If you’re regular reader, you’ll know that last month, I went through a bit of a personal upheaval that resulted in the Dude and me having to find a new home with almost no notice. The experience has been slightly short of hellish, but only due to the generosity of our friends. Now, however, we’re in our new place, and all we have to do is turn in our keys and get back our security deposit.
However, as several readers and any number of my meatspace friends have queried, we are hoping to recoup the financial cost of the move, since there’s no way we’d be able to get back the lost hours of work and sleep and worry. There is an outside chance that this might mean legal action, but, to minimize our entanglement with the owner of the previous building owner (hereafter “Slumlord”), we’re first going to try the simpler route of asking for compensation directly.
We’ve been informed that Slumlord is a sensitive man with delicate feelings, and that, while not a monster, he will “shut down” any request that he feels is an attack. So, should we want to succeed in our COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED quest to have our FORCED move paid for, we should “be nice.” As you might imagine, this has every single vein in my head throbbing with barely-contained fury. We were also told that we might have an even better chance of getting reimbursed if I, not the Dude, were to go to Slumlord and plead our case, possibly while batting my eyelashes and appealing to his manly sense of manliness to pwease, pwease! save me, Big Mister Slumlord! Save me from the problems you caused by your criminally negligent assholery!
Fortunately, it was the Dude who received this message, or I might have left my brains splattered all over our former, still-highly-flammable apartment. To his great credit, the Dude demurred on that point on my behalf, saying “errrm, I don’t think Dork is the woman for that job.” Right he was. It would be difficult for me to refrain from verbally flaying Slumlord were I to see him again; the idea of going All-Out Bambi to flatter his ego elicits a particular kind of rage-nausea to which I’m not yet accustomed.
However, we do need–and yes, are OWED–this money, and so I ask you, adored readers: what would you do? What do you do in situations where you are at a clear disadvantage all the way round? Do you use the Master’s Tools to get what you want/need/deserve, even if it makes you feel cheapened? Do you tell the Master to shove it up his everlovin’ ass, and savor the taste of your righteous fury while you choke down ramen noodles and cheap, limp, about-to-expire produce for a few months? Do you approach the Master as an equal, trying to save your self-respect while still attaining your goal?
My mother says “do what you have to to get the money, and then put it all behind you.” Laugh all the way to the bank, in other words. Or, as BeckySharper phrased it the other day: fuck the Man with his own dick. I see their point, especially, as feminists have pointed out repeatedly here (and elsewhere): the Big P is set up to screw you over no matter what you do. So, shouldn’t we take what benefits–however compromised, however filthy–we can wring from it? Or do those benefits more deeply entrench the double-standards and justifications that the Patriarchy uses to further disenfranchise women (and non-alpha men)? If there’s no winning, how do you lose less?
I don’t have a satisfactory answer to the larger question, but right now, I’m barely capable of approaching Slumlord in a civil fashion; the idea of playing his knight-and-damsel game is utterly repellent. I think I would loathe myself if I attempted it. I think I would cry hot tears of disgust all the way to the bank.
But the bill hasn’t come due yet. Thoughts?
hm. I don’t know, I don’t think the way to go is to be super nice. I’d be fairly assertive (although not needlessly abusive) right from the get-go. Write a letter, inform him that the move cost X, you’ll be happy to submit receipts/invoices to him and that you expect him to reimburse you in full or you’ll be taking legal action.
That is quite the dilemma. I don’t know if asking this gentleman to comply with the law is the best path to take because you already have a shitload of evidence that he does not feel it is necessary to do that.
Also, is there really a reason to kiss his ass and let him feel as though he is in a position of power? I mean, his building was just condemned.
I think I would skip being nice and probably skip speaking to him altogether and proceed directly to threatening. Depending on which would scare him more and your personal level of comfort, I think you should either employ a large and scary man or a smart and scary lawyer to convince him, on your behalf, to give you your money.
If you can find a lawyer who is also physically threatening, that would be gravy.
If you possibly can, take comfort in the fact that the good people at the NYC DOB are already giving Slumlord a lube-free ream-out straight from his worst nightmares.
I’m not always philisophically opposed to getting over on the Man by exploiting his sexism. It’s cultural jiujitsu: using an opponent’s innate strength to escape or disable him.
But in this case…I couldn’t do it either. I’d restrain my homicidal rage, present the case for repayment firmly but politely and see what happens. If he refuses to repay you, tell him you’ll see him in small claims court. Either you or the Dude could do it.
