Harpy Seminar, Victorian style!
So yesterday afternoon there was quite a lively discussion amongst some of the Harpies about our favorite men from ye olde literature, inspired by an article in the Telegraph that Pilgrim Soul sent us. Entitled “Romantic Heroes: Here’s to You, Mr. Rochester,” and written by popular novelist Penny Vincenzi, the article trumpets the news that a recent poll by romance publisher Mills & Boon–known as Harlequin in the US and Canada–crowned Jane Eyre’s Mr. Rochester the sexiest romantic character in literature, beating out Mr. Darcy, Rhett Butler and Heathcliff. Pilgrim Soul, PhDork and I had some strong opinions about this. Join us as our bosoms heave, both with indignation, and with barely suppressed passion for our Regency/Victorian literary loves.
PilgrimSoul: How creepy is it that everybody find Mr. Rochester so romantic? HE LOCKED HIS WIFE IN AN ATTIC.
BeckySharper: I always thought that Mr. Rochester was creepy too! And Heathcliff was just evil and cruel. The only reason the book didn’t totally fall apart was that Cathy was pretty dreadful herself and you kind of got the sense they deserved each other. But what is it with these women who think mean, brutal, domineering men are sexy?
PhDork: Hopefully all the plain girls out there will find morally-reformed blind men to marry them. After their crazy first wives burn to death, of course. No bigamy; that would be offensive.
Uh-oh, if you open the door to Mr. Rochester being less-than-perfect, than someone (me) is going to come in and point out how Mr. Darcy is a prat, too.
BeckySharper: LEAVE MR DARCY ALOOOOONE! That was the only one at the top of the list who made sense to me. (Especially as portrayed in a wet shirt by Colin Firth. You’re welcome.)
Darcy may have been a bit of a prat, but at least he never locked a mentally ill woman in an attic. Or had an illegitimate child by a French lady who then died under mysterious circumstances (come on, we all know little Adele was not just Rochester’s “ward”).
PilgrimSoul: Personally I like to stick with Colonel Brandon. Particularly as played by my future husband Alan Rickman.
BeckySharper: I love Colonel Brandon. And Alan Rickman was PERFECT. Although have you read Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters, where Colonel Brandon has tentacles coming out of his face? (Check out the awesome promo video of S & S & SM.)
PilgrimSoul: Alan Rickman would never have anything so vulgar coming out of his face.
PhDork: Ooh, PSoul likes damaged goods! And old dudes!
PilgrimSoul: Damaged goods? Maybe. But at least he doesn’t try to strongarm Marianne into marrying him.
BeckySharper: And he has a lovely home and likes to save women in distress, just like Mr. Darcy. So Dorky, since your snarking on our literary dreamboats, who’s yours?
PhDork: If If we’re talking S & S: Edward Ferrars.
But in general, I wouldn’t look to Victorian/Regency lit for a dude. Although John Harmon from Our Mutual Friend is an admirable fellow.
BeckySharper: Yes, John Harmon is acceptable, if you’re looking for a nice guy with a moral compass instead of a rogue.
PhDork: I’ve always found men with moral compasses appealing. None of that “bad boy” stuff for me. Give me your nerds, your dorks, your humble menz yearning to get laid.
BeckySharper: Well, you’ll find ‘em in Dickens. Those Dickens heros are so EARNEST. Except for Pip. I loved Great Expectations, but I thought Pip was douchebag.
PilgrimSoul: Also Daniel Deronda. “Do I spy a drowned Jewess!”
BeckySharper: That was such a lousy book. I never liked any of George Eliot’s novels much (at least, the ones I read). I think that makes me a bad feminist. But the men in her books were pretty awful. My lit professor once said of Stephen Guest–the dudely dude in Mill on the Floss–that he might as well have been walking around wearing a nametag reading ‘Stephen Guest, Studmuffin” because he was such a crude rendering of an alpha male.
That said, I know legions of lady readers who love Will Ladislaw from Middlemarch.
PilgrimSoul: I love Middlemarch! Can’t get it up for any of her other novels.
PhDork: Forgive me sisters, for I have sinned: I’ve never read Middlemarch.
BeckySharper: ::gasps:: ::clutches pearls::
It was the best of the bunch, for sure. Although I think I read it after I’d just plowed through the Complete Misogynist Works of Thomas Hardy, so after wife-selling (Mayor of Casterbridge) and slut-shaming of rape victims (Tess of the D’Urbervilles) Middlemarch seemed like a huge relief. And Will Ladislaw definitely has that earnest, penniless young scholar vibe that PhDork would love.
