Comments on: What I Learned on My Summer Vacation

By: Feminism – Two Posts you should not miss. « Dead Wild Roses

Feminism – Two Posts you should not miss. « Dead Wild Roses — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:14:26 +0000

[...] pervade our society. The comment section is also quite informative for this article. Find it here. TAG CLOUD:What is growing at DWRCanada Education Feminism Gaming Gender Issues Housekeeping [...]

By: mischiefmanager

mischiefmanager — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:04:55 +0000

Thanks, Ph.Dork. I appreciate the support a lot. I’m going to end the public discussion here since this site isn’t here for me to discuss my personal family drama, but if anyone has ideas or thoughts, please feel free to email me directly.

By: PhDork

PhDork — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:59:56 +0000

That’s…troublesome, mischiefmanager. It sounds like he’s verging towards an attitude of Nice Guy (TM) entitlement to women’s attentions. I’m glad he has you for a mom, and that you’ve explained the very reasonable thinking that women who do the online dating go through. As to what else you can do? Maybe let him talk a little more and find out if this is just his way of dealing with rejection, or if there’s something more serious going on. You could note that some women might just be playing, but you might also suggest that/find out if there might be something he’s communicated that could be interpreted as coming on too strong or seeming otherwise “unsafe” (like not agreeing to phone calls). I don’t know that there’s a good answer, but you’re right in that he need to accept that women, being people with their own desires and concerns, won’t always behave the way he wants them to.

I don’t think you failed him by not holding his hand re: dating through his adolescence.

By: mischiefmanager

mischiefmanager — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:19:13 +0000

@SarahMC: He didn’t initially, but it was clear that he was upset about something, so we encouraged him to talk with us. He’s been very angry about what he sees as the refusal of the women on these sites to “be honest” with him. That is to say, if there’s a online discussion going on and the woman stops responding without an explanation, or stops responding after he suggests meeting, he feels that that’s dishonest because the whole point of the endeavor is to meet someone in person.

I’ve tried to explain that women are generally careful about meeting strangers in person, but instead of simply accepting that that’s the way it is, he tries to argue that a phone call isn’t really an effective screening device, and on and on.

@madaha: he’s not a phone person himself, so he doesn’t understand why women don’t want to proceed directly from online chats to meeting.

The thing is, whether or not he understands it, he needs to accept it, and that’s what he can’t seem to do. He’s a great guy otherwise (if I do say so myself), but this is a real problem.

By: orlando

orlando — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:08:42 +0000

If one group of people is sitting on the sofa after dinner while another group of people is cleaning, then the inference that the former group is not doing their share of the indispensible unpaid labour is not unexamined assumption, it is empirical fact.

By: baraqiel

baraqiel — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:49:31 +0000

(By the way, if that sounded condescending, I honestly didn’t mean it to. I think you just don’t know what type of discourse you’ve gotten yourself into here and it would behoove you to learn some of the basics before you continue.)

By: baraqiel

baraqiel — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:28:34 +0000

@Heath – I recommend that you do a little reading before you comment on a feminist blog again. For example:
“It was my presumption that feminists strive for equality between the sexes”
This is overly simplistic. Look up what a system of oppression is — we’re trying to dismantle that, rather than just equalize things within our current system (impossible).
“I inferred that in your post women do more work than men because you listed more tasks that women do than tasks that men do.”
Look up the “second shift”. Although I cannot say for certain about PhDork’s Dude’s family, it is often factually the case that women do more work than men. You can find indicators such as minutes of leisure time per day to prove this – a quick google found a study showing that American women spend 40 more minutes per day working than American men on average, for example.

Also you may want to look up the definition of humor; humor does not necessarily offend by its nature. You also totally failed to understand the point of the Shakesville post you quoted. For a lengthier discussion of rape jokes and why the vast majority are irresponsible, I recommend http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/a-woman-walks-into-a-rape-uh-bar/ and http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/two-more-things/

By: Marie

Marie — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:06:54 +0000

Thanks! I’ve actually been wondering lately if there are any guys out there at all who see women as people… good to know there are!

By: Heath

Heath — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:51:46 +0000

I apologize for appearing trollish. I can assure you that was not my intent. I found this post because a friend shared it on Google Reader. I didn’t just google ‘feminist blogs’ and post a vitriolic diatribe comment because I was bored at work.

I tried tempering my words with ‘perhaps’ to leave open the possibility that I was wrong about my assumptions. I don’t at all mean to presume that I know more about your family’s situation than you do. Clearly, that is absurd. I also realize that I’m nit-picking your post a little.

I didn’t mean to imply anything about you or women in general with the ‘equality with men’ comment. It was my presumption that feminists strive for equality between the sexes, so I was trying to reference a main goal of feminism indirectly.

I have a pet peave about the debasing of male culture on its face, and I was afraid you had done it on three fronts: work output, intelligence/learnedness and post-dinner pastime.

I inferred that in your post women do more work than men because you listed more tasks that women do than tasks that men do. Additionally, you mentioned that women do some ‘male’ tasks, but didn’t mention that men do some ‘female’ tasks.

I inferred that you considered the women more intelligent/learned because they were more verbal and not brash.

I inferred that you value the pastime of visiting in the kitchen more than watching the game based upon your tone and that you would value similar things as the Dude.

My inferences may have been (and based on your reply probably were) wrong, but I wouldn’t have known that without further information supplied in comments.

I actually agreed with the meat of this post. My own parents both consider themselves feminists, and I have great respect for my mother, who is one of the strongest people I know. I agree that the best way to teach your sons that women don’t exist to serve them is not to serve them when they can serve themselves. My wife and I plan to raise our son that way.

I hope you were using the my blog to identify me as a troll and not to discount my comments. I’d rather see my comments discounted with a reasoned argument rather than dismissed because I have a post on my blog you don’t agree with.

My original comment was calm and reasoned, if blunt. I apologize again for my bluntness, but if you truly thought I was trolling, you didn’t have to approve my comment, and this misunderstanding could have been sorted out through a simple email exchange.

By: madaha

madaha — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:06:10 +0000

what is dishonest about wanting to talk on the phone first? wha?