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	<title>Comments on: School Daze</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: --EG</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14901</link>
		<dc:creator>--EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[at my previous college (a small women&#039;s college) there were statistics chalked on the sidewalk for Rape Awareness week, copies of The Rapist Checklist posted around campus, and we got the whole &quot;don&#039;t leave your drink unattended&quot; speil. 

One irritating thing was the college&#039;s belief that we should fear and avoid all men traveling through campus--which was a little hairy because there was a small number of men that attended the school.

I just transferred to the Savannah College of art and Design, and at my orientation the SCAD security people talked about the self-defencse classes offered. Here&#039;s the kicker: these self-defense classes are women-only. The scad security people are going to get that link that y&#039;all posted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>at my previous college (a small women&#8217;s college) there were statistics chalked on the sidewalk for Rape Awareness week, copies of The Rapist Checklist posted around campus, and we got the whole &#8220;don&#8217;t leave your drink unattended&#8221; speil. </p>
<p>One irritating thing was the college&#8217;s belief that we should fear and avoid all men traveling through campus&#8211;which was a little hairy because there was a small number of men that attended the school.</p>
<p>I just transferred to the Savannah College of art and Design, and at my orientation the SCAD security people talked about the self-defencse classes offered. Here&#8217;s the kicker: these self-defense classes are women-only. The scad security people are going to get that link that y&#8217;all posted.</p>
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		<title>By: oldfeminist</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14876</link>
		<dc:creator>oldfeminist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that intervention is a really effective strategy.  Sometimes all it takes is for someone to know you are watching.

I would disagree in part with the Oklahoma article claim that college men become rapists because of fraternities.

&quot;The programs that work best are aimed at fraternities, which are at the heart of the problem.  Men who join fraternities don’t have different histories of sexual behavior from those who don’t. The differences develop after they join the frat. Greek cultural norms promote sexual coercion and helping each other get laid. They support the myths that condone rape.&quot;

Sure, there are fraternities that indoctrinate college men into a certain mindset.

But the lies about rape that encourage it are already endemic to the culture.  Men in fraternities wouldn&#039;t take to these ideas so easily if they didn&#039;t already kind of believe them.

The most important thing one can gather from this statement is the fact that fraternity members are raised no different from non-fraternity members.  They&#039;re just more specifically trained by their &quot;brothers&quot; to rape.  

This means that the socialization that most young men get in this country doesn&#039;t really prepare them to treat women as human beings.  It doesn&#039;t immunize them against such dangerous beliefs.  

It&#039;s great that there are anti-rape programs in colleges, but it&#039;s obviously getting to a lot of men too late if these sick ideas about women and sex always seem to find plenty of fertile ground.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that intervention is a really effective strategy.  Sometimes all it takes is for someone to know you are watching.</p>
<p>I would disagree in part with the Oklahoma article claim that college men become rapists because of fraternities.</p>
<p>&#8220;The programs that work best are aimed at fraternities, which are at the heart of the problem.  Men who join fraternities don’t have different histories of sexual behavior from those who don’t. The differences develop after they join the frat. Greek cultural norms promote sexual coercion and helping each other get laid. They support the myths that condone rape.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, there are fraternities that indoctrinate college men into a certain mindset.</p>
<p>But the lies about rape that encourage it are already endemic to the culture.  Men in fraternities wouldn&#8217;t take to these ideas so easily if they didn&#8217;t already kind of believe them.</p>
<p>The most important thing one can gather from this statement is the fact that fraternity members are raised no different from non-fraternity members.  They&#8217;re just more specifically trained by their &#8220;brothers&#8221; to rape.  </p>
<p>This means that the socialization that most young men get in this country doesn&#8217;t really prepare them to treat women as human beings.  It doesn&#8217;t immunize them against such dangerous beliefs.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s great that there are anti-rape programs in colleges, but it&#8217;s obviously getting to a lot of men too late if these sick ideas about women and sex always seem to find plenty of fertile ground.</p>
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		<title>By: tallgirl-in-heels</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14832</link>
		<dc:creator>tallgirl-in-heels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sarah: I&#039;m glad he came to the realization, too.  I just wish the story had been printed in a magazine aimed at men and not a lady mag.  By targeting the story to a primarily female audience, it read more like a cautionary tale (beware ladies, don&#039;t get yourself into a similar situation) instead of an educational tool for other men about what rape is.  It&#039;s an unfortunate reflection of the general attitude that rape is a &quot;women&#039;s problem&quot; to be talked about and dealt with by women, even though the reality is that rape will not stop until men stop raping.  Period. We need to get men educated and involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sarah: I&#8217;m glad he came to the realization, too.  I just wish the story had been printed in a magazine aimed at men and not a lady mag.  By targeting the story to a primarily female audience, it read more like a cautionary tale (beware ladies, don&#8217;t get yourself into a similar situation) instead of an educational tool for other men about what rape is.  It&#8217;s an unfortunate reflection of the general attitude that rape is a &#8220;women&#8217;s problem&#8221; to be talked about and dealt with by women, even though the reality is that rape will not stop until men stop raping.  Period. We need to get men educated and involved.</p>
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		<title>By: x. trapnel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14823</link>
		<dc:creator>x. trapnel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Becky, while I agree with you in some respects, I think part of the problem is precisely that in many guys&#039; heads, the thought process is something like: &quot;Rape is a serious felony; I&#039;m a nice guy, not a criminal; therefore rape isn&#039;t something that I would ever do or need to think about.&quot; And if you *start* by directly challenging that, they get defensive: &quot;are you saying I&#039;m a criminal?!&quot; etc. It&#039;s hard to make progress from there.