So what do you think, gentle readers? Mr. Rochester–hot or not? How about Heathcliff? Willoughby? Mr. Darcy? Which literary hearthrob loosens your corset?
I’m not sure if he really counts as being in the time period, but my literary heart will always belong to Gilbert Blythe (the real one, not the one from the Kevin Sullivan travesties). Kind, determined, generous, he always loved Anne for her mind and her spirit- and he always encouraged her ambition. The hotness of Gilbert, obviously, is from the later books (from Anne of the Island, by far my favourite in the series, onward). His pursuit of, and love for, Anne in AOTI is just beautiful, and the books in which they are married show a lovely partnership between the two of them. Sure, Darcy is sexier, but to me, Gilbert Blythe is the hottest literary man around.
The Rochester thing reminds me of that Kate Beaton comic about the Bronte sisters and their Byronic heroes. Poor Anne, always left out: http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=202
Adam Bede wasn’t terrible, as far as Eliot heroes go, if I remember correctly. But I’m all about Austen’s Captain Wentworth. Man of action, likes music, good and loyal friend, great letter writer.
Oh god. So one of my classes this semester? “Major British Novelists.”
I spent part of a class yelling at people about how Rochester is a CREEP who LOCKS HIS WIFE IN THE ATTIC. CREEPY THIRD FLOOR HIDDEN ROOM, IF WE’RE GOING TO BE ACCURATE. It was great. Same for Heathcliff- this isn’t romantic love, this is HORRIYING.
My love for Darcy knows no bounds though, probably because when Elizabeth gives him the smackdown after his first proposal he actually does the right thing and leaves her alone for a while.
I’m currently in the middle of Our Mutual Friend, and so far I like John Harmon, but at the end of Volume 2, he’s only done the I’m-in-love-with-her-but-not-going-to-reveal-myself shtick. So we’ll see at the end. And Mill on the Floss is coming up on our reading list, maybe after Dickens? I’m basically spending a semester on Regency/Victorian hot fictional men, apparently.
And if I may toss out another one where I think it’s kind of weird- Knightley, in Emma. He’s twice her age, has known her since she was a little girl, and what, basically seems to have groomed her into the woman he marries? And it just takes her a long time to realize that they are MEANT TO BE.
I thought Heathcliff was so ~*romantic*~ when I first read Wuthering Heights. In my defense, I was nine.
My more sustaining literary crush, other than anyone played in a film by Alan Rickman, is probably Dean Priest, from Montgomery’s Emily books. I was really deeply disappointed when Emily eventually broke off the engagement, even though I knew it was going to happen. Nothing against Teddy Kent, really, but Dean was far more interesting.
@collegbookworm: Yeah, I was always weirded out by Knightley. There’s a line where he says he noticed her bright eyes and cleverness when she was 12. It seemed a bit skeevy to me, too..
@ratinski: Really?? Dean Priest? That is very interesting. Have you read any of the literary criticism on LMM’s Emily books and Emily’s relationships with Dean and Teddy? There’s been some good stuff written. Dean is definitely the most fascinating male character LMM ever wrote.
@BeckSharper – have you read the Emily books? Dean Priest is even worse. He was her father’s older college friend. He meets Emily when she is 12 and on their very first meeting murmurs “I think I’ll wait for you.” Yeesh.
@Eirinn22 – I am re-reading the Anne series right now (I’m up to Anne of Avonlea) and I totally agree with you. Gilbert Blythe is so dreamy!
I forgot about Knightley. All that “ward” stuff…I think that’s why I love Bleak House–Esther Summerson is the ward, but not the wife, of Jarndyce. Although he kinda tricks her into thinking they’ll marry. Which is gross. Okay, never mind.
But basically: boo on any character that would be played by Dominic Cooper (the dude is ubiquitous!) in a BBC adaptation.
Also, did anyone read “Katie John and Heathcliff”? I found that pre-WH, and was like: who IS this guy? Tall, dark, and asshole.
@bluenose sailor: I haven’t actually read any of the criticism – I should pick some of it up, as the Emily books were my favorites. I vaguely recollect the “I think I’ll wait for you” statement when Emily was twelve, and it is…creepy, but for some reason it didn’t kill my crush.
As a teenager I loved all things Bronte (and despised all things Austen) and that included all the sexy sexy CREEPY sexy men. What can I say? I wanted to save them?
But has no one mentioned Laurie from Little Women? HELLO?
Ooh, I totally forgot about the Freudianly named Dean Priest! Yes that was weird, although so was Emily and Teddy’s psychic connection! (didn’t she stop him from boarding the Titanic? Or was it the Lusitania?)
