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I almost choked on my Cheerios this morning as I watched Matt Lauer’s interview with Sarah Palin on the Today Show. Because I found myself agreeing with her for once, and wanted to high-five her through the screen. I will not be addressing her motive(s) for speaking out about this or her politics because neither is relevant to this particular issue. I’m sorry I don’t have a full transcript, but I transcribed the important parts myself.
I don’t know if David Letterman’s joke was about fourteen year old Willow Palin or eighteen year old Bristol Palin (as he claims), but it doesn’t really matter. Palin is operating under the assumption that it was about Willow, and her comments to Lauer reflected that.
Palin told Lauer it’s a sad commentary on society that people would chuckle and laugh at jokes about statutory rape, adding, “It was a degrading comment about a young woman and I would hope that people really start — really rising up and deciding it’s not acceptable. No wonder young girls, especially, have such low self-esteem in America, when we think that it’s funny for a so-called comedian to get away with being able to make such a remark.”
Whoa. This is not something I expected to hear acknowledged, by Sarah Palin of all people, on national television. Sexual objectification hurts girls. Treating sexual abuse as a joke, or just a girl’s lot in life, hurts them.
Lauer then read from a statement Palin made prior to the interview, in which she said that jokes like Letterman’s “contribute to the atrociously high rate of sexual exploitation of minors by older men who use and abuse others…” (!!!!!)
Lauer admitted the joke was “in bad taste” but asked, “can you really connect the dots to criminal activity the way you did in that statement?”
Oh, I’ve heard that before! Laughing at sexual violence has nothing to do with sexual violence. So-called “little things” like rape jokes, and “big things” like rape, exist on the same continuum. It’s called rape culture, and I thought Sarah Palin came pretty close to describing it without actually using the term.
Palin told Lauer she could, in fact, “connect the dots to a degrading statement made about young women, and that does contribute to some acceptance of abuse of young women.”
Right on!
Damn you, David Letterman, for forcing me to make common cause with Sarah Palin! Because she’s right on. And even if Letterman had made that remark about Bristol, it would have been completely unfunny and inappropriate. Slut-shaming a girl for getting pregnant at 17 is nearly as bad as joking about statutory rape. So good for Sarah Palin for handing Dave his ass AND for refusing to let go of the issue the way the media so clearly wants her to.
And now that we’re sisters in the struggle, Governor Palin…let’s talk about those rape kits…
You should see the thread on Jezebel about this. All sorts of, she’s making a big deal out of nothing, this whole thing is her fault for making her kids political issues etc… comments.
bluebears, I spent ten minutes typing a long response to that thread and then I just felt so damn weary that I didn’t post it. It drives me insane that people are prepared to excuse this and i do think she’s right, people would be up in arms if it were a republican comedian mocking a democrat daughter (as indeed they rightly were over the appalling remarks made about Chelsea Clinton). I think Letterman is an unfunny arsehole and I think Palin is right to call him on it. I don’t like her politics but that doesn’t mean she’s not allowed to be right on this matter.
@bluebears: I stayed out of there because a) there is some stupid-ass, ignorant shit being said and b) all Gawker sites keep crashing my web browser (coincidence? you decide…)
@bluebears: I’m on a Jeze-break for a few days, and that thread makes me thankful I am abstaining. It’s basically moral relativism: I don’t like/I actively abhor a woman so it’s totally okay to make a joke about her children in a sexual context. No, it’s not. It wouldn’t be okay to make a joke about her in a sexual context. And if you play that “it’s okay because Palin trotted her kids out for magazines” argument out, it would give every rightwing asshole free leave to start joking about Malia Obama because she’s also in the spotlight due to her parent’s political career.
@all: I know it was irritating. and the mental gymnastics people were going through to excuse the behavior were ridiculous. I made a couple of comments and then gave up. Why does it matter that the kids are in the spotlight because of her, or that Bristol is 18 so technically “ok” to debase? Misogyny is still misogyny.
Wowwwww. I haven’t been on Jez much because having a job sort of cuts into my internet free time, but each time I go back, I’m sort of glad I had to leave (for the summer, at least). We talk all the time about how hard it is for men/white people/straight people/etc. to recognize and then disavow their privileges because having privileges has a lot of perks by definition. Well, Sarah Palin has been given a ton of what probably feel like privileges to her, by the right-wing of the patriarchy. They praise her for being pretty, they praise her for being a mother, and they praise her for agreeing with them. When she’s willing to risk some of that privilege to speak out about an actual issue in rape culture, shouldn’t we as feminists be backing her up? Shouldn’t we have her back? Even though her political positions are still pretty loathsome?
