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	<title>Comments on: Who&#8217;s the Best Feminist Wife of All?</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Alyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-11094</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-11094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@baraqiel: Yeah I see your point. I think the biggest reason I would still consider that hypothetical woman a feminist is because I&#039;m looking more at actions that philosophy. (I tend to think a person&#039;s philosophy is moot if their actions aren&#039;t consistent with said philosophy, which happens a lot). I also believe that if someone agrees with 90% of the platform, then it&#039;s enough for them to own the label. But looking at feminism as a philosophy rather than a political platform does change that a bit, so like I said I definitely see your point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@baraqiel: Yeah I see your point. I think the biggest reason I would still consider that hypothetical woman a feminist is because I&#8217;m looking more at actions that philosophy. (I tend to think a person&#8217;s philosophy is moot if their actions aren&#8217;t consistent with said philosophy, which happens a lot). I also believe that if someone agrees with 90% of the platform, then it&#8217;s enough for them to own the label. But looking at feminism as a philosophy rather than a political platform does change that a bit, so like I said I definitely see your point.</p>
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		<title>By: baraqiel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10977</link>
		<dc:creator>baraqiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Alyssa - I think you&#039;re still conflating a philosophy with positions associated with that philosophy.  There is no real reason that gun rights are a &quot;conservative&quot; issue, unless you want to make an argument about strict interpretation of the Constitution being a conservative value.  Even then, that demands a certain understanding of &quot;strict interpretation&quot;, and it&#039;s also a matter of political, rather than social, conservatism.  I&#039;m not saying that it&#039;s impossible to *identify* both as a social conservative and a feminist, but it&#039;s impossible to hold both stances in a way that is logically consistent.  Of course people often hold stances that are logically inconsistent, but in my experience, that means they haven&#039;t really thought things through.

Your second paragraph raises an interesting question about the differences between actions and philosophies.  Feminism, in my understanding, is a philosophy, and actions proceed from that philosophy.  Being anti-choice is in direct contradiction with that philosophy.  It is possible to act in a way that appears to proceed from a certain philosophy without actually holding that philosophy (or, indeed, understanding it).  Were I to meet a woman such as you posit, I would say that either she does not understand what&#039;s at play in issues of reproductive choice, or she does not understand feminism.  Ultimately, in my understanding, feminism is not about improving the lives of individual women, which is what that woman is engaged with doing.  That is certainly an admirable and important thing to do!  As well, those are activities engaged in by many feminists!  However, in my opinion, feminism is concerned with changing the way that gender operates in our society much more so than it is concerned with making individual women happier, or safer, or healthier, because those things are all in some sense a stop-gap on the larger problem that is causing them sadness/danger in the first place.  The question of choice is integral to that change because it deals intimately with whether or not we as a society deem women&#039;s bodies and reproductive capabilities to be a public matter.  If a woman is anti-choice, she is tacitly saying that women&#039;s bodies should be publicly controlled, which is anti-feminist, full stop.  This is why I think that no matter how many women are helped by a person who is anti-choice, that person cannot be rightly called a feminist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alyssa &#8211; I think you&#8217;re still conflating a philosophy with positions associated with that philosophy.  There is no real reason that gun rights are a &#8220;conservative&#8221; issue, unless you want to make an argument about strict interpretation of the Constitution being a conservative value.  Even then, that demands a certain understanding of &#8220;strict interpretation&#8221;, and it&#8217;s also a matter of political, rather than social, conservatism.  I&#8217;m not saying that it&#8217;s impossible to *identify* both as a social conservative and a feminist, but it&#8217;s impossible to hold both stances in a way that is logically consistent.  Of course people often hold stances that are logically inconsistent, but in my experience, that means they haven&#8217;t really thought things through.</p>
