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	<title>Comments on: A Feminist Dilemma</title>
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	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: A Feminist Dilemma: Volume 2 - The Pursuit of Harpyness</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16600</link>
		<dc:creator>A Feminist Dilemma: Volume 2 - The Pursuit of Harpyness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;Feminist Dilemma&#8221; post gave rise to some intra-Harpy discussion of my own recent feminist dilemma. Y&#8217;all [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Feminist Dilemma&#8221; post gave rise to some intra-Harpy discussion of my own recent feminist dilemma. Y&#8217;all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Endora</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16290</link>
		<dc:creator>Endora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am ridiculously late to this and you have probably already taken care of the problem, but for what it&#039;s worth:

I would say not to bother with the feminine wiles.  I can understand Becky&#039;s point, and I&#039;m not above batting my eyelashes for a good cause (i.e. when surveying radical Republicans at a town hall meeting in an attempt to understand why they believe what they do.  I find people are more willing to tell you things like that if you let them take you for a dumb girl, galling as that may be, since they will see an opportunity to &#039;teach&#039; you why they are right.  Not that I really came out much the wiser in that case, since it was pretty much all hyperbolic nonsense.)

But here, you have a legal right to compensation, you&#039;re not asking him for any extraordinary favors. And even if he wants to &#039;shut down&#039;, he has no choice but to face up to you and the shitstorm he created. 

I&#039;m falling asleep in my chair, so I hope that made sense!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am ridiculously late to this and you have probably already taken care of the problem, but for what it&#8217;s worth:</p>
<p>I would say not to bother with the feminine wiles.  I can understand Becky&#8217;s point, and I&#8217;m not above batting my eyelashes for a good cause (i.e. when surveying radical Republicans at a town hall meeting in an attempt to understand why they believe what they do.  I find people are more willing to tell you things like that if you let them take you for a dumb girl, galling as that may be, since they will see an opportunity to &#8216;teach&#8217; you why they are right.  Not that I really came out much the wiser in that case, since it was pretty much all hyperbolic nonsense.)</p>
<p>But here, you have a legal right to compensation, you&#8217;re not asking him for any extraordinary favors. And even if he wants to &#8216;shut down&#8217;, he has no choice but to face up to you and the shitstorm he created. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m falling asleep in my chair, so I hope that made sense!</p>
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		<title>By: Annabelle</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16275</link>
		<dc:creator>Annabelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only reason landlords can do this is because they assume most people don&#039;t know their legal rights.  I also once had the problem of having to fight a landlord for the security deposit they legally owed me (and were claiming I could only pick up in person, for which I would have had to miss work hours).  I sent a letter quoting the specific laws, in their Legal-ese glory, to show that the law was on my side.  A couple days after the letter, I got the most over-polite phone call I&#039;ve ever received, from a very apologetic lawyer.  A few days after that, I had my check, with another $3 in interest added over my original calculations.

I don&#039;t know where you live, but if it&#039;s in Illinois, the relevant law is Section 715/2: http://www.renters-rights.com/html/illinois.html.  I assume other states also have the text of the laws on-line somewhere, and some city ordinances are more generous to tenants than the state laws.  Citing a particular legal code makes threatening a lawsuit more credible.

Then, if you actually need a lawyer, a lot will make contingency arrangements.  (They don&#039;t get paid until you do, and then they just get a percentage of that.)  Try www.naca.net.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only reason landlords can do this is because they assume most people don&#8217;t know their legal rights.  I also once had the problem of having to fight a landlord for the security deposit they legally owed me (and were claiming I could only pick up in person, for which I would have had to miss work hours).  I sent a letter quoting the specific laws, in their Legal-ese glory, to show that the law was on my side.  A couple days after the letter, I got the most over-polite phone call I&#8217;ve ever received, from a very apologetic lawyer.  A few days after that, I had my check, with another $3 in interest added over my original calculations.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know where you live, but if it&#8217;s in Illinois, the relevant law is Section 715/2: <a href="http://www.renters-rights.com/html/illinois.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.renters-rights.com/html/illinois.html</a>.  I assume other states also have the text of the laws on-line somewhere, and some city ordinances are more generous to tenants than the state laws.  Citing a particular legal code makes threatening a lawsuit more credible.</p>
<p>Then, if you actually need a lawyer, a lot will make contingency arrangements.  (They don&#8217;t get paid until you do, and then they just get a percentage of that.)  Try <a href="http://www.naca.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.naca.net</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: rainy_day</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16245</link>
		<dc:creator>rainy_day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a tough one. If I were you, PhDork, I would be so incredibly angry I would really, really want to bring him to court. (That&#039;s part of the reason we&#039;re all feminists, right? We want things to be FAIR, damnit.)