“Or do those benefits more deeply entrench the double-standards and justifications that the Patriarchy uses to further disenfranchise women (and non-alpha men)?”
Yes. I’m glad you can see that.
I’m with bluebears on this one. What she said.
I’d take bluebears’ advice and possibly hire bluebears as your lawyer.
I’m with bluebears too, because, really, do you have ANY reasonable assurances that it will work anyway? If his building’s been condemned, he’s likely to “need” the money himself, and won’t want to part with it no matter what he might have done in easier days. I would definitely write the letter, maybe deliver it in person in an assertive way, but you could maybe say “we’re sorry this happened, we liked living here” and that’s not batting your eyelashes, it’s just human to human. But know that most likely it’s going to mean legal action. Treat it like a business transaction.
I’m with everyone who thinks that no matter how you ask for the money, you are unlikely to get it from a guy who can’t be bothered to take care of his building and tenants.
I had trouble getting a security deposit back from my last landlord and for a while I did approach it in a “nice” way for the following reasons:1. The landlord was actually a nice guy who tended to be a bit scattered, but would generally get things done. 2. I didn’t want to travel back to Philly to initiate court proceedings. 3. I wasn’t going to starve while waiting. and 4. I thought it might be more effective to take the “nice” approach.
I think you can guess that this was NOT effective at all. What was effective was when I followed the advice of lawyer friends and I sent him a letter saying I was starting small claims court proceedings and that he could possibly owe me twice the amount of the deposit because so much time had passed. So in the end, no court and I got my money back.
Whatever route you take, put it in writing and send it certified mail with a return receipt. If you speak in person, memorialize the conversation in writing and do the same. Good luck!
@sarahmc: I’d do it for free if I was licensed in NYC!
I’d definitely stoop to the level of using my feminine wiles to get something I was owed, if I thought it would work. It’s just that it so rarely does, at least not with regard to cold hard cash. The cable guy might hook you up with a lower rate for another six months, but when it comes to actual money, I don’t think smiling and batting eyelashes generally does the trick.
So I cosign with everyone who tells you to write a firm letter stating your expectations and the consequences if they’re not met. Send it registered mail so you have a receipt, and give him a deadline by which to respond. At the very least, you’ll have evidence supporting your case if you have to go to court.
Out of curiosity, what does PSoul say? Isn’t she licensed in New York?
Like Penny_Esq, I’d use my feminine wiles in a heartbeat if it meant getting money back that I was owed, without thinking twice about it.
Personally, what I’d do in this situation is go in there, try to play up to him (batting eyelashes, playing the poor aggrieved woman role, etc) and see where that gets you. If that doesn’t work, fall back on the polite but firm insistence that he rightly owes you this money. If that still doesn’t work, then fall back on threats (and even pursuit) of small claims court action.
But, whatever you do, don’t yell and get angry. Yeah, you have every right to, but it won’t get you anywhere. As the cliche goes, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
This dilemma is moot for me because I don’t have any feminine wiles. Even if I tried to do the Bambi routine, it would probably come out as, “Pay up, motherfucker, before I litigate your ass into the poorhouse faster than you can say ‘slumlord.’” But that’s just me.
I am not convinced “feminine wiles” would accomplish anything in this situation. Maybe if he’d expressed romantic/sexual interest in you, but even then you’d probably have to sleep with him to get anything out of it.
I don’t have feminine wiles, though. He’d probs be like, “Do you have something in your eye?”
I’m on board with everyone who says write a letter, make sure you have proof that it was delivered, etc. Be firm and assertive but reasonable. Note that this does not mean that you have to be dispassionate; you went through a lot of upheaval and it’s fine to document how difficult this has been. But don’t treat the letter as a main outlet for your anger and frustration. I’d also advise against “using your feminine wiles” to try to charm him into getting your money. Remember that if you do have to start legal action, whatever letter you write (or interactions you have with the landlord) will likely be a part of your case. Don’t do anything you’d regret having to explain to a judge. If you act like a reasonable person asserting a legitimate claim, you make it easier for the court to see things your way if it comes to that.
