Comments on: President Obama in Cairo

By: Ayla

Ayla — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:20:39 +0000

Russ, with all due respect, you’re missing the point.

The US doesn’t have the authority to tell Saudi Arabia what to do, obviously. But we do have a choice in who we call friends. And a nation with HORRIFIC human rights violations should NOT be our friend. We should be offering help to people who want to escape and condemning those who would keep them in oppression.

By: WestVillageGirl

WestVillageGirl — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:28:16 +0000

Ladies, I’ve just about had it with Jezebel. I can’t believe there was no mention of this speech other than a two-line item by Megan in News at 10. THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE SENSE to comment about this. I’m sorry I’m late to the game.

By: brindey weber

brindey weber — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:30:39 +0000

I think the concept of “audience” was very relevant in his point-making. I ask this.
In 1950, did American feminists have to make the statement that it was “ok” for women to choose a “more traditional” role and stay at home? No. They had already been in the home.
When President Obama made the statement “I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles.” he gave a loophole for officials to keep women cloistered away and repressed, but still claim to be forward-thinking and “equal.”
I realize President Obama included “But it should be their choice.” I have two things to say to that. 1. When quoted, that segment will be left out for the quoter’s own purposes. 2. Choice is relative and manipulation and control of women used to thousands of of years of repression won’t be hard.
I like President Obama. But I will believe in the positive affects of his latest speech when I see them.

By: SarahMC

SarahMC — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:20:39 +0000

To clarify, I thought this speech was very impressive. And I recognize that there's a difference between what I want to happen and what I understand can happen. Basically I think it's wrong for us to be an ally to a regime that commits heinous human rights abuses, like Saudi Arabia.

By: swedishfishing

swedishfishing — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:57:13 +0000

I actually think Obama is making a really crucial point here that fundamentally respects the rights and agency of women of all cultures and faiths. Before you get angry, just hear me out.

I read a really great article last year by Zillah Eisenstein that discussed the role of global feminisms and global misogyny following September 11. There is a tendency in superficial discussions of women’s rights in the Middle East to assume that they are, as Eisenstein says, “burkha-covered creatures in need of saviors.” I definitely don’t think many feminists would say that, but there’s a definite tendency for the media to present a very one-sided, monolithic view of Middle Eastern women, with the idea that there are no feminists in, for example, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, and that they need Western women’s cultural values instead of their own.

For that reason, I think it’s great to see an acknowledgment of the fact that the hijab and traditional gender roles are not inherently oppressive. The oppression, of course, comes with lack of choice. We can all certainly agree on that I hope. One of the more interesting points that Obama makes though, is that women aren’t particularly free here in the US either. Clearly we are better off than women in Saudi Arabia because we don’t need male escorts, but I think the point is that a lot of Islamic feminists would not be happy with the particular type of constrained choice that we have here, either, so it’s very important to actually listen to what their priorities are.

And honestly, I’m really not a cultural relativist. I just think it’s important to listen to people. In any case, I agree that education is crucial.

By: Russ

Russ — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 02:45:51 +0000

His speech was perfect. Declaring Religious Law completely unacceptable is over the line though. It’s no different than those that belive that Americans should convert to Islam or die. No country should dictate another coutry’s religous laws. That is bullying and that’s how wars get started.

By: J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:02:35 +0000

Bears, you make a good point. I thought it was very savvy of Obama to speak to the Israel/Palestine issue because it really does reverberate throughout the world Islamic community, as do our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I understand there to be a kind of pan-Arab identity that animates a lot of terrorist (and non terrorist, obvs) organizations so it is legitimate in a sense, and I think Obama was right to frame it that way. But when we’re talking about human rights, we are talking about state responsibilities, and in a national context the barriers to womens progress are very diverse.

By: BearDownCBears

BearDownCBears — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:20:14 +0000

@JD: My impression is that academia and politicians and local populations are a little schizo about the concept of the “Muslim World”. I remember when, in college, there was the big to-do over Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations paper, and my Islamic Politics prof went apeshit (as she should have), pointing out that the thesis runs roughshod over individual grievances and histories that must be delineated rather than swept up in an overarching, easily digestable neo-crusade narrative. Also, that a worldwide caliphate is a realistic possibility is pretty much just wank material for right wingers and fundie Osamaphiles. But then again, there is intra-religious sympathy between Muslim-heavy populations. The Iraq occupation got Muslim populations pretty riled up. One of the biggest paradoxes in the Arab world, as I understand it, is that Syrians or Iranians or what have you will bemoan the situation in the Holy Land while still treating Palestinian refugees and migrants like dirt.

I think Obama will be fine addressing Muslims on a macro level because he won’t pollute his foreign policy with simple, patronizing ideology like W. did, which means hashing out Egyptian women’s issues separately from Afghani women’s issues. In other words, don’t do this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/international/middleeast/28hughes.html

By: Shannon

Shannon — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:54:29 +0000

I don’t really see how the US issuing ultimatums to other governments is productive in any way shape or form. Excising the US’s influence on a country (which is a highly questionable influence internationally) is not going to “teach” other nations or encourage them to come groveling back to us. The power relationship implied in the ability to condone and condemn with some sort of tangible effect is also highly insulting. This is a complex social and cultural situation and as was pointed out in this blog a few weeks ago about FGM, you can’t march in with your own culturally conditioned values and declare yourself there to rescue the victims. As several commenters before me have pointed out, I think Obama made a wise move in leaning more heavily on this issue without using language or rhetoric that would completely alienate his audience (which, let’s be clear, is not us, it’s the Arab world).

On the issue of education, I lived in the UAE for seven years and found that, among upper and middles class Arab women, at least, extremely high value placed on education up to and including university education. Most of those women who had MBAs and other degrees ultimately ended up staying at home and raising children. Making education available is not the end of the solution nor is it as simple as education being valued or not or available or not.

By: wondering

wondering — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:47:53 +0000

Saudia Arabia law requires that each female, regardless of age, be assigned a male guardian – be it a father, a husband, or even a son – who must give permission for their charges to do everything from travel abroad to study or seek medical care. This effectively deprives women of their most basic rights and makes their participation in public life far more difficult.

Any democratic country who considers this country a friend and ally is turning a blind eye to systematic human rights abuse.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42074