<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Warning: Not Having A C-Section Is Child Abuse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 21:22:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12692</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Azumanga: Doctors don&#039;t have the legal right to force treatment on anyone. To say that &quot;she had no medical training&quot;--do you really want to go down that slippery slope? The next time your doctor says you need a procedure, should he/she be able to force you by saying &quot;you have no medical training, so you&#039;ll have to do as I say.&quot;?

And despite her lack of medical training, she was right and the doctor was wrong. She clearly knew her own body better than he did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Azumanga: Doctors don&#8217;t have the legal right to force treatment on anyone. To say that &#8220;she had no medical training&#8221;&#8211;do you really want to go down that slippery slope? The next time your doctor says you need a procedure, should he/she be able to force you by saying &#8220;you have no medical training, so you&#8217;ll have to do as I say.&#8221;?</p>
<p>And despite her lack of medical training, she was right and the doctor was wrong. She clearly knew her own body better than he did.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Azumanga</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12689</link>
		<dc:creator>Azumanga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What if the doctors had been right (they tend to err on the side of caution) and not having the C-section had killed the baby?

She had no medical training, she decided her want for a natural birth over-ruled the doctor&#039;s professional opinion, and put her baby at risk as a consequence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the doctors had been right (they tend to err on the side of caution) and not having the C-section had killed the baby?</p>
<p>She had no medical training, she decided her want for a natural birth over-ruled the doctor&#8217;s professional opinion, and put her baby at risk as a consequence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TVille</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12476</link>
		<dc:creator>TVille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, so first I&#039;m going to wear my medical apologist hat. OB/GYN is an unforgiving specialty. Tons of them are dropping their OB practice because of the difficulties they face practicing. (Disclaimer - I have family members who are doctors, I handle insurance billing for several different specialties in Virginia, I&#039;ve taken a dozen classes in bio-medical ethics, specifically informed consent and access, and I&#039;m obsessed with the current state of health care delivery in the US.) OBs are under pressure from the hospitals they work at, as well as their malpractice carriers (who, as with health insurance payers, have an inordinate amount of influence over the way medicine is practiced), to &quot;facilitate&quot; healthy babies, and alive mommies. When something goes &quot;wrong&quot; (i.e., no perfectly healthy baby, and mommy) in a pregnancy, or a delivery the doc gets sued. Babies are incredibly emotionally charged. So, docs aren&#039;t perfect, but they&#039;re also not all assholes. Most of them, that I&#039;ve encountered, are reasonable people who are absolutely willing to listen to and work WITH their patients. 

I do think there is a systemic cultural consideration that women aren&#039;t encouraged to assert themselves, which plays into the dynamic of women being pushed around. I don&#039;t know how to say, &quot;Stand up for yourself&quot; without sounding like I&#039;m blaming the victim. As soon as I figure that out, I&#039;ll be back. 

I will add that I think the steamroller phenomenon exists everywhere in health care - my dad has a cascade of medical problems that require an enormous amount of interaction with providers, and he often has a hard time being heard, and having processes, and options thoroughly explained to him. He&#039;s felt railroaded on a number of occasions, and bounced from doc to doc as a result, also earning him the label of &#039;difficult.&#039;

Ugh, I haven&#039;t even touched on the case - but I did read the court docs and while the c-section refusal was discussed, the courts seemed pretty clear that that wasn&#039;t the reason they terminated custody. Patient and her husband don&#039;t sound as though they&#039;ve been at all cooperative in attempting to get their baby back - they failed to appear for their first court date. Also, the medical system didn&#039;t take the baby away, DCFS did. The hospital might have gotten the ball rolling, but ultimately, DCFS did the removing.

And finally, taking the medical apologist hat off - I&#039;m having a home birth. When I found out I was pregnant I had no desire to fight with anyone to have the birth I want (minimal / no intervention, no pressure to produce a baby in someone else&#039;s timeframe, leave me the hell alone, I&#039;m having a baby).