A few other thoughts. Eons ago I did some pro bono work (as part of a law school clinic) for low-income tenants trying to get repairs from their a-hole landlord. Slumlords count on and use to their advantage the fact that most people do not know their legal rights. Knowing exactly what the law entitles you to in this situation and citing to the appropriate codes/statutes/ordinances will strengthen your letter and signal to the landlord that he’s not dealing with someone he can just brush aside. I’d imagine that NYC has a lot of community organizations that deal with housing that can help you in that regard. You may be able to consult with someone, a lawyer even, for cheap or free that can give you some pointers about writing an effective letter that will also be a good piece of evidence if you do have to go to court. Good luck!!!
I’m another who agrees with bluebears. I tend to advocate for polite but firm, even if I personally find that difficult. Antagonizing people doesn’t help, but neither does acting “weak” because then the assholes feel they can walk all over you.
And put me down as another woman without operable “womanly wiles”.
I think it might be worth trying to reach out to him in a way that isn’t confrontational. He’s a slumlord, yes, but he probably doesn’t think of himself as a slumlord.
One approach would be to express sympathy at the difficulties he must be going through getting his building condemned, express that you’re sure there must have been extenuating circumstances on his part, and say something along the lines of “from everything I know about you, you’re the sort of stand-up guy who would want to do right by his tenants in an unfortunate situation.”
Basically, flatter his perception of himself as Not A Bad Person, because then he has a reason to maintain it. No reason you would have to be the person to take this approach – a man could do it just as much.
None of this is to say that you don’t have a right to your anger, or that lawyers and firmly worded letters aren’t a valid approach. But, there are ways to be sympathetic without playacting helplessness, if you wanted to go that route.
Have you done a little research as to what reasonable compensation should be in this situation? You may or may not be owed the full amount of the move. Then again, there way be some things you’ve missed that should be covered. I would definitely start with that, then proceed to the polite, but firm letter.
Personally, I’m loathe to use feminine wiles in this type of professional situation. It usually doesn’t work, and if it doesn’t, you wasted time and put yourself in a position of lesser power.
Hmm, difficult. It really depends on what you feel comfortable with and what you think would work (as others have pointed out, the Bambi approach might completely fail, but I think that writing even a very polite-yet-firm letter could also fail, especially if you’re not prepared to take legal action).
Personally, I’d do it. The way I feel about it is, if I had the choice, I wouldn’t put my body in the context of something I could offer men to get men to do stuff for me. But since my body is placed in that context against my will, when I can get benefit from it that I couldn’t get any other way, I’ll take advantage of the situation. Within limits, of course — batting eyelashes and moderately low-cut tops are as far as I’ll go on this one.
ITA with tallgirl-in-heels: the friendly but bursting with knowledge letter has been my friend in many situations. I almost always shy away from being overtly antagonistic, b/c it always ends up in a shittier, more angry interaction. That, and I’m never fully satisfied by an emtotional screaming match, so it’s definitely not worth the cost.
I’m also another one who doesn’t think that her wiles are feminine enough to carry something like this off – while I will play to certain distasteful narratives if it suits my needs (allowing someone to feel that they’re ‘helping me out’ when they’re really just doing what they’re legally obliged to do, etc.), I haven’t ever been in a situation where flirting for cash seemed tempting. I also deeply doubt my ability to pull it off, which may be why I’ve never been tempted.
Regardless, good luck on doing this – having done some work in Kings County small claims court, I know that you all are in good company (sadly) when it comes to trying to make things right around housing.
Just to clarify a few things: the building is not condemned, but IS undergoing major constructions/renovations. It’s a fucking mess over there, and not just because Slumlord isn’t using union (or perhaps even licensed) builders.
Slumlord is already paying out the bunghole for the renos, and I’m sure he has license fees and penalty fees and all the rest. Of course, the man is obscenely wealthy–he bought in Williamsburg at the right time, and the building is currently worth probably 1000x (no joke!) what he paid for it–but he’s also weirdly uninterested in real-estate-as-investment. He owns all kinds of buildings, but apparently, they’re a “hobby.” Apparently, the guy is also a complete nutter.
There is no question that I’d flirt. My body would no doubt rebel, and I’d rage-puke all over his shoes. But could I make myself approach him as a supplicant? Could I ask for his help? That’s what I’m not sure of.
I really just want the Dude to handle this, to make it all go away, but then I think I’m just abdicating my responsibility, and/or saying “that’s boy-stuff!” or something. And he’s almost as angry as I am. On top of that, I’m frustrated at how fucking infuriated I still feel. I want this guy to pay and pay and pay, and that’s not a good place to be operating from.