<p>Your second paragraph raises an interesting question about the differences between actions and philosophies.  Feminism, in my understanding, is a philosophy, and actions proceed from that philosophy.  Being anti-choice is in direct contradiction with that philosophy.  It is possible to act in a way that appears to proceed from a certain philosophy without actually holding that philosophy (or, indeed, understanding it).  Were I to meet a woman such as you posit, I would say that either she does not understand what&#8217;s at play in issues of reproductive choice, or she does not understand feminism.  Ultimately, in my understanding, feminism is not about improving the lives of individual women, which is what that woman is engaged with doing.  That is certainly an admirable and important thing to do!  As well, those are activities engaged in by many feminists!  However, in my opinion, feminism is concerned with changing the way that gender operates in our society much more so than it is concerned with making individual women happier, or safer, or healthier, because those things are all in some sense a stop-gap on the larger problem that is causing them sadness/danger in the first place.  The question of choice is integral to that change because it deals intimately with whether or not we as a society deem women&#8217;s bodies and reproductive capabilities to be a public matter.  If a woman is anti-choice, she is tacitly saying that women&#8217;s bodies should be publicly controlled, which is anti-feminist, full stop.  This is why I think that no matter how many women are helped by a person who is anti-choice, that person cannot be rightly called a feminist.</p>
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		<title>By: Alyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10972</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@baraqiel: I agree that the only comparison between conservitives and feminists is when we are talking about social conservatives. I even agree that the tenets of social conserivitism and feminism are in direct opposition of each other.  However some people (and in my experience most people) do not agree 100% with the social platform they identify with. In other words, it is completely conceivable that there are people who identify as a social conservative because they agree with issues like gun rights, but when it comes to women&#039;s issues  they agree with feminists, and thus also identify as a feminist. 
@all: This is the same reason I don&#039;t think it&#039;s appropriate to use one issue (even abortion) as a litmus test for feminism. If a woman dedicates her life to help women who are victims of and prevent rape and domestic violence, who advocates for all mothers and pregnant women to receive financial and emotional support in raising their children, who promotes equal pay, but votes pro-life, I&#039;d be hard pressed to say she can&#039;t identify as a feminist. 
And isn&#039;t that what this whole post is about? Isn&#039;t this post (and the previous one about cooking) about we can&#039;t judge someone as a good/bad/not at all feminist by one  or two things? I&#039;m pushing this idea a little further by applying it to the larger issue of abortion. If you don&#039;t agree with me, I totally understand and respect your opinion. I&#039;m just trying to shed light on how some people can ascribe to two contradictory social platforms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@baraqiel: I agree that the only comparison between conservitives and feminists is when we are talking about social conservatives. I even agree that the tenets of social conserivitism and feminism are in direct opposition of each other.  However some people (and in my experience most people) do not agree 100% with the social platform they identify with. In other words, it is completely conceivable that there are people who identify as a social conservative because they agree with issues like gun rights, but when it comes to women&#8217;s issues  they agree with feminists, and thus also identify as a feminist.<br />
@all: This is the same reason I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s appropriate to use one issue (even abortion) as a litmus test for feminism. If a woman dedicates her life to help women who are victims of and prevent rape and domestic violence, who advocates for all mothers and pregnant women to receive financial and emotional support in raising their children, who promotes equal pay, but votes pro-life, I&#8217;d be hard pressed to say she can&#8217;t identify as a feminist.<br />
And isn&#8217;t that what this whole post is about? Isn&#8217;t this post (and the previous one about cooking) about we can&#8217;t judge someone as a good/bad/not at all feminist by one  or two things? I&#8217;m pushing this idea a little further by applying it to the larger issue of abortion. If you don&#8217;t agree with me, I totally understand and respect your opinion. I&#8217;m just trying to shed light on how some people can ascribe to two contradictory social platforms.</p>
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		<title>By: thebewilderness</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10970</link>
		<dc:creator>thebewilderness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it is the well known journamalistic doormat phenomenon.

