I’ve never liked the store Forever 21. The cheesy, youth-glorifying name grates on me: OMG, don’t get oooold! Stay 21 and sexxxy forever! Even worse, Forever 21 has an atrocious record of garment worker exploitation and creates cheap, unsustainably manufactured clothing that is distinctly unfriendly to the environment.
But if that’s not enough reason for you to avoid Forever 21 during your next mall crawl, well, check out this e-mail I received from reader Pam C.:
In case anyone needed any more reason to NOT stop at Forever 21, I found this waiting for me on the mirror of the dressing room. And there were other slogans just like this one in the rest of the fitting rooms. I wanted to cry. (Photo after the jump)
I can’t rotate the picture in WordPress, but if you look, you’ll see the words MAJOR SURGERY printed on the dressing room mirror right below Pam’s lovely legs.
I immediately wrote back: WTF??
Pam said:
I know, right? I pretty much lost my shit in the middle of the dressing room. The location was the Pentagon City Mall, right outside DC. Another mirror I saw said DEFINITELY A NO. This mall is HUGE, it has four floors of shops and high schools are known to bus in tons of students for field trips. Completely unacceptable. Their website is Forever21.com and they had some chatter on the feminist blogs not too long ago over launching their Plus Size line (aside from the religious verses printed on the bottom of their shopping bags). The clothes are really cheap and they jump on every trend as they come, so it is the perfect lure to young girls with limited funds that want to dress the way they are being told to look. It just kills me.
It kills me too. This store is in my hometown–in fact, I bought my prom dress at Pentagon City–and the mall is a big shopping destination for people from all over DC and Northern Virginia. I haven’t been to a Forever 21 in New York to see if they have the same negative, underminer-y slogans printed on their mirrors yet. If any of y’all have seen this at a Forever 21 where you live, let me know.
The thing I find most striking about this story, though, isn’t that Forever 21 is pushing a snarky, body-negative message onto young women; that is, after all, a top priority of Big Fashion, and Forever 21 has always been totally on board with it. What shocks me is that telling women outright that they look like crap is a massive marketing FAIL. Negging may (allegedly) work for douchebags in bars, but when it comes to shopping, woman are not likely to buy a dress if you’re subliminally–or in this case, forthrightly–sending the message that they look bad wearing it. I know that Forever 21 moves a lot of clothes because they sell them cheap, but even so, I don’t think women–particularly young women of limited income–are going to spend money on clothes they think look bad on them. So why would you tell them that in the dressing room?
If any of you out there are marketing gurus and can explain why undermining your customers like this is good for sales, I’d love to hear it. In the meantime, if you’re inclined to shop at Forever 21, I think you should reconsider.
The mirror thing leaves me speechless. They called their plus-size line Faith 21. ugggh
uuuuuuuuuuuuuug. I place this in the hall of shame, right along with PETA’s “save the whales.” assholes.
Honestly, I’ve never gone into this store bc the name alone skeeves me out…Forever 21?? I’m sorry I’m in my 30s so clearly you’re not interested in me. UGH. I’ve always assumed nothing would fit me since the name implies their clothes are designed for teenagers/early 20s. Now, I KNOW I won’t go in. Double UGH.
That makes absolutely no sense.
bizarre. I actually do shop in that store from time to time, because they have really cheap basics like tank tops etc and even jeans (I refuse to spend more than 50.00 on jeans so this leaves me with a lot of teenager stores as options)However I hardly ever try anything on in the store so I can’t speak to their changing rooms.
Is it possible that the mirror-sayings are not, um, store-approved? That is, that someone (someones?) snuck into the store and applied decals to the mirrors? Which would make them the body policing fairies, I guess.
Yes, aside from the absolutely HORRIBLE messages these mirrors are sending…why oh why would Forever 21 think this was a good idea marketing-wise? It makes no sense! They should print phrases on their mirrors like “You look great!” and “Stunning!” That’s what would get their clothes to sell. Not insulting their customers and saying basically that their clothes look hideous on them. What advertising genius came up with this?
I can only echo, WTF? Actually, I’ll take the time to write it out. What.the.fuck?
Cause women really need more negative influence, especially when they’re spending money??!?
I wonder if they’re selling more or fewer clothes since those gems went up?
Interesting theory, maisnon. But if it were adbusting, then I’d think they’d say things like “100% Sweatshop Labor!” or “Human Rights Abuses Look FABulous on you, Darling!”
But these “Hey there, Fatty, lookin’ fat there” messages are just baffling. Forever 21: our clothes are unflattering and of poor quality! (We luv Jesus!)
@PhDork: Now you’re just giving me ideas…
I wouldn’t have been shopping there in the first place if it hadn’t been for a last minute wedding emergency, and when I got home to tell the BF what I’d seen his reaction was to tell me I must be misunderstanding their message. Um…ok. So now I’m fat and stupid? kthanksbye.