That being said, if dragging this creep to court was going to be a nightmare, I would be inclined to follow Psyche&#039;s suggestion. It would, in my book, at least be worth a try to play to his ego and attempt to extract the money (relatively) painlessly.

Either way, you have my utmost sympathies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a tough one. If I were you, PhDork, I would be so incredibly angry I would really, really want to bring him to court. (That&#8217;s part of the reason we&#8217;re all feminists, right? We want things to be FAIR, damnit.)</p>
<p>That being said, if dragging this creep to court was going to be a nightmare, I would be inclined to follow Psyche&#8217;s suggestion. It would, in my book, at least be worth a try to play to his ego and attempt to extract the money (relatively) painlessly.</p>
<p>Either way, you have my utmost sympathies.</p>
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		<title>By: Cimorene</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16232</link>
		<dc:creator>Cimorene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you feel like using your feminine wiles to get him to be decent will just make you explode with rage onto his face, I wouldn&#039;t try it. Polite-but-firm can be read as flirty, or it can be read as bitchy (there&#039;s no in-between for the ladies).  But if you&#039;re that angry, then on top of that you&#039;re conflicted about even being ladylike, I don&#039;t think you can do it. At least, I couldn&#039;t. I can be polite and allow someone else to think I&#039;m being all girly girl nicety nice as long as there aren&#039;t too many things straining my patience.  Once that threshold is crossed, though, it&#039;s like a black cloud in a cartoon, and suddenly my face turns demony like in the Lord of the Rings movie when Bilbo sees the ring on Frodo&#039;s neck and tries to grab it and the demon-y part comes out.  Then I get angry and the pretense of my submissiveness quickly disintegrates.

But in general, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s necessarily unethical to use cultural stereotypes to your advantage, in certain situations. I rarely do it specifically via my femininity, but do tend to lean on my relative youth, and the fact that I look like a very nice, Polish, young lady. So rather than be all &quot;I&#039;m a sexy lady fall for my sultry ways and do my bidding,&quot; it&#039;s more &quot;Oh come on man I could be your daughter! What would you want someone to do for your daughter if she were in this position?!&quot; It&#039;s not the best thing for the movement, but there are some things that are really non-negotiable for me, and for which I kind of have no choice but to do what I have to do to get what I need (like things having to do with money, because I&#039;m poor).  Also, I don&#039;t usually do it consciously. Like, when I got a speeding ticket in college and was going to have to pay $300, but the judge asked me what my father did when he found out that I got pulled over (the car was in my dad&#039;s name), I was like &quot;Oh, he yelled at me,&quot; implication: like you would have if you were my dad. I didn&#039;t have to pay. I didn&#039;t really realize I was doing it at the time, though--the judge just kind of looked like my dad, so I responded accordingly.  Though, I actually never speed now because I&#039;m so scared I&#039;ll get pulled over again, so the laws: they work! 

When I do choose to do it, it&#039;s usually because the person I&#039;m dealing with is an asshole. If it&#039;s with an annoying person--like, say, someone who owes me something and appears unwilling to do it, I might start playing roles. But once it becomes clear that they will not give me what I want, or once they do give me what I want, I revert to mean old me. Like, &quot;Good thing you gave me my security deposit--it would have been so annoying to take you to small claims court! Ha ha ha.&quot;