Let’s not make this about Jezebel. But the argument that she sucks so misogyny directed at her and/or her loved ones need not be challenged is a bad one. It’s not about defending Sarah Palin as a person or a politician. It’s about standing up to sexism, period. Even sexism directed at a woman who IS HERSELF A SEXIST is sexism that needs to be called out.
I always say, Sarah Palin and I have nothing in common but our names, unless Moose Munch ice cream contains actual moose.
I’m glad she said what she did, although I do wish she were a more effective speaker generally, since for once, her argument is sound. I’m a little concerned that the liberaldoodmedia is going to chew up her legitimate complaint and spit it out because it came from her mouth. We need to hear more women, right, left and center, saying this same thing, even more clearly and explicitly in the MSM. Maybe Rachel Maddow can cover this in a thoughtful way?
Frankly I wish more women would stand up and make an issue out of casual thoughtless sexism like this. However you know if they did they’d be dismissed out of hand for being “whiny” or “humorless.”
I’ll be the voice of dissent. Yes, Sarah Palin is right and David Letterman is wrong. But I don’t believe for a second that Sarah Palin cares about rape culture. She cares that a) someone insulted her kid and b) the media is paying attention to her. She loves fighting in the spotlight. And if Letterman had made the joke about Bristol, which it seems he intended to do, it wouldn’t have been over the line. Bristol has chosen her choice to tour the country as an abstinence advocate. She’s a public figure.
@bluebears: Like how it’s “flattering” when you’re eye-fucked on the street by random men instead of it being objectifying? I’m counting down the seconds until someone says that Bristol/Willow Palin should be pleased to be thought of as pretty enough to earn a mention in a sexually charged “joke”.
But Spark, like I said in the post, her motivation for saying what she said is not the point. I don’t think she’d open her mouth to defend any one of us against sexism. I am still amazed that a veiled reference to rape culture was made on the Today Show.
@Spark: but just because she’s a public figure doesn’t make it “ok” to make jokes about her sexuality. I mean of course its somewhat commonplace, but I for one wish it wasn’t, and thats why I applaud SP for speaking up. Yes her motives are probably suspect, but her message is good.
Fair enough, Sarah. It just sounds so insincere to me.
I also don’t believe that Sarah Palin really gives a shit about rape culture — but regardless of her motivation for doing so, at least she’s talking about it in the public sphere. And maybe the fact that SHE is the one saying it will cause some Conservative Dudes to listen. So yeah, right on, Governor Palin.
@bluebears: It’s paternalistic to say that Bristol Palin can go on the Today Show to talk about her sexuality, but it’s off-limits for the rest of us.
I was watching MSNBC this morning and the female anchors were fighting with some male commentators over this. It was interesting to watch. I know liberal dudes are in a tailspin, and I understand how much we do not like these conservative assholes, but I still don’t understand why it’s so hard for anyone to just say this kind of thing isn’t particularly funny. Because what’s getting me about the conversation is that people are like, “This is comedy.” That is the argument blowing my obstreperal lobe.
@PSoul: I was waiting for “but it was satire!”
I think, Spark, that there’s a difference between saying “Bristol Palin is a hypocrite for promoting abstinence-only education,” and making jokes that she got “knocked up” by A-Rod during the seventh-inning stretch. The first is based on fact, the second on the implication that she’s trampy.
Spark – it’s not that her sexuality is off limits, its that jokes about her sexuality are irrelevant and not that funny. I would have no problem with someone who wished to raise a serious point about Bristol Palin’s campaigning and/or sexuality but Letterman didn’t do that, he made a cheap shot. A cheap shot that was absolutely no different from the cheap shots that the likes of McCain took at Chelsea Clinton and one that added nothing to the debate whatsoever but rather gave Palin the chance to seize the moral high ground.
I too think Sarah Palin is very insincere but I also find the idea that its ok for a 60something man to joke about a teenage girl’s sexuality uncomfortable, regardless of whether that girl has chosen to front an abstinence campaign or not. I think it’s a shit joke, it would be a shit joke if Lindsay Lohan were the punchline, or Hayden Pantierre or any other young starlet. It smacked of men down the club and ‘yeah she’d fuck anything’ crap in my opinion.