While I suppose I could fall back on feminine wiles, my tendency to want to beat the shit out of people who fall for them would probably not help the situation. Sooo, if I thought talking to him first might be useful, I’d send my partner over rather than go myself because he’s far more likely, and able, to do what Psyche suggests, i.e., flatter Slumlord’s perception of himself as not being a bad person and generally commiserate with him over our shared bad luck.
But really, I think it’s best to skip straight to the pleasant but knowledgeable letter. It’s likely he’ll pay up rather than risk a court case and having to pay far more later. Good luck.
Ditto pedimd–
We had a similar situation that– after several polite phone calls asking for return of a deposit– I handled w/ a nice, scary letter with “Esq.” at the bottom. (Convenient perk of being an attorney, likely unnecessary.)
Basically I learned my rights for small claims court. I told him he could return my deposit within 2 weeks of the letter or I’d begin small claims court. I found out I’d be entitled to my deposit, plus three times my costs (including the cost of returning to another state to fight it.) I estimated the total cost, and plain old cost-benefit analysis showed him paying up would be cheaper.
I always appeal to raw economics.
If it was a matter of getting your landlord or super to do a simple repair, sure, flirt away. It might work for a while, until the guy in question realized you weren’t gonna fuck him, then you’d just have a more resentful and unhelpful landlord or super.
I think the people giving you the advice to be the one to work the landlord have misguided (and in this case) overly optimistic ideas about the myth of young women’s “power” in this society. If merely batting your eyes and being young and cute was enough, those interns wouldn’t have been screwing David Letterman, right? Feminine wiles isn’t going to work. In my experience, using the much touted “power of female sexuality” doesn’t actually gain a girl or woman much – unless there’s something exchanged beyond flirting and eye-batting. Not to say “don’t flatter yourself”, but don’t flatter yourself – the neighborhood is filled with pretty young hipster women, and just being ingratiating eyecandy isn’t enough to get someone to roll over and give you money.
I say don’t compromise your values on this one – partly because it’s not gonna work anyway. And I call bullshit on the people suggesting that the landlord will react better to you asking for the money – sure, he might be more polite if you act flirtatious and accommodating and nonthreatening, and happier to see a young woman than deal with a man, but it doesn’t mean he’s gonna pay up. I think the people suggesting this course of action see young women getting attention from men, but don’t understand that this attention rarely translates into free goods and services – you may get a door opened for you, the guy at the bodega may flirt with you, and the landlord might smile and drool over you, but when was the last time a business owner gave you free stuff just because you’re pretty?
Getting money from a NYC landlord is rough. I live in the city too – the laws are not as tenant-friendly as one would hope. Good luck.
Ugh. Just want to amend the first part of my post: merely acting nice and friendly and human can invoke the resentment of asshole guys who read friendliness as some sort of promise for future sexual favors. I’m certainly not blaming women for inspiring resentment or hostility when we don’t “put out” on command. Just saying that being young and cute and female rarely generates free goods and services or actual power. It’s not a power dynamic that’s tipped to our benefit.
I’d go with Psyche up top, and sympathize with his renovations/tenant removal and flatter his idea of him being a stand-up guy…and then politely ask for your money. Don’t do anything that your dude couldn’t/wouldn’t do, just being rational and female usually generates a whole lot more reaction than you’d expect. (Take this from a woman who grew up around a mother who used her beauty to get what she wanted, all the time.Alot of the time, it’s not even necessary and keeps those gender stereotypes alive and well!) No eyelash batting, no cooing over him, just imagine him as a friend and say…”well, landlord, this whole situation sucks, because everyone is out and I liked living here. Now, I know you try to do the right thing, and we’ve been out funds from the move, so is there any way you could…” if he says no, then let him know it saddens you he’s not living up to the stand up guy you thought he was, that legally you’re entitled to the funds, and send a registered letter, with codes and legal action threatened if needed. Not every time, but usually, I’ve found that people react like good people if you call them on it!
If you feel like using your feminine wiles to get him to be decent will just make you explode with rage onto his face, I wouldn’t try it. Polite-but-firm can be read as flirty, or it can be read as bitchy (there’s no in-between for the ladies). But if you’re that angry, then on top of that you’re conflicted about even being ladylike, I don’t think you can do it. At least, I couldn’t. I can be polite and allow someone else to think I’m being all girly girl nicety nice as long as there aren’t too many things straining my patience. Once that threshold is crossed, though, it’s like a black cloud in a cartoon, and suddenly my face turns demony like in the Lord of the Rings movie when Bilbo sees the ring on Frodo’s neck and tries to grab it and the demon-y part comes out. Then I get angry and the pretense of my submissiveness quickly disintegrates.