I have no idea why they were up there. I’ve been to other stores (Lucy, for example) that have inspiring messages on their mirrors. And these were on the bottom of the mirror, not at all your usual eye line. Regardless of what the thinking behind it is, I’m still pretty cheesed.
Eek! That’s the mall I go to when I absolutely have to go to the mall!
I don’t even get “Major Surgery.” Like – you need major surgery???
OMG, I can’t even believe that. As everyone else has said, beyond the shocking/saddening factor that anyone would put these kinds of ads in a dressing room – how is it going to possibly boost, or even just not depress, sales?
SarahMC, I read “Major Surgery” as advocating something like gastric bypass or lapbanding. Or maybe plastic surgery, though that’s not usually considered “major”.
Given that blatant sexism is sadly not an obstacle to stores making money, why would they pick a blatantly sexist line that encouraged their customers to believe they looked awful in their clothes?
Is it true that Forever 21 (clothing for the discerning vampire?) makes stuff that falls apart after a few wearings?
Yeah, Louie, Forever 21 is a classic example of getting what you pay for: cheap fabric and shoddy worksmanship. But by the time that polyester tunic top falls apart in the wash, they will have moved on to something else equally trendy and disposable. That’s how they ensure repeat customers.
Ladies – the slogans reference their clothes. ; )
I’m wondering if they possibly have a referring arrangement to specialists that perform “major surgery” so that their clients stay “forever 21″.
If I lived near you, I’d go into the store, use that specific dressing room, and ask lots of questions (in a non-threatening way). Then ask my friends to see what their responses from the store workers were.
BTW, what an aweful name for a store, and what an aweful aweful sticker in the dessing room.
Ohmigod, that little emoticon makes it *all* better! We just didn’t get the joke, right? Also, I just love being addressed as a lady and I’m sure y’all do too.
Of course, obviously “major surgery” is referring to the clothes’ need to undergo surgery. Because clothes undergo surgery all the time.
Huh? :S (since you apparently <3 emoticons)
Love the title of your post! Perfect.
Ugh, how disappointing. This must be kind of new, because I was in that very store early September-ish (it’s the only one in the area that carries the “Love 21″ line, which can be sort of cute) and I didn’t see any of that. How on earth did they think this was a good idea?!
wow, sybann…? “Ladies”…? Really? “It’s just the clothes, ladies! Relax! Calm down! Here are some smelling salts for ye hysterical bitches…”
That aside, I’m wondering if their intent, (and I’m having to reach hard to figure out why anyone would think this is a good marketing move,) was to make the woman presently trying on the clothes chuckle, thinking of all the OTHER women who would see that message. Because, I mean, obviously the person who had this idea is really out of touch if (s)he thought that it is more common for women to have self-esteem than not have it, but assuming that most women think that *they* are fine, and it’s those other women who are ugly, then I guess they thought it would amuse the women at the thought of ugly women coming up in there and trying on the clothes? Maybe they meant for the woman to read into the messages, “They don’t mean ME. They mean those ugly bitches over there.” In any case, though, it was a bad move, and useless, too…I mean if someone is already in your dressing room, they are thinking about buying something…so why a plain mirror with nothing wouldn’t be better, I can’t say.
Their clothing sucks rocks. Clear enough?
Yes, they are reprehensible. Don’t shop there.
…and next time I’ll make sure to let you KNOW (/sarcasm) that I’m kidding.
Ugh. The last time I went to Forever 21 was with my sister. She was 16, size 0, and loves that store because it’s both ‘trendy’ and ‘inexpensive.’ I was 24 and size 12. Yeah, our size difference is bigger than our age difference. I remember hanging onto a pair of shoes that I had every intention of buying, then going into the dressing room to try on a “large” tank top, which was of course too small for me (and they were junior’s sizes anyway so i should have known better). I came out of the dressing room and asked one of the sales girls if she had, “anything larger than a large,” and she just looked at me blankly and finally replied: “…larger than a large? No. Our LARGE is our large.” It’s as if she had no idea anyone could be bigger than a junior’s large without needing a muumuu.
I decided against getting the shoes. Clearly that store doesn’t want my money.
Well, it doesn’t make much sense to write “definitely a no” on a mirror in a store…because that implies to me that that clothing item looks bad on you and it’s a no, don’t get it. So what I would think if I saw those things on the mirrors is that someone other than the store put them there. As in, someone who wanted to sabotage the store by making the women trying on clothes not buy them. I shop at forever 21 in san francisco, the last time I was there was the week before last, and nothing was written on the mirrors at all. Maybe you should ask the manager of the store what’s up with the messages? I dunno, just sounds like some sort of prank. I agree, their store is named badly. When I first saw that store, I felt weird shopping there since I was older than 21. why focus on an age? But the clothes are cheap, and pretty trendy, so if I want to buy something that may go out of style, I go there, because I don’t want to spend a lot.
