I have been gone for awhile attending to the increasingly shamble-riffic state of my personal and professional lives, as subject for another post I suppose, but relevant to this one insofar that I have had a lot of Twisty to catch up on this weekend. Er, or, I thought I did, until I got over there and discovered that some person named “Jill” has taken over. It has taken me some time to get through the prior posts and the comments leading up to this transfer of power. But since I loved Twisty, I was sort of worried this all meant that whoever had been ghostwriting her had quit the blog and handed it over to someone else.
Happily, as it turns out, Jill is just Twisty’s real name. Unhappily, the switch seems to have been prompted by some kind of commenter shitfit over the fact that Twisty/Jill referred to a writer she disliked as “cuntalina.” (Read the linked post to get the whole story.)
Now, I am on record somewhere, I think, as disliking the word “cunt.” My dislike of it is inconsistent with my general love of swearing; as the other Harpies can attest, especially once I have a drink or two in me I share vocabulary with ship crews everywhere. But I find the word ugly, even phonetically unpleasant. I directed the Vagina Monologues awhile back, and the actress we had performing the “Cunt” monologue and I puzzled at length over it, because we found it hard to make the word even sound beautiful, sound like something worth having in our arsenal. I have since only seen that monologue done well once, and there it was because the actress framed the monologue as an argument for ferocity of women, which I suppose is the only logical solution, although it runs somewhat counter to the text.
That said, we were just two women among multitudes, and I have known many feminists who love the word, and who use it as an insult particularly. This seems to me to be a usage that is entirely other than a reclamation, but no matter. I’m not interested in telling women who have demonstrated commitment to feminist aims in other ways what language they can and should use. Usually I’ll say something about always having found “vagina” to be a sufficient description and leave it at that.
I thought about this as I read Twisty/Jill’s post, wherein she acknowledges that “cuntalina” is an anti-feminist slur, and then notes, correctly in my view, that she is not some Internet paragon of feminist perfection but a human being prone to impulsive behaviour just like anyone else. And then she says this:
But seriously, get off my fucking case already with this hypervigilant radfem hall monitor shit. The policey, self-righteous, gotcha bullshit around here generally is chapping my entire hide. When and if I commit some egregious ideological error that threatens the very fabric of the cosmos I’ll make Twisty fucking cop to it, as you fucking well know if you’ve been reading this blog for more than five minutes. But this cuntalina uproar is fucking absurd. Jayzus in a jetpack.
As in most things, Twisty is completely right. And it gets at something very fundamental that’s been bugging me lately.
As we know from PhDork, anger is useful. Anger can drive you to action.
But anger can also make you a cannibal to true allies, and frankly, set you gnawing at yourself. Which is what I have been doing for awhile, and it’s got. to. stop.
Now, as we know I have never been one to advocate treading lightly with anti-feminists. I still don’t think it’s worth couching our terms nicely so that “they” will listen. Their ears are closed from the outset of the conversation, I think, and I think that the only way they will understand their privilege is to angrily confront it.
But I am tired of fighting each other. I am tired of not giving each other the benefit of the doubt. I am tired of yelling all the time and getting yelled at in return.
Not every self-identified feminist is going to act in the way you divine to be the correct one, no matter how much reading you do. When I was a bit younger and more discursively oriented, I thought that I could possibly convince everyone, by sheer force of verbiage, that I had found the right way. But over the course of my radicalization, I have learned that if we were all the same, there would be nothing left to learn. We would all sit in our apartments, nodding our heads, tunnel vision engaged on the acceptability or non-acceptability of “cunt.”
I guess I would rather be challenged. I guess I would rather have radical feminists who use “cunt” in moments of insouciance and don’t immediately commit internet hari kiri from the shame of it. I guess I would rather have women who call themselves “Womanists” than “feminists,” though it pains me somewhat. I would rather have it be that way so that my boundaries are pushed and pulled.