Playing to type isn&#039;t good. But also, if there&#039;s a person who is so dense that they will encourage, or expect, you to play that part in an interaction, they are the type of person who will hold on to stereotypes no matter what you do. So, if you&#039;re assertive and firm instead of giggle and cute, you&#039;re just a bitchy bitch bitchy. If you giggle, you&#039;re a woman with wiles who manipulates men. Some people just will. not. change, and if you have to deal with them, sometimes it&#039;s just best to recognize it and do what&#039;s easiest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you feel like using your feminine wiles to get him to be decent will just make you explode with rage onto his face, I wouldn&#8217;t try it. Polite-but-firm can be read as flirty, or it can be read as bitchy (there&#8217;s no in-between for the ladies).  But if you&#8217;re that angry, then on top of that you&#8217;re conflicted about even being ladylike, I don&#8217;t think you can do it. At least, I couldn&#8217;t. I can be polite and allow someone else to think I&#8217;m being all girly girl nicety nice as long as there aren&#8217;t too many things straining my patience.  Once that threshold is crossed, though, it&#8217;s like a black cloud in a cartoon, and suddenly my face turns demony like in the Lord of the Rings movie when Bilbo sees the ring on Frodo&#8217;s neck and tries to grab it and the demon-y part comes out.  Then I get angry and the pretense of my submissiveness quickly disintegrates.</p>
<p>But in general, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessarily unethical to use cultural stereotypes to your advantage, in certain situations. I rarely do it specifically via my femininity, but do tend to lean on my relative youth, and the fact that I look like a very nice, Polish, young lady. So rather than be all &#8220;I&#8217;m a sexy lady fall for my sultry ways and do my bidding,&#8221; it&#8217;s more &#8220;Oh come on man I could be your daughter! What would you want someone to do for your daughter if she were in this position?!&#8221; It&#8217;s not the best thing for the movement, but there are some things that are really non-negotiable for me, and for which I kind of have no choice but to do what I have to do to get what I need (like things having to do with money, because I&#8217;m poor).  Also, I don&#8217;t usually do it consciously. Like, when I got a speeding ticket in college and was going to have to pay $300, but the judge asked me what my father did when he found out that I got pulled over (the car was in my dad&#8217;s name), I was like &#8220;Oh, he yelled at me,&#8221; implication: like you would have if you were my dad. I didn&#8217;t have to pay. I didn&#8217;t really realize I was doing it at the time, though&#8211;the judge just kind of looked like my dad, so I responded accordingly.  Though, I actually never speed now because I&#8217;m so scared I&#8217;ll get pulled over again, so the laws: they work! </p>
<p>When I do choose to do it, it&#8217;s usually because the person I&#8217;m dealing with is an asshole. If it&#8217;s with an annoying person&#8211;like, say, someone who owes me something and appears unwilling to do it, I might start playing roles. But once it becomes clear that they will not give me what I want, or once they do give me what I want, I revert to mean old me. Like, &#8220;Good thing you gave me my security deposit&#8211;it would have been so annoying to take you to small claims court! Ha ha ha.&#8221;</p>
<p>Playing to type isn&#8217;t good. But also, if there&#8217;s a person who is so dense that they will encourage, or expect, you to play that part in an interaction, they are the type of person who will hold on to stereotypes no matter what you do. So, if you&#8217;re assertive and firm instead of giggle and cute, you&#8217;re just a bitchy bitch bitchy. If you giggle, you&#8217;re a woman with wiles who manipulates men. Some people just will. not. change, and if you have to deal with them, sometimes it&#8217;s just best to recognize it and do what&#8217;s easiest.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms Pinot</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16226</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Pinot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d go with Psyche up top, and sympathize with his renovations/tenant removal and flatter his idea of him being a stand-up guy...and then politely ask for your money. Don&#039;t do anything that your dude couldn&#039;t/wouldn&#039;t do, just being rational and female usually generates a whole lot more reaction than you&#039;d expect. (Take this from a woman who grew up around a mother who used her beauty to get what she wanted, all the time.Alot of the time, it&#039;s not even necessary and keeps those gender stereotypes alive and well!) No eyelash batting, no cooing over him, just imagine him as a friend and say...&quot;well, landlord, this whole situation sucks, because everyone is out and I liked living here. Now, I know you try to do the right thing, and we&#039;ve been out funds from the move, so is there any way you could...&quot; if he says no, then let him know it saddens you he&#039;s not living up to the stand up guy you  thought he was, that legally you&#039;re entitled to the funds, and send a registered letter, with codes and legal action threatened if needed. Not every time, but usually, I&#039;ve found that people react like good people if you call them on it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d go with Psyche up top, and sympathize with his renovations/tenant removal and flatter his idea of him being a stand-up guy&#8230;and then politely ask for your money. Don&#8217;t do anything that your dude couldn&#8217;t/wouldn&#8217;t do, just being rational and female usually generates a whole lot more reaction than you&#8217;d expect. (Take this from a woman who grew up around a mother who used her beauty to get what she wanted, all the time.Alot of the time, it&#8217;s not even necessary and keeps those gender stereotypes alive and well!) No eyelash batting, no cooing over him, just imagine him as a friend and say&#8230;&#8221;well, landlord, this whole situation sucks, because everyone is out and I liked living here. Now, I know you try to do the right thing, and we&#8217;ve been out funds from the move, so is there any way you could&#8230;&#8221; if he says no, then let him know it saddens you he&#8217;s not living up to the stand up guy you  thought he was, that legally you&#8217;re entitled to the funds, and send a registered letter, with codes and legal action threatened if needed. Not every time, but usually, I&#8217;ve found that people react like good people if you call them on it!</p>
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		<title>By: vtm</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16219</link>
		<dc:creator>vtm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ugh. Just want to amend the first part of my post: merely acting nice and friendly and human can invoke the resentment of asshole guys who read friendliness as some sort of promise for future sexual favors. I&#039;m certainly not blaming women for inspiring resentment or hostility when we don&#039;t &quot;put out&quot; on command. Just saying that being young and cute and female rarely generates free goods and services or actual power. It&#039;s not a power dynamic that&#039;s tipped to our benefit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh. Just want to amend the first part of my post: merely acting nice and friendly and human can invoke the resentment of asshole guys who read friendliness as some sort of promise for future sexual favors. I&#8217;m certainly not blaming women for inspiring resentment or hostility when we don&#8217;t &#8220;put out&#8221; on command. Just saying that being young and cute and female rarely generates free goods and services or actual power. It&#8217;s not a power dynamic that&#8217;s tipped to our benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: vtm</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16218</link>
		<dc:creator>vtm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If it was a matter of getting your landlord or super to do a simple repair, sure, flirt away. It might work for a while, until the guy in question realized you weren&#039;t gonna fuck him, then you&#039;d just have a more resentful and unhelpful landlord or super.

