As for what the pro-choice side should admit — I disagree, and here’s why. I think women should be able to talk about their abortions however they choose. They should be able to joke if they want or sob if they want. Like any other experience, abortion is not the same for every woman. I agree that the pro-choice side should acknowledge that abortion can be an experience that is sad, gut-wrenching, or agonizing, and I think that almost all of us do. But it’s not always that way, and we shouldn’t make everyone pretend like it is. The experiences of women who joke about their abortions are just as valid as the experiences of women who sob (and sometimes people even do both or neither!).

sarahmc, both sides must concede the following:

anti-abortion: that outlawing abortions will not make the need or occurrence of abortions cease at all. that outlawing abortions will not make all women give birth to happy healthy babies that will be raised in happy, healthy homes.

pro-choice: that the act of abortion is of itself not as simple as elective plastic surgery. you may argue that most pro-choicers already know that, but reading about women saying that they just loooooooooved getting their abortion and would do it again, however tongue-in-cheek it may be, just reinforces that many pro-choice people feel abortion is just a simple, routine procedure and it really isn’t.

that is how i see it. i’m probably completely, ethically, intellectually ridiculous to you, but it’s my opinion.
and now, i’m walking away.

This is a serious question and I’m curious about your answer, Rednrowdy.

It’s a well supported fact that women have abortions whether they are safe and legal or not, whether or not you like to think about it or hear it from people who don’t know you. I stand by this; it’s something more anti-choicers ought to think about if they really care to help women and babies.

The anti-choice folks I know are moderates and they are otherwise nice people. They would hate to be called nasty zealots, as you called them. As I said to Miss Pinot:
“I’ll bet that apart from your desire to compromise my health and freedom, you’re a fine and compassionate person, just like the anti-choicers I know.”

These are people I’ve grown up with, whose children’s names I’ve piped on birthday cakes. We treat each other with genuine kindness, and if they knew I was pro-choice, I don’t think that would change. Still, they are working to take away my right to health and privacy, and according to their beliefs, I support mass murder on a scale that exceeds the Holocaust. They do believe in fighting righteous wars and the death penalty for terrible criminals, as do a large percentage of Americans and the most prominent anti-choice faith leaders. Thus, they do not believe that only god can take away a man’s life. It requires dissonance at a certain level for us to get along.

That you have had exams at PP actually indicates nothing about your political position. I know one anti-choice woman(not a friend) who believed they were an evil organization, with a mission of racial eugenics. She went there anyway when she felt she needed an abortion for herself. They serve many anti-choice women, even their own protesters.

It is bizarre and illogical for you to conflate anti-choice Americans with Muslims everywhere. Most Muslims do not believe that America is the great satan, a belief not found in the Koran. All anti-choicers believe that abortion is murder. The anti-choice movement regularly employs tactics meant to incite hatred and violence towards doctors, including calling them “mass murderers”, publishing wanted lists with crossed off names of those they have already killed, publishing photos of faces, home addresses, and license plates, etc. The man in custody for killing Dr. Tiller has been found on Operation Rescue message boards from years ago discussing bringing him to justice. He is not one lone bad apple. The movement has to take responsibility for its messages.

This serves only to reinforce my point: as long as neither side is willing to concede *philosophically*, there is no middle ground to find. If the anti-choicers are willing to concede that their philosophy is wrong, just like Egypt did to Israel, then great! I’ll work with them all they want! But I don’t see that happening any time soon, do you?

all of these murders are disgusting and abominable and anyone who is cheering them is also disgusting and abominable. full stop.