I think what I am trying to say is that of late I have not wondered if in my own personal spectrum I am starting to value generosity above anger as a feminist tool. I am starting to value engagement over confrontation when it comes to marginalized populations. I want to forgive slights so I can focus on fixing them Call me soft, if you want. Tell me I am capitulating. But I cannot keep slamming my head against every brick wall that appears before me and not feel like giving up anyway.
Cheesily, I guess, the way I want to put this is: I want my feminism to come from a place of yes.
I’m just not sure if that’s only wishful thinking.
I was just over at IBTP reading that before popping over here. While I understand that Twisty/Jill is human, and I don’t think the use of “cuntalina” undermines her body of work in any real way, if we’re going to agree that words have meanings, I don’t see why she can’t at the very least apologize for what she said. Even the most dogmatic and conscientious among us will occasionally slip up; this is the consequence of living in a patriarchal society. But I kind of felt like Jill was using some of the same excuses I hear from men who use gendered language.
“I think what I am trying to say is that of late I have not wondered if in my own personal spectrum I am starting to value generosity above anger as a feminist tool. I am starting to value engagement over confrontation when it comes to marginalized populations. I want to forgive slights so I can focus on fixing them Call me soft, if you want. Tell me I am capitulating. But I cannot keep slamming my head against every brick wall that appears before me and not feel like giving up anyway.”
I have sensed a similar shift in my own approach. I have more to say on this, but I cannot seem to form a coherent thought this morning, so maybe I will pop back into the thread later.
I did the same thing this weekend, logging onto IBTP after a long absence to find Jill. Jill! I was very disturbed until I was assured that blaming continues.
It’s tough to discern who is receptive to Feminism of Yes, and who is a concern troll (though among friends, absolutely, let’s forgive each other our lapses and good-faith disagreements). But then, if feminism has room for all of us, it also has room for good cops and bad cops. I think we need both.
I absolutely HATE the word “cunt” but I went on record about it in an earlier post, so that’s all I’ll say here.
I don’t think it’s soft or capitulating to engage with people rather than bashing them. You’re much more likely to affect change, gain allies, have success as a movement, etc. by being empathetic and–gasp!–KIND to people than by pouncing on them for every perceived anti-woman slight, particularly if the slight was unintentional or relatively mild. I’m not saying there isn’t a time to be hardcore, but it’s all a matter of picking your battles, IMO.
I believe in generosity, but it seems most people only value generosity when applied to themselves – Twisty/Jill included. I absolutely love her writing, but she is the original Radfem Hall Monitor. She used a slang word for vagina as an insult and was asked to explain herself. She didn’t, people continued asking, then she got indignant.
People mess up. But language matters, and I don’t think it’s beyond the pale to stop one another and challenge one another when it comes to vocabulary.
First of all, I’m sticking with anger.
Second of all, I’m with SarahMC here. She should have copped to it and put it to bed, rather than demurring and hedging and then getting all pissy.
Third of all: You didn’t know Jill was Twisty?
I can feel your blood pressure dropping through my computer screen, PS, and it warms the squishy place where my heart is supposed to be. I’m wound pretty fucking tight, but when it comes to confrontation I tend to go at it in a way that engages, that insists on some form of empathy so as to get at where the problem is coming from. (I’m talking about feminist in-fighting, for example, not “debating” raving anti-choice nutjobs – they can go fuck themselves.) It’s like my version of psychological warfare: if I’m asking you to explain where your ideas are coming from, to unpack your argument, I’m here, with you, in this discussion, sneakily insisting that you stay and hash it out; banging my head against a brick wall, which I’ve done plenty of, takes me out of the conversation and tells you that I never really wanted to hear what you had to say in the first place so why did you even bother?
Generosity does not have to be capitulation; it’s coming to the table with an active sense of solving the problem.
Now, to rid myself of this hippie shit: I love the word the “cunt,” sometimes as an insult but usually as an anatomical reference. “Pussy” makes me insane, as I find it just as phonetically grating as “panties,” “moist,” and all the other usual suspects. This doesn’t do much as a political gesture, but I use it as an insult with complete equality. I call men, women, and myself “cunts” when applicable, just as I call both men and women (and myself) “dicks,” “cocks,” and “assholes.” That last one is of course not charged with all the gender politics of using female anatomy as an insult, but when I’m called an asshole, by myself or others (it’s a nickname from a friend, and I have a nameplate necklace that says it), I have noticed that men are a bit surprised to see a women take on an epithet generally used for guys.