I think the people giving you the advice to be the one to work the landlord have misguided (and in this case) overly optimistic ideas about the myth of young women&#039;s &quot;power&quot; in this society. If merely batting your eyes and being young and cute was enough, those interns wouldn&#039;t have been screwing David Letterman, right? Feminine wiles isn&#039;t going to work. In my experience, using the much touted &quot;power of female sexuality&quot; doesn&#039;t actually gain a girl or woman much - unless there&#039;s something exchanged beyond flirting and eye-batting. Not to say &quot;don&#039;t flatter yourself&quot;, but don&#039;t flatter yourself - the neighborhood is filled with pretty young hipster women, and just being ingratiating eyecandy isn&#039;t enough to get someone to roll over and give you money. 

I say don&#039;t compromise your values on this one - partly because it&#039;s not gonna work anyway. And I call bullshit on the people suggesting that the landlord will react better to you asking for the money - sure, he might be more polite if you act flirtatious and accommodating and nonthreatening, and happier to see a young woman than deal with a man, but it doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s gonna pay up. I think the people suggesting this course of action see young women getting attention from men, but don&#039;t understand that this attention rarely translates into free goods and services - you may get a door opened for you, the guy at the bodega may flirt with you, and the landlord might smile and drool over you, but when was the last time a business owner gave you free stuff just because you&#039;re pretty?