I should get my own blog, so I can stop hijacking other people&#039;s blogs...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, so first I&#8217;m going to wear my medical apologist hat. OB/GYN is an unforgiving specialty. Tons of them are dropping their OB practice because of the difficulties they face practicing. (Disclaimer &#8211; I have family members who are doctors, I handle insurance billing for several different specialties in Virginia, I&#8217;ve taken a dozen classes in bio-medical ethics, specifically informed consent and access, and I&#8217;m obsessed with the current state of health care delivery in the US.) OBs are under pressure from the hospitals they work at, as well as their malpractice carriers (who, as with health insurance payers, have an inordinate amount of influence over the way medicine is practiced), to &#8220;facilitate&#8221; healthy babies, and alive mommies. When something goes &#8220;wrong&#8221; (i.e., no perfectly healthy baby, and mommy) in a pregnancy, or a delivery the doc gets sued. Babies are incredibly emotionally charged. So, docs aren&#8217;t perfect, but they&#8217;re also not all assholes. Most of them, that I&#8217;ve encountered, are reasonable people who are absolutely willing to listen to and work WITH their patients. </p>
<p>I do think there is a systemic cultural consideration that women aren&#8217;t encouraged to assert themselves, which plays into the dynamic of women being pushed around. I don&#8217;t know how to say, &#8220;Stand up for yourself&#8221; without sounding like I&#8217;m blaming the victim. As soon as I figure that out, I&#8217;ll be back. </p>
<p>I will add that I think the steamroller phenomenon exists everywhere in health care &#8211; my dad has a cascade of medical problems that require an enormous amount of interaction with providers, and he often has a hard time being heard, and having processes, and options thoroughly explained to him. He&#8217;s felt railroaded on a number of occasions, and bounced from doc to doc as a result, also earning him the label of &#8216;difficult.&#8217;</p>
<p>Ugh, I haven&#8217;t even touched on the case &#8211; but I did read the court docs and while the c-section refusal was discussed, the courts seemed pretty clear that that wasn&#8217;t the reason they terminated custody. Patient and her husband don&#8217;t sound as though they&#8217;ve been at all cooperative in attempting to get their baby back &#8211; they failed to appear for their first court date. Also, the medical system didn&#8217;t take the baby away, DCFS did. The hospital might have gotten the ball rolling, but ultimately, DCFS did the removing.</p>
<p>And finally, taking the medical apologist hat off &#8211; I&#8217;m having a home birth. When I found out I was pregnant I had no desire to fight with anyone to have the birth I want (minimal / no intervention, no pressure to produce a baby in someone else&#8217;s timeframe, leave me the hell alone, I&#8217;m having a baby).</p>
<p>I should get my own blog, so I can stop hijacking other people&#8217;s blogs&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Spark</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12467</link>
		<dc:creator>Spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, emilyanne. I&#039;m passively doctor-shopping. Oh for the days when we all lived in one place our whole lives and didn&#039;t have to play insurance roulette.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, emilyanne. I&#8217;m passively doctor-shopping. Oh for the days when we all lived in one place our whole lives and didn&#8217;t have to play insurance roulette.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: emilyanne</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12441</link>
		<dc:creator>emilyanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spark - St Vincent&#039;s in Manhattan - oddly when I tell people they often turn their noses up at it (I have yet to forgive Tim Robbins for saying that he would never allow a child of his to be treated there when he and Susan Sarandon were lobbying for the hospital to be moved), possibly because it also has a large medicare clientele and a big A&amp;E department. I have nothing but praise for all the staff there they were fantastic and nearly two years down the line the nurses still remember my daughter and say hi.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spark &#8211; St Vincent&#8217;s in Manhattan &#8211; oddly when I tell people they often turn their noses up at it (I have yet to forgive Tim Robbins for saying that he would never allow a child of his to be treated there when he and Susan Sarandon were lobbying for the hospital to be moved), possibly because it also has a large medicare clientele and a big A&amp;E department. I have nothing but praise for all the staff there they were fantastic and nearly two years down the line the nurses still remember my daughter and say hi.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Miss Pinot</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12440</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Pinot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amendment on the page numbers: if yu go by the page numbers at the abode scroll bar at the top, it&#039;s page 15 onward. If you go by the numbers at the bottom of the page, it&#039;s the ones I mentioned above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amendment on the page numbers: if yu go by the page numbers at the abode scroll bar at the top, it&#8217;s page 15 onward. If you go by the numbers at the bottom of the page, it&#8217;s the ones I mentioned above.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Miss Pinot</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12438</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Pinot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pages 5, 6, and 7 seem to be the pertinent ones on the mother&#039;s mental state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pages 5, 6, and 7 seem to be the pertinent ones on the mother&#8217;s mental state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Miss Pinot</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12437</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Pinot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again, thank you, home state for getting in the news for bad things.