FaithandBegorrah, have to say i’m with you here – then again I grew up in a country where everyone is a cunt, whether male, female or otherwise, and the word is almost entirely devalued – after all when asked what you did last night in Scotland people are likely to say ‘I had a great time, got absolutely cunted’. I completely understand why it makes people uncomfortable and appreciate all the many sensible arguments against its use but personally it is not a word i’ve ever had an issue with, I find pussy more unpleasant for some reason and don’t get me started on the delightful Scots word ‘minge’.
@emilyanne: So you use “cunt” like “smurf”?
BearDownCBears – ha pretty much, although to be honest I don’t use it now at all because I live in the US and it’s much more offensive as a word here.
Periodically, my friends talk about whether they’re optimists or pessimists. Oftentimes, this discussion starts when people need to remark upon the astonishingly firm optimism of my primary partner, for whom the glass is seven-eights of the way full, no matter the circumstances.
Once upon a time, I used to consider myself my partner’s foil, a firm pessimist. After quitting my miserable job and then getting myself quite a bit of really good therapy, I’ve discovered I am not, as I’d previously thought, fundamentally pessimistic.
I’m fundamentally outraged. In the same way an optimist sees a glass as half-full, and a pessimist sees a glass as half-empty, my first reaction is outrage that the glass isn’t full. I have a lot of outrage in me; an endless supply, it seems.
In an attempt to channel this energy for good, or at least for lower blood-pressure, I have been attempting, over the past few years, to stop judging women. I started this project several years ago when it seemed like every feminist blog I was reading was having judge-fests about blow jobs and high heels. And I realized, after reading quite a bit of women calling other women unfeminist, that I wanted to Not Participate In That Discussion in some way other than simply keeping my opinion to myself.
I have made a pact with myself, to try to stop judging women for the choices we make. We live in an awful world, sometimes. The patriarchy is an environment in which we’re faced, over and over again, with no-win situations. I make hundreds of decisions each week where I find myself having to weigh the social consequences of my actions against how much energy I have left to struggle. So I have to forgive myself, on a regular basis, for sometimes having to just live in the world, instead of constantly struggling to change it. And that’s also taught me how to forgive other people for the same thing.
And from that perspective, when I first read Twisty’s/Jill’s not-an-apoloogy, I wasn’t really outraged at all. I’d wrinkled my nose a little when I saw her first post, as I don’t like it when people use women-associated-words as insults in general (I have a similar response to the use of “douchebag” over at Bitch Ph.D, despite a thoughtful deconstruction of the term-as-insult) and shrugged at the tone of her follow-up post. Of course she was defensive; she’d just got jumped-on by her allies. In that context, I think she gracefully acknowledged that she’s human, and she loses her temper, just like the rest of us do. And I’d rather see people do what she did — acknowledge that the word is, in fact, an anti-woman slur, and move on — than what I usually see people do, which is to cobble together a half-assed justification for why they weren’t actually guilty of speaking misogyny and then tacking on a “but I’m sorry if you’re offended” non-apology at the end.
And so, yes, I agree. We all need to cut each other a whole lot of slack, because we’re doing the best we can in an impossible world. And I think Twisty’s all the more the superhero for losing her temper & admitting it (even if she left the admission to herself-by-another-name).
I agree with SarahMC, Twisty/Jill would be the first person to call out a woman for using an offensive word to describe another woman. I like her writing too but its a little rich that all of a sudden language isn’t important to her and its just a joke and everyone should relax.
However I also take your larger point PS, and I agree that sometimes we need to keep the larger picture in mind and stop infighting to death.
. . . most people only value generosity when applied to themselves
This is the heart of the matter.