But in general, I don’t think it’s necessarily unethical to use cultural stereotypes to your advantage, in certain situations. I rarely do it specifically via my femininity, but do tend to lean on my relative youth, and the fact that I look like a very nice, Polish, young lady. So rather than be all “I’m a sexy lady fall for my sultry ways and do my bidding,” it’s more “Oh come on man I could be your daughter! What would you want someone to do for your daughter if she were in this position?!” It’s not the best thing for the movement, but there are some things that are really non-negotiable for me, and for which I kind of have no choice but to do what I have to do to get what I need (like things having to do with money, because I’m poor). Also, I don’t usually do it consciously. Like, when I got a speeding ticket in college and was going to have to pay $300, but the judge asked me what my father did when he found out that I got pulled over (the car was in my dad’s name), I was like “Oh, he yelled at me,” implication: like you would have if you were my dad. I didn’t have to pay. I didn’t really realize I was doing it at the time, though–the judge just kind of looked like my dad, so I responded accordingly. Though, I actually never speed now because I’m so scared I’ll get pulled over again, so the laws: they work!
When I do choose to do it, it’s usually because the person I’m dealing with is an asshole. If it’s with an annoying person–like, say, someone who owes me something and appears unwilling to do it, I might start playing roles. But once it becomes clear that they will not give me what I want, or once they do give me what I want, I revert to mean old me. Like, “Good thing you gave me my security deposit–it would have been so annoying to take you to small claims court! Ha ha ha.”
Playing to type isn’t good. But also, if there’s a person who is so dense that they will encourage, or expect, you to play that part in an interaction, they are the type of person who will hold on to stereotypes no matter what you do. So, if you’re assertive and firm instead of giggle and cute, you’re just a bitchy bitch bitchy. If you giggle, you’re a woman with wiles who manipulates men. Some people just will. not. change, and if you have to deal with them, sometimes it’s just best to recognize it and do what’s easiest.
This is a tough one. If I were you, PhDork, I would be so incredibly angry I would really, really want to bring him to court. (That’s part of the reason we’re all feminists, right? We want things to be FAIR, damnit.)
That being said, if dragging this creep to court was going to be a nightmare, I would be inclined to follow Psyche’s suggestion. It would, in my book, at least be worth a try to play to his ego and attempt to extract the money (relatively) painlessly.
Either way, you have my utmost sympathies.
The only reason landlords can do this is because they assume most people don’t know their legal rights. I also once had the problem of having to fight a landlord for the security deposit they legally owed me (and were claiming I could only pick up in person, for which I would have had to miss work hours). I sent a letter quoting the specific laws, in their Legal-ese glory, to show that the law was on my side. A couple days after the letter, I got the most over-polite phone call I’ve ever received, from a very apologetic lawyer. A few days after that, I had my check, with another $3 in interest added over my original calculations.
I don’t know where you live, but if it’s in Illinois, the relevant law is Section 715/2: http://www.renters-rights.com/html/illinois.html. I assume other states also have the text of the laws on-line somewhere, and some city ordinances are more generous to tenants than the state laws. Citing a particular legal code makes threatening a lawsuit more credible.
Then, if you actually need a lawyer, a lot will make contingency arrangements. (They don’t get paid until you do, and then they just get a percentage of that.) Try http://www.naca.net.
I am ridiculously late to this and you have probably already taken care of the problem, but for what it’s worth:
I would say not to bother with the feminine wiles. I can understand Becky’s point, and I’m not above batting my eyelashes for a good cause (i.e. when surveying radical Republicans at a town hall meeting in an attempt to understand why they believe what they do. I find people are more willing to tell you things like that if you let them take you for a dumb girl, galling as that may be, since they will see an opportunity to ‘teach’ you why they are right. Not that I really came out much the wiser in that case, since it was pretty much all hyperbolic nonsense.)
But here, you have a legal right to compensation, you’re not asking him for any extraordinary favors. And even if he wants to ‘shut down’, he has no choice but to face up to you and the shitstorm he created.
I’m falling asleep in my chair, so I hope that made sense!
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