This whole situation shocks and angers me in ways that I can&#039;t fully vocalize, since I&#039;m pretty freaked out by the thought of pregnancy and birth to begin with. To have your body subject to another&#039;s will and an unnecessary surgery would terrify me, so I cannot imagine how frightened this woman had to be. The doctors were asses, but I&#039;ve read a few articles on this case, and the family has not been cooperating with DYFS to get their child returned to them. Should the baby have been taken away in the first place? No. But now that he/she has been, the family should have cooperated with the case worker, and basically bent over backwards to get their infant back. The husband related concerns to the second shrink regarding his wife&#039;s mental state, which I thought was interesting as it sheds light on this whole case. 

Court documents:
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a4627-06.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, thank you, home state for getting in the news for bad things.</p>
<p>This whole situation shocks and angers me in ways that I can&#8217;t fully vocalize, since I&#8217;m pretty freaked out by the thought of pregnancy and birth to begin with. To have your body subject to another&#8217;s will and an unnecessary surgery would terrify me, so I cannot imagine how frightened this woman had to be. The doctors were asses, but I&#8217;ve read a few articles on this case, and the family has not been cooperating with DYFS to get their child returned to them. Should the baby have been taken away in the first place? No. But now that he/she has been, the family should have cooperated with the case worker, and basically bent over backwards to get their infant back. The husband related concerns to the second shrink regarding his wife&#8217;s mental state, which I thought was interesting as it sheds light on this whole case. </p>
<p>Court documents:<br />
<a href="http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a4627-06.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a4627-06.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Spark</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12435</link>
		<dc:creator>Spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[emilyanne, it sounds like you had a great doctor. I&#039;m curious which hospital you used... I just learned that the hospital my doctor is affiliated with has a very high c-section rate, and it&#039;s a little alarming when I think about staying with her for future childbearing. As for the knee-jerk reaction (I&#039;ve seen it too), I think it&#039;s in response to how out of control some women feel/are. At some point you have to trust your doctor to make the right decision for you, and when you know that many doctors make the best decision for THEM, it&#039;s tough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>emilyanne, it sounds like you had a great doctor. I&#8217;m curious which hospital you used&#8230; I just learned that the hospital my doctor is affiliated with has a very high c-section rate, and it&#8217;s a little alarming when I think about staying with her for future childbearing. As for the knee-jerk reaction (I&#8217;ve seen it too), I think it&#8217;s in response to how out of control some women feel/are. At some point you have to trust your doctor to make the right decision for you, and when you know that many doctors make the best decision for THEM, it&#8217;s tough.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ista</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/07/29/warning-not-having-a-c-section-is-child-abuse/comment-page-1/#comment-12432</link>
		<dc:creator>Ista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=9023#comment-12432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, after reading this, I at least understand why it&#039;s meant to be funny that Susan wants an epidural.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, after reading this, I at least understand why it&#8217;s meant to be funny that Susan wants an epidural.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