Everyone thinks *they* should be getting a pass. Y’all think the distinctly white-bread flavor of this blog should be excused, I think I should get a gold star for being a man who dares to comment here, and Jill/Twisty thinks her linguistic transgressions ought to be excused. You know what? We’re all right. Coming to a forum like this and arguing over who’s more hardcore or sending an electronic raiding party to another blog to make sure they toe some mythical ideological line makes about as much sense as a circular firing squad.
Snaps to PS for having the gonads to put herself out here like this.
Is “cuntalina” a common derivative of “cunt”? If it is I can see how this is questionable; but if it isn’t, it seems more that Twisty was being deliberately ironic, which would make this (in my opinion) a fairly different situation. I’m not necessarily Team-Twisty, but she pretty much chooses her words well.
Hill Rat, I disagree. (You’re shocked, I know.) It’s not about “arguing who’s more hardcore” or cracking the whip on each other, it’s about living up to your own goddamn ideals. Yes, we’re all going to fall short at times. Them’s the breaks. But when you fail, it’s not okay to excuse yourself out of it as if it didn’t matter. It does matter: that’s why it’s your goddamn ideal. The point is not to beat yourself–or anyone else–up about it, but to admit your mistake and apologize, without an ornate string of weaselly extenuating circumstances, or biting back at people who caught you with your hand in the patriarchy jar.
I am totally on Team Twisty, but that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have feet of clay. Just like me.
PhDork, I’m not sure about what Hill Rat said, but I take some exception to the idea that this is about living up to your ideals or not living up to your ideals. I am saying that hypervigilance has its downside.
Your piece, PS, wasn’t about living (or not) up to ideals. I’m simply stating where I’m coming at this from, and why I’m okay with anger.
Not all anger is the same, and to label it “hypervigilance” skirts a bit too close to the mountains-out-of-molehills anti-feminist critique.
There were some comments at Twisty’s that were harsher than others. Okay. Maybe that does have a downside, like, you know, everything else, but people respond differently. My response (I didn’t comment) was: “wtf. Why would you say that? You know better.” It was her shamey “chill the fuck out!” comments that made me angry.
PhDork says: “Hill Rat, I disagree. (You’re shocked, I know.) It’s not about “arguing who’s more hardcore” or cracking the whip on each other, it’s about living up to your own goddamn ideals. Yes, we’re all going to fall short at times. Them’s the breaks. But when you fail, it’s not okay to excuse yourself out of it as if it didn’t matter. It does matter: that’s why it’s your goddamn ideal. The point is not to beat yourself–or anyone else–up about it, but to admit your mistake and apologize, without an ornate string of weaselly extenuating circumstances, or biting back at people who caught you with your hand in the patriarchy jar.”
And what hapens if she doesn’t apologize? She said she wasn’t going to because she wasn’t sorry she used the word.
She said it. She stands by it. She didn’t try to explain it away, either.
So is she now anathema? Not a feminist? Not allowed to judge anyone anywhere for anything because she refuses to accept your judgment of her actions?
She honestly does not believe she needs to apologize. Should she do so anyway, to appease you?
Is she different in some measurable way from the Twisty/Jill of before, aside from that word and your disappointment in how she responded to criticism of it?
This would be a small world for me indeed if doing the wrong thing by my lights banished someone from it.
Good gawd, oldfeminist, you act like what I said was All About Twisty. It wasn’t. And even if it were, I stand by my statement, and you’re reading all kinds of drama into it that simply isn’t there. (Also, way to omit my last sentence and make it look like I’ve put out a fatwa on her.) My point: what one says matters, and if one says something sloppy or mean that contradicts one’s own values, one should cop to it. End of fucking story. Twisty doesn’t owe me anything. I was/am not personally offended and don’t need to be “appeased.” Please review my response to the intial shit-stirring post: wtf. why would you say that? you know better. I don’t think that is a disproportionate reaction. I think she’s smart and funny and human and on this occasion wrote something stupid, and for her, wildly sub-par. Jeezus fucking Kee-ryst. Banished? Am I Goddess of Feminism now, and get to pluck offenders off Planet Woman? Does your comment qualify under your idea of “generosity,” BTW? If so, it’s further proof that it isn’t a value of mine.