Whereas the article SarahMC linked to above takes the approach of first making rape something that obviously does effect them, if only in a secondary way; by first encouraging empathy with victims, and not triggering the &quot;rape is only something Bad People / Criminals do&quot; reaction, the program has an easier time making a difference. Or so the article claims, and that doesn&#039;t surprise me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Becky, while I agree with you in some respects, I think part of the problem is precisely that in many guys&#8217; heads, the thought process is something like: &#8220;Rape is a serious felony; I&#8217;m a nice guy, not a criminal; therefore rape isn&#8217;t something that I would ever do or need to think about.&#8221; And if you *start* by directly challenging that, they get defensive: &#8220;are you saying I&#8217;m a criminal?!&#8221; etc. It&#8217;s hard to make progress from there.</p>
<p>Whereas the article SarahMC linked to above takes the approach of first making rape something that obviously does effect them, if only in a secondary way; by first encouraging empathy with victims, and not triggering the &#8220;rape is only something Bad People / Criminals do&#8221; reaction, the program has an easier time making a difference. Or so the article claims, and that doesn&#8217;t surprise me.</p>
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		<title>By: AmandaS</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14810</link>
		<dc:creator>AmandaS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14810</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll second the &quot;Go Oklahoma!&quot;  And I hope that with such a great program at OSU, the University of Oklahoma has improved their program in the years since I attended.  I remember absolutely zero discussion about safety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll second the &#8220;Go Oklahoma!&#8221;  And I hope that with such a great program at OSU, the University of Oklahoma has improved their program in the years since I attended.  I remember absolutely zero discussion about safety.</p>
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		<title>By: Edie</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14809</link>
		<dc:creator>Edie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a resident assistant at the University of Maine, and I love our new bystander intervention program called &quot;I Got Your Back.&quot; It concentrates on building community and respect. It&#039;s focus was at first on injuries and deaths caused by alcohol abuse, but we (the RA&#039;s and the community) have taken our training and applied to issues of sexual assault and education as well. We challenge our residents to be more aware of what rape, assault, and unsafe sex actually are. Challenging stereotypes on these topics is half the job. The other half seems to be making sure people really are invested in looking out for each other, challenging them to be responsible and interdependent citizens. I&#039;m very confident about our new program.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a resident assistant at the University of Maine, and I love our new bystander intervention program called &#8220;I Got Your Back.&#8221; It concentrates on building community and respect. It&#8217;s focus was at first on injuries and deaths caused by alcohol abuse, but we (the RA&#8217;s and the community) have taken our training and applied to issues of sexual assault and education as well. We challenge our residents to be more aware of what rape, assault, and unsafe sex actually are. Challenging stereotypes on these topics is half the job. The other half seems to be making sure people really are invested in looking out for each other, challenging them to be responsible and interdependent citizens. I&#8217;m very confident about our new program.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14805</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tallgirl, that&#039;s chilling.  I can&#039;t believe he actually came to that realization (though I&#039;m glad he did).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tallgirl, that&#8217;s chilling.  I can&#8217;t believe he actually came to that realization (though I&#8217;m glad he did).</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Trooskin-Zoller</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14796</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Trooskin-Zoller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the large state university I went to, when I arrived in 1991 there&#039;d just been (maybe the year before?) a new set of guidelines released on-campus regarding consent, suggesting that consent be explicitly asked for and explicitly given at each stage of physical contact.  I never actually saw the guidelines themselves, but I got the impression they didn&#039;t include much discussion or theory.

The people in my (co-ed) dorm found the whole thing quite hilarious, and regularly acted out exaggerated make-out scenes with pauses every few seconds for a &quot;May I touch you here?&quot; &quot;why yes, you may&quot; conversation.