I’m definitely co-signing on the Gilbert Blythe love, though!
@bluenose sailor: Persuasion is, by far, my favorite Austen novel, mostly due to Captain Wentworth. Especially as portrayed by Ciarán Hinds in the 1995 BBC film. So honorable and dreamy.
Yes, Captain Wentworth for the win. Also Colonel Brandon and possibly Gabriel Oak from “Far from the Madding Crowd,” who is also the only appealing male character in a Hardy novel (also one of the only Hardy books that isn’t completely depressing — I’M LOOKING AT YOU, JUDE).
I love Middlemarch but didn’t get the Will Ladislaw thing until I saw the miniseries where he was played by Rufus Seweel. Um, yes.
That would be “Sewell.” I can spell, I swear.
@BeckySharper: Yes, I think it was supposed to be the Titanic (WW1 doesn’t really happen in the Emily books, eh?). That psychic connection thing was sort of out of character from LMM’s other work, but since the Emily novels often resemble LMM’s ode to Jane Eyre, I guess it works.
@ratinski: Oh, I totally get the Dean Priest crush. He’s bitter and worldly and sort of twisted but also fascinating and devoted and lonely. Pretty compelling stuff.
I have to defend Mr. Rochester! For the time period, keeping his (violent) wife under full-time care instead of abandoning her to an asylum or divorcing her was actually fairly progressive, in my opinion. He didn’t make her insane, and he risked his life to save her after she set his house on fire! Have you guys seen this adaptation of Jane Eyre: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780362/ (it’s the one the picture in the article is from)? I wouldn’t call it definitive, but it is by far my favorite.
Thirds to Captain Wentworth, and I’ll also add Phillip Ammon from “Girl of the Limberlost” and Landon Parke-Laine from the Thursday Next series.
“You pierce my soul.”
That is all.
Also, Anne Bronte’s novel, The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, has a very worthy hero, Gilbert Markham, who patiently woos a woman fleeing an abusive husband. It’s one of the few Victorian novels that addresses d.v. and women’s lack of legal rights completely head-on. A good contrast to Charlotte and Emily’s glorification of dark, violent, brooding men.
And in the BBC version, Mr. Markham is played by the delicious Toby Stephens.
I don’t know what this says about me, but Rochester dressing up like a gypsy to spy on JE was more of a turn-off than the woman in the attic.
@BeckySharper: That Kate Beaton link I shared in my first comment is about precisely that topic!
Funny, too – Toby Stephens plays Mr. Rochester in the miniseries that mkp-hearts-nyc linked to.
I’m with MKP, here. Rochester may not have loved Bertha Mason, but at least he didn’t put her in Bedlam hospital, where the inmates were displayed for rich people’s entertainment. Heck, conditions in mental hospitals were appalling until reforms last century!
And as for little Adele, she’s likely not his, but he takes care of her anyway.
I admit he is deeply flawed, and I am annoyed that Jane only gets him after he’s been horribly maimed, but Rochester will always have a place in my heart.
As for Darcy, wet shirt scene notwithstanding, I always though Firth played him in a far more priggish and severe way than in the book. In the book, he smiles more, and actually seems playful, at least in the chapter where he and Lizzie meet at his evil aunt’s house.
Also — Toby Stephens as Rochester — mmmmmmmm.
I would also add John Thornton from Elizabeth Gaskell’s North and South. While they made him a little more brutish initally in the miniseries versus the book, he’s still quite an upstanding fellow. And in said miniseries, Richard Armitage is both very nice to look at, but also delivers a heartbreakingly good performance.
bluebears, I totally agree. I’m still disappointed Jo turned Laurie down and ended up marrying the German professor. Not that the latter wasn’t perfectly nice, Laurie was just so much more fun!
bluebears and Kristine, I just have to disagree with you! I was surprised but not displeased to find that Jo turned down Laurie (besides, I love the bits where he’s wooing Amy). I would so totally go for Professor Behr. Of course, I’ve always identified with Jo the most.
I haven’t actually read most of these books, unfortunately… I read the first twelve chapters of Emma and would have thrown it across the room except the copy belonged to the hostel, not to me. But I will echo the Alan Rickman love!
“Give me your nerds, your dorks, your humble menz yearning to get laid.”
I laughed out loud at that one (mostly because I identify with it).
My knowledge of Victorian lit is pretty woeful, esp. for a literature major (in my defense, I was very much specialized in German and French…). But I do join in the Mr Darcy love, I think the fact that he is flawed but tries to improve is one of the biggest parts of his appeal.