&quot;I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.&quot;
Rebecca West]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is the well known journamalistic doormat phenomenon.</p>
<p>&#8220;I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.&#8221;<br />
Rebecca West</p>
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		<title>By: baraqiel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10964</link>
		<dc:creator>baraqiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Spark - yes, exactly.

@Alyssa - I think this conversation (not just here, but in general) runs into confusion due to how we use the word &quot;conservative&quot;, i.e. as both a label for certain kinds of fiscal/social/political philosophies and as a label for a group of positions that are often but not always associated with those philosophies.  Only one of those things -- a social conservative philosophy -- is essentially incompatible with feminism.  Fiscal conservatism, political conservatism, and certain positions that don&#039;t necessarily follow from conservative thought but are often found in its company, are not by their natures incompatible with feminism.

@s.o.a.l.g. - Yes, I agree with you there.  I also think it&#039;s worth noting that he&#039;s making the easy argument (&quot;Jenny Sanford won&#039;t be welcomed as a feminist hero because she&#039;s a Republican&quot;) over the more valid and challenging one (&quot;Jenny Sanford won&#039;t be welcomed as a feminist hero because it takes more to be a feminist hero than making one ambiguous choice about your personal life&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Spark &#8211; yes, exactly.</p>
<p>@Alyssa &#8211; I think this conversation (not just here, but in general) runs into confusion due to how we use the word &#8220;conservative&#8221;, i.e. as both a label for certain kinds of fiscal/social/political philosophies and as a label for a group of positions that are often but not always associated with those philosophies.  Only one of those things &#8212; a social conservative philosophy &#8212; is essentially incompatible with feminism.  Fiscal conservatism, political conservatism, and certain positions that don&#8217;t necessarily follow from conservative thought but are often found in its company, are not by their natures incompatible with feminism.</p>
<p>@s.o.a.l.g. &#8211; Yes, I agree with you there.  I also think it&#8217;s worth noting that he&#8217;s making the easy argument (&#8220;Jenny Sanford won&#8217;t be welcomed as a feminist hero because she&#8217;s a Republican&#8221;) over the more valid and challenging one (&#8220;Jenny Sanford won&#8217;t be welcomed as a feminist hero because it takes more to be a feminist hero than making one ambiguous choice about your personal life&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: sarah.of.a.lesser.god</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10961</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah.of.a.lesser.god</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@spark @baraqiel: I guess my point is more about Jenny Sanford than the overall &quot;feminism/anti-feminism&quot; merits of the entire GOP.  I agree that social conservatism stands in conflict with feminism, and anyone anti-choice will never be seen as a feminist by me.  I was more referring to the fact that Davis seems to be convinced that nobody would see Sanford as a feminist hero because she happens to be married to a governor who&#039;s a Republican, and because she&#039;s a Republican.  Which is why I called it out for being a straw man argument: it completely sets up this argument that the criterion for being revered as a feminist icon is solely along party lines and that&#039;s the only reason Hillary is seen as such and Jenny Sanford will not be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@spark @baraqiel: I guess my point is more about Jenny Sanford than the overall &#8220;feminism/anti-feminism&#8221; merits of the entire GOP.  I agree that social conservatism stands in conflict with feminism, and anyone anti-choice will never be seen as a feminist by me.  I was more referring to the fact that Davis seems to be convinced that nobody would see Sanford as a feminist hero because she happens to be married to a governor who&#8217;s a Republican, and because she&#8217;s a Republican.  Which is why I called it out for being a straw man argument: it completely sets up this argument that the criterion for being revered as a feminist icon is solely along party lines and that&#8217;s the only reason Hillary is seen as such and Jenny Sanford will not be.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10960</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brava, Spark.  That&#039;s exactly it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brava, Spark.  That&#8217;s exactly it.</p>
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		<title>By: Spark</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10958</link>
		<dc:creator>Spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can be a registered Republican or self-identify as conservative and still call yourself a feminist. But feminism is about dismantling/changing an oppressive system, and social conservatism is about maintaining the traditional (oppressive) system. It&#039;s a contradiction in terms to be a socially conservative feminist. In those cases where people claim to be, they&#039;re just social conservatives taking advantage of feminist gains to make their own lives more comfortable. Not to mention, no you can&#039;t be a feminist and believe that women should have less legal control over their bodies than men have over theirs. Anti-choice people should be challenged when they call themselves feminists because, well, they&#039;re not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can be a registered Republican or self-identify as conservative and still call yourself a feminist. But feminism is about dismantling/changing an oppressive system, and social conservatism is about maintaining the traditional (oppressive) system. It&#8217;s a contradiction in terms to be a socially conservative feminist. In those cases where people claim to be, they&#8217;re just social conservatives taking advantage of feminist gains to make their own lives more comfortable. Not to mention, no you can&#8217;t be a feminist and believe that women should have less legal control over their bodies than men have over theirs. Anti-choice people should be challenged when they call themselves feminists because, well, they&#8217;re not.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat K.</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10957</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elsenet, I&#039;ve read that Jenny and Mark Sanford had actually *talked* about his other relationship, and that he had her explicit approval to pursue it.

And you know, if that&#039;s the case, more power to them. Actually communicating about changing relationships - possibly to the point of opening them up, if all parties are amenable - may not be a specifically feminist virtue, but it beats the heck out of the usual Cheater-Betrayed Spouse-Other Woman model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elsenet, I&#8217;ve read that Jenny and Mark Sanford had actually *talked* about his other relationship, and that he had her explicit approval to pursue it.</p>
<p>And you know, if that&#8217;s the case, more power to them. Actually communicating about changing relationships &#8211; possibly to the point of opening them up, if all parties are amenable &#8211; may not be a specifically feminist virtue, but it beats the heck out of the usual Cheater-Betrayed Spouse-Other Woman model.</p>
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		<title>By: bellacoker</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/02/whos-the-best-feminist-wife-of-all/comment-page-1/#comment-10956</link>
		<dc:creator>bellacoker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=8246#comment-10956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Firstly, Imaginary Caaaatttt Fiiiiiiighttttt!!!!!

Secondly, Ms. Sanford might have made a different decision if she wanted to run for President.  Ms. Clinton might have made a different decision if she knew she wasn&#039;t going to win, and she might change her mind in the future. *shrug*

This seems like a variation of the Feminists hate Stay at Home Moms meme, which is to say, more or less made up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, Imaginary Caaaatttt Fiiiiiiighttttt!!!!!</p>
<p>Secondly, Ms. Sanford might have made a different decision if she wanted to run for President.  Ms. Clinton might have made a different decision if she knew she wasn&#8217;t going to win, and she might change her mind in the future. *shrug*</p>
<p>This seems like a variation of the Feminists hate Stay at Home Moms meme, which is to say, more or less made up.</p>
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