A decade and a half later, I hear about the &quot;Yes Means Yes&quot; anthology and the concept of &quot;enthusiastic consent&quot; and I finally realize that I was incredibly lucky to be in an environment where that sort of thing would be suggested, so long ago.  And I&#039;m embarrassed that at the time, I found it as funny as all my peers did.

I have no clue how to get people in their late teens and early twenties to think past their simple assumptions about rape &amp; consent.  Too often what we hear is like the guy in @tallgirl-in-heels&#039;s story, where we only figure it out much later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the large state university I went to, when I arrived in 1991 there&#8217;d just been (maybe the year before?) a new set of guidelines released on-campus regarding consent, suggesting that consent be explicitly asked for and explicitly given at each stage of physical contact.  I never actually saw the guidelines themselves, but I got the impression they didn&#8217;t include much discussion or theory.</p>
<p>The people in my (co-ed) dorm found the whole thing quite hilarious, and regularly acted out exaggerated make-out scenes with pauses every few seconds for a &#8220;May I touch you here?&#8221; &#8220;why yes, you may&#8221; conversation.</p>
<p>A decade and a half later, I hear about the &#8220;Yes Means Yes&#8221; anthology and the concept of &#8220;enthusiastic consent&#8221; and I finally realize that I was incredibly lucky to be in an environment where that sort of thing would be suggested, so long ago.  And I&#8217;m embarrassed that at the time, I found it as funny as all my peers did.</p>
<p>I have no clue how to get people in their late teens and early twenties to think past their simple assumptions about rape &amp; consent.  Too often what we hear is like the guy in @tallgirl-in-heels&#8217;s story, where we only figure it out much later.</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14791</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@barqiel: The law should apply on campus as well as in the outside world. I think universities&#039; need to deal with things &quot;in-house&quot; is left over from when universities were supposed to function in loco parentis. That&#039;s bullshit, IMO. College students are legally adults and then should be subject to the same laws as everyone else--which includes the university&#039;s involving law enforcement when a crime is reported.

I know that many rapes that occur on college campuses would be difficult to prove, and many women might not want to report them because of that, but that shouldn&#039;t stop the university from saying &quot;Rape is a crime. Sex offenders on our campus will be prosecuted.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@barqiel: The law should apply on campus as well as in the outside world. I think universities&#8217; need to deal with things &#8220;in-house&#8221; is left over from when universities were supposed to function in loco parentis. That&#8217;s bullshit, IMO. College students are legally adults and then should be subject to the same laws as everyone else&#8211;which includes the university&#8217;s involving law enforcement when a crime is reported.</p>
<p>I know that many rapes that occur on college campuses would be difficult to prove, and many women might not want to report them because of that, but that shouldn&#8217;t stop the university from saying &#8220;Rape is a crime. Sex offenders on our campus will be prosecuted.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: vickimae</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/09/10/school-daze/comment-page-1/#comment-14789</link>
		<dc:creator>vickimae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10105#comment-14789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Go Oklahoma! 
Ahem. I totally agree that education for men needs to be as widespread as &#039;prevention&#039; lectures are for  women. As other commentators have mentioned, you don&#039;t think that &#039;good&#039; guys should have to be told this stuff, but statistically 80+% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, clearly, somethings gotta give.
There are a lot of middle-school and high school level co-ed education programs that are happening right now and many school districts are adding dating violence education as mandatory. Oklahoma is actually considering making it a state-wide requirement. Which is good, considering the stats on teen dating violence, violence against women and child abuse; the state has a lot of issues. 
Check out Love is Not Abuse (http://www.loveisnotabuse.com)
for some stats that will blow your mind about teen dating violence, especially the influence of technology (like cell phones) on relationships.

/Okie SA advocate]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Oklahoma!<br />
Ahem. I totally agree that education for men needs to be as widespread as &#8216;prevention&#8217; lectures are for  women. As other commentators have mentioned, you don&#8217;t think that &#8216;good&#8217; guys should have to be told this stuff, but statistically 80+% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, clearly, somethings gotta give.<br />
There are a lot of middle-school and high school level co-ed education programs that are happening right now and many school districts are adding dating violence education as mandatory. Oklahoma is actually considering making it a state-wide requirement. Which is good, considering the stats on teen dating violence, violence against women and child abuse; the state has a lot of issues.<br />
Check out Love is Not Abuse (<a href="http://www.loveisnotabuse.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.loveisnotabuse.com</a>)<br />
for some stats that will blow your mind about teen dating violence, especially the influence of technology (like cell phones) on relationships.</p>
<p>/Okie SA advocate</p>
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