Getting money from a NYC landlord is rough. I live in the city too - the laws are not as tenant-friendly as one would hope. Good luck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it was a matter of getting your landlord or super to do a simple repair, sure, flirt away. It might work for a while, until the guy in question realized you weren&#8217;t gonna fuck him, then you&#8217;d just have a more resentful and unhelpful landlord or super.</p>
<p>I think the people giving you the advice to be the one to work the landlord have misguided (and in this case) overly optimistic ideas about the myth of young women&#8217;s &#8220;power&#8221; in this society. If merely batting your eyes and being young and cute was enough, those interns wouldn&#8217;t have been screwing David Letterman, right? Feminine wiles isn&#8217;t going to work. In my experience, using the much touted &#8220;power of female sexuality&#8221; doesn&#8217;t actually gain a girl or woman much &#8211; unless there&#8217;s something exchanged beyond flirting and eye-batting. Not to say &#8220;don&#8217;t flatter yourself&#8221;, but don&#8217;t flatter yourself &#8211; the neighborhood is filled with pretty young hipster women, and just being ingratiating eyecandy isn&#8217;t enough to get someone to roll over and give you money. </p>
<p>I say don&#8217;t compromise your values on this one &#8211; partly because it&#8217;s not gonna work anyway. And I call bullshit on the people suggesting that the landlord will react better to you asking for the money &#8211; sure, he might be more polite if you act flirtatious and accommodating and nonthreatening, and happier to see a young woman than deal with a man, but it doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s gonna pay up. I think the people suggesting this course of action see young women getting attention from men, but don&#8217;t understand that this attention rarely translates into free goods and services &#8211; you may get a door opened for you, the guy at the bodega may flirt with you, and the landlord might smile and drool over you, but when was the last time a business owner gave you free stuff just because you&#8217;re pretty?</p>
<p>Getting money from a NYC landlord is rough. I live in the city too &#8211; the laws are not as tenant-friendly as one would hope. Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16207</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ditto pedimd--

We had a similar situation that-- after several polite phone calls asking for return of a deposit-- I handled w/ a nice, scary letter with &quot;Esq.&quot; at the bottom.  (Convenient perk of being an attorney, likely unnecessary.)

Basically I learned my rights for small claims court.  I told him he could return my deposit within 2 weeks of the letter or I&#039;d begin small claims court.  I found out I&#039;d be entitled to my deposit, plus three times my costs (including the cost of returning to another state to fight it.)  I estimated the total cost, and plain old cost-benefit analysis showed him paying up would be cheaper.

I always appeal to raw economics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto pedimd&#8211;</p>
<p>We had a similar situation that&#8211; after several polite phone calls asking for return of a deposit&#8211; I handled w/ a nice, scary letter with &#8220;Esq.&#8221; at the bottom.  (Convenient perk of being an attorney, likely unnecessary.)</p>
<p>Basically I learned my rights for small claims court.  I told him he could return my deposit within 2 weeks of the letter or I&#8217;d begin small claims court.  I found out I&#8217;d be entitled to my deposit, plus three times my costs (including the cost of returning to another state to fight it.)  I estimated the total cost, and plain old cost-benefit analysis showed him paying up would be cheaper.</p>
<p>I always appeal to raw economics.</p>
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		<title>By: Nadia</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2009/10/05/a-feminist-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16205</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=10669#comment-16205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I suppose I could fall back on feminine wiles, my tendency to want to beat the shit out of people who fall for them would probably not help the situation. Sooo, if I thought talking to him first might be useful, I&#039;d send my partner over rather than go myself because he&#039;s far more likely, and able, to do what Psyche suggests, i.e., flatter Slumlord&#039;s perception of himself as not being a bad person and generally commiserate with him over our shared bad luck. 

But really, I think it&#039;s best to skip straight to the pleasant but knowledgeable letter. It&#039;s likely he&#039;ll pay up rather than risk a court case and having to pay far more later. Good luck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I suppose I could fall back on feminine wiles, my tendency to want to beat the shit out of people who fall for them would probably not help the situation. Sooo, if I thought talking to him first might be useful, I&#8217;d send my partner over rather than go myself because he&#8217;s far more likely, and able, to do what Psyche suggests, i.e., flatter Slumlord&#8217;s perception of himself as not being a bad person and generally commiserate with him over our shared bad luck. </p>
<p>But really, I think it&#8217;s best to skip straight to the pleasant but knowledgeable letter. It&#8217;s likely he&#8217;ll pay up rather than risk a court case and having to pay far more later. Good luck.</p>
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