Comments on: From the Women Can’t Win Files

By: Spark

Spark — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:21:33 +0000

It’s not just about marginalizing women comedy writers–it’s about marginalizing women in the audience. The Daily Show writing staff is 100% male, I believe. There may be one woman. As a viewer, I can sense that the jokes are written by men, and over time, it’s really turned me off. I used to watch every day. Now I watch occasionally.

By: Dirty Laundry

Dirty Laundry — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:00:54 +0000

@iiii: but what Pilgram is critiquing is how that turns a business into a toxic work environment for women regardless if the woman who is sleeping with her boss is getting a promotion or not.

By: iiii

iiii — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:08:52 +0000

BeckySharper – I was actually responding to Dirty Laundry & should have said so.

My feeling is that no one should be sleeping with someone they have the power to hire, fire, or promote. As soon as bosses start with that, *all* personnel decisions become suspect.

It’s got little to do with sexual morality (not my business, not my problem) and everything to do with maintaining a productive workplace.

By: BeckySharper

BeckySharper — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:31:40 +0000

@iiii: If someone is only getting the advancement because of the sexual relationship, that’s unethical. I have no problem condemning people who blatantly use sex or sexual relationships to give them an advantage over their co-workers. (I have seen young men do this as well in the female-dominated industry where I work).

Still, I agree with you that it’s not always a blatant quid-pro-quo, especially if–as you put it–”she would have hit that anyway.”

The whole idea of separate promotion ladders is completely wrong, but it should be pointed out that once the relationships start happening, it is tricky for a CEO or HR to start weighing and evaluating the individual relationships and workplaces for signs of advantages or disadvantages that result.

By: iiii

iiii — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:18:30 +0000

No, no – I will not condemn a woman for being a self-interested rational actor. I will not condemn a woman for valuing her own advancement and security over the bonds of sisterhood, especially if she would have hit that anyway.

But I will condemn the head of a corporation who creates separate promotion ladders for men, for women who don’t sleep with their male coworkers, and for women who do sleep with their male coworkers.

By: BeckySharper

BeckySharper — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:18:04 +0000

@DirtyLaundry. Tend to agree with Av0gadro, although not all workplace relationships between bosses and employees are because the woman felt she couldn’t say no. Men and women may be genuinely attracted to each other and if a relationship develops and that leads to advantages or benefits in the workplace not many people–male or female–are going to turn down those benefits.

Should they turn them down? Yes, ethically speaking. But in a hyper-competitive industry like television, people often take whatever advantage they can get and run with it.

By: Av0gadro

Av0gadro — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:10:31 +0000

I’m not so sure, Dirty Laundry. The first couple of women, yeah, but after it’s happened a couple of times, and the office environment has turned toxic, there can be a lot of unspoken (and some spoken) pressure. Some of those women might not have felt able to say no, might have felt like they’d be killing their careers if they said no. They were adults, but they choice to stand up for what’s right instead of doing what benefits them personally isn’t always so easy.

By: Dirty Laundry

Dirty Laundry — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:02:48 +0000

I agree with everything you said, but why are we not calling out the women who are actively deciding to sleep with their bosses?
It seems too simple to just blame the menz, because women are powerless and know not what they do.

By: Preeti

Preeti — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:29:50 +0000

Your last line hit the nail on the freakin’ head!

By: JessMess

JessMess — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:28:07 +0000

Burn. I love it.