – America likes success and prefers its characters achieve a measure of it, whereas in Britain we’re most comfortable when bitching about failure and predicting bad things coming our way, thus our comedies centre around losers. We could never make Friends or even Sex and The City, the US wouldn’t make Spaced, Peep Show or Pulling. (Although oddly I believe they’re trying with the latter).

By: PhDork

PhDork — Wed, 20 May 2009 15:17:35 +0000

emilyanne, you're totally right about The Office/s. I think that's why I prefered the UK version (also because they knew to END the story, instead of all this jumping-the-shark eloping/not-eloping/suprise pregnancy nonsense).