Heathcliff creeps me out, and it’s been a while since I read Jane Eyre (it’s near the top of my ‘to-re-read list’) but I remember being skeeved out by Rochester’s secret-ridden life as well.
@shinyobjects: Holiday season’s coming up:
http://www.cafepress.com/pemstore.73222381
Curse work-it kept me from this thread!
I like Daniel Deronda better than anyone in “Mill on the Floss”. I know Jude is a sad character but I love him anyhow. Dickens writes a mean story but I can’t say I’ve found anyone especially hot. I like the guy in Trollope’s Barchester series (I forget who it is now…) who finds the scoundrel who led his sister on and thrashed him with a specially-purchased riding whip on a very public London street.
Holmes. Sirius Black. Not Snape.
You ladies are making me dig out my beloved BBC videos tonight! Mmmmm….
I’m with the Darcy crew, and I agree that Rochester is creepy, even if relatively progressive for the time in terms of crazy-wife care (except for the whole not-mentioning-to-my-young-governess-love-that-I’m-married thing). And I read Middlemarch senior year of college, right in the midst of my what-the-hell-will-I-do-with-my-life/English-major-and-dance-minor crisis, so loved that, too. Not a fan of Will, though. Too wimpy.
On another topic, I love, love this series of Retro Pleasures postings.
How has nobody mentioned Henry Tilney from Northanger Abbey?! Henry Tilney, who said, “In every power, of which taste is the foundation, excellence is pretty fairly divided between the sexes”? And “The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid”? Henry Tilney, who is kind, funny, smart, and unfailingly gracious? He is by FAR the best of Austen’s heroes!
I agree with elizabeth, too — John Thornton is lovely.
Oh, sorry, did I leave the era? That may be why no one mentioned any contemporary characters except me. But I’m hard-pressed to come up with any more, I must say.
Darcy is incomparable. I myself liked the Olivier version best.
@Rachel – I was JUST about to mention Henry Tilney. Northanger Abbey is no S&S or P&P, but it’s a hilarious take-down of the Gothic novel, and Henry is swoon-worthy.
YES! Finally someone mentions Henry Tilney!!! He is the only Austen hero who doesn’t have anything wrong with him. He’s so funny and sweet. (And reminds me of my boyfriend. *blush*)
“You pierce my soul” is great and everything, but I can’t get past how Captain Wentworth ignored Anne then made everyone think he was in love with one of the Musgrove girls. Bad form.
@April: Don’t be too hard on Wentworth! He wasn’t pretending to be in love with the Musgrove girls, he was actually trying to attach himself to them. Not less misguided, but less dishonest. And he only ignored Anne b/c his pride was hurt. He started to soften pretty quickly – he saved her from a rabid toddler for goodness sake. That’s devotion.
I really have nothing bad to say about Henry Tilney. He owns a Newfoundland dog and his parlour has floor to ceiling windows overlooking his garden. Of course, he is also the clergyman who never clergies – such a slacker! But it’s really the lack of sailing that puts me in the Wentworth camp – not that my name gives it away or anything, ha.
Yeah, so many of them are awful, especially Rochester and Heathcliff… but Knightly! He was old but awesome!
Has anyone else read The Wide Sargasso Sea? If you haven’t, I suggest it, but meanwhile will give you a spoiler –
it suggests that ”Bertha” wasn’t really CRAZY, she just grew up *le gasp* in another culture. A non-Edwardian culture! Which, in Edwardian culture, made her crazy.
And that she liked sex! Which was the same as being crazy.
Oh, and that maybe she was not entirely white (I don’t remember if Jean Rhys says this outright, but I believe it is implied; I know Bertha was described as ”dark [haired]” in JE). Which, I don’t think I need to elaborate.
And all of that ”being thought of as crazy” and ”being treated as crazy” and ”being locked in the third-story secret room while also being vaguely aware that your abusive husband was planning to bang the governess of the child he had purchased from Martinique” … ultimately drove her quite crazy.
Ruh-roh Mr Rochester! No-no with the racism AND the sexism, even if you did have to grow up in Edwardian England!
Oh, Alan Rickman as Colonel Brandon is just about the smoothest thing on film. Pierce shmierce. “The air … is full of spices.” Hello.
@ratinski: Dean Priest?? He lies to Emily about her book and her writing so that she’ll stay with him! That’s totally obsessive/controlling behavior! Oh, how I hated him for that.
I mean, yes, he was more interesting than Teddy, but Jesus, who wasn’t? Ilse and Perry were the best romantic couple from that series.
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