Then again I will hold my hand up here and admit that there isn’t a single late night US comedian i find funny. I can not understand the appeal of these shows, they always seem to be filled with smug overly scripted frat boy humour of the worst kind.
Thank you for writing this. I thought I was taking crazy pills while I read the Jezebel thread on this. The joke was not intended just for A-Rod; it was a joke on both of them. Gross.
@Spark: No one was having a discussion of sexuality in relation to abstinence or her campaign for abstinence etc… a crude and offensive joke was made about her having A-Rods baby. Because, so far as I can tell, she’s a young girl who had an out of wedlock baby. Sorry, I don’t see how the two relate.
@Spark: There’s a difference between Bristol Palin talking about abstinence and jokes being made about raping her, though.
Thanks for this. I agree the thread(s) about the Letterman-Palin feud are infuriating. When I said that Letterman’s “slutty” comment was inappropriate, some commenters replied with, “but he is a comedian! It was a Top Ten list! He makes fun of Blagovich’s hair, too!” Unless Letterman said Blagovich looks slutty, there is no comparison.
Sputnik_Sweetheart – Right, but it’s not just that he’s a comedian. Liberals apparently think of him as *our* comedian. But that doesn’t make it okay. If Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert said it, it still wouldn’t be okay. If Bill O’Reilly said something like this about a Democrat, we’d be really upset, and rightly so.
Reading some other lefty blogs’ comments has left me feeling ill. Even those who think Letterman “crossed a line” are excusing it because they (Republicans) do it to “our women.”
The conservatives AND the liberals just use women as a means to get at each other. The Dems get mad at the Repubs when they talk shit on their women, and vise versa. It’s like we’re just the property of the men in our parties.
From Margaret Carlson:
“And by the way, isn’t making a federal case out of a tasteless joke exactly what the right-wing loves to ridicule feminists for doing?”
Head meet Roof.
@bluebears: Oh Margaret Carlson, REALLY? No, the right-wing (and not exclusively the right-wing, BTW) loves to ridicule feminists for reasons that have nothing to do with “tasteless jokes”.
I’m with all of you who are a bit mystified by the Jezebel reaction. To be fair, there are a number of people commenting over there who’ve said they’re totally with Sarah on this, but feel that the way she’s been talking about it smack of political opportunism.
But the number of people trying to argue their way into claiming the jokes were somehow OK is just ridiculous. Misogyny isn’t ok, rape jokes aren’t ok, no matter who they’re aimed toward. End of story.
“Even sexism directed at a woman who IS HERSELF A SEXIST is sexism that needs to be called out.”
Yes, this. I still don’t LIKE Sarah Palin’s politics or personality, but she shouldn’t be subject to mysogyny any more than you or I should. End of story, as far as I’m concerned.
The whole “she’s being hypocritical, using her children for political gain, etc.” argument is an interesting and valid one, but it doesn’t justify the joke that provoked this whole thing, and doesn’t absolve us from the responsibility to call Dave out on them – it just justifies me not liking her.
There’s not much I’ve seen to like about her beliefs but I do like how she speaks confidently and makes sure what she wants to say is heard even when the reporter is trying to interrupt.
@Liz: Yikes, I wasn’t defending a rape joke. I thought it became a rape joke because the target was Willow, who’s 14. If he was talking about Bristol, it’s not rape. Unless I’m remembering the wording incorrectly. I concede that my Palin-Rage may be affecting my judgment, but Bristol is making her sexuality a public topic of conversation, so it’s tough to defend her.
Could I please remind people that it wasn’t just the A-Rod joke? Have you already forgotten the Elliot Spitzer line? Basically Letterman was implying (and let’s just for the moment give him a courtesy he doesn’t deserve by assuming he really was referring to Bristol) that because a girl had premarital sex a man can assume she’s a prostitute. Would anyone like to suggest any context in which we should accept that?
Here’s my issue…Palin spent hours of useful TV appearance time demonizing Letterman and basically calling him a pedophile who supports statutory rape. Anyone with common sense understands that the joke was crude, but a reflection on the sexualities of Bristol and A-Rod, not the 14 year old girl.
I dont agree and Im glad he apologized, but I would prefer that while Palin was hogging all that media attention, yelling about liberals, misogyny and the like, that she had taken an opportunity to further anything for women as a whole, as opposed to herself. She continuously positions herself as a victim of the media, when she is enjoying any time she gets in the spotlight.
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