Cute clothes and accessories for cheap will always beat the obvious evils Forever21 has to offer. I love the store and their cheap knock offs.
I live in Mpls and haven’t seen these mirror decals, maybe it’s a store owner’s decision. Regardless, I highly doubt snarky comments will cause a teen to have a major body issue meltdown. Kids are media saavy, aware and can tell when something is BS, give them some credit!
Another example of cynical “advertising”. Foverrerrer Twangtee Ome spends a few hundred bucks on decals and now they’re getting thousands of dollars of free advertising. You may think that it’s innefectivr advertising, but I bet Formeber Tangty Won’s advertising
firm has evidence to the contrary. Many companies are jumping on this type of advertising, as does PATE. EPTA spends a couple thousand on a billboard and then get their name in hundreds of blogs/online news-sources they otherwise never would’ve been.
Is this an experiment (an art project, performance art, psych study – even though there are no consent forms – of some kind? It’s too absurd to think that Forever 21 thinks this is a good business strategy. Or, maybe I am being too generous.
“Regardless, I highly doubt snarky comments will cause a teen to have a major body issue meltdown. Kids are media saavy, aware and can tell when something is BS, give them some credit!” -AdaKatarina
Woah, that’s a bold statement. Since when are kids media savvy? I know very few **twenty-year olds** that are very media savvy at all – aside from those femmes and gents that have taken a plethora of gender/women studies courses at post-secondary educational institutions.
The whole point of critiquing these absurdities is not to challenge them one by one, but to look at them at a WHOLE and look at how they’ve affected the minds of people of ALL ages…but especially the young ones who can’t get away from social norms until they’ve rid their minds of a lot of crazy brainwashing capitalist bullshit. OBVI.
Um, I’m really surprised no one actually bothered to call the store’s headquarters. I told them about the sticker, and they said it was certainly not company approved. I told them to message this blog.
Better research?
Um, Liz, a reader saw the stickers, sent me a photo, told us which store it was. There’s no need for “research” when you have an eyewitness account and a photo.
Calling Forever 21 is not research–it’s merely offering them a chance to explain what Pam saw (and photographed). Regardless of whether those stickers are at just the Pentagon City store or not, Forever 21 is responsible for what’s displayed in their store. And what’s displayed there is fucked up.
I find it strange that you appear less upset over the negative body-snarking than you are over the fact that I didn’t call to ask Forever 21 to ask them if they could please enlighten me about the negative bodysnarking.
@Nathan – Um…okay, I am just too curious. Are you intentionally misspelling names because you don’t want to get sued or something? What…what exactly is the goal there?
@Liz – I’ve shopped in stores like this, they have employees in and out of the dressing rooms all the time — to unlock the doors, collect garments, make sure people aren’t taking pictures in the clothes, etc. There’s no way one of those things could be up for more than five minutes without an employee knowing about it. Regardless of whether or not the stickers came from corporate, it is extremely implausible that no employees or managers were aware of them and either put them there in the first place or allowed them to stay.
AdaK, I’m with KaterineV on the rarity of media-savvy young people. I teach stuff on reading media critically, and I am consistently shocked (although I shouldn’t be anymore) at how un-critical they are. Even when asked pointed questions about why they choose X over Y, they can’t easily articulate much beyond “because it’s cool” or “the ads are funny.” And yet they all claim to be unaffected by advertising. This is not to say that they’re stupid, not in the least, but they’re still young, marketers are doing their damnedest to shut off critical thinking, and nobody has taught them skepticism.
And I know from papers I collected from a class today that nearly all of my female students (F21′s prime market) are concerned about their weight/body shape. F21′s stuff is just another brick in the wall of woman-hating shite.
baraqiel-
the reason I misspell organizations whose cynical advertising tactics I don’t like is to beat them at their own game. In today’s postpostmodern marketplace cutting edge ad companies are shooting for Googlejuice and “impressions” much more than actual knowledge of products/services.
Although, lawsuits are another effective advertising game. Think of the no-name companies that have sued Nerntendo or Aoopel Computers? Get your name attached to a winner and you get some Googlejuice.
Well, that’s a little tinfoil hat-y, but I can respect the goal. But…you do understand that by doing what you’re doing, you’re creating a very strong impression in my and I assume other readers’ minds about Apple, Nintendo and PETA?
Also, wouldn’t Google count as one of those companies that is looking for…its own juice?
Yeah, I’m aware of how ineffective/counterproductive it is to discuss cynical po-po-mo advertising tactics, but shit, what are we supposed to do?
I mean, I’m a straight identified 32 year old dude, so I don’t need to start boycottng the aforementioned clothing company, but it just drives me crazy that discussing ad campaigns we disagree with just helps out the ad/pr firms in question, and of course, their clients.
And as for Google, resistance is futile… They know everyhing they want, and usually before you do.
I thought it was really important to recognize that this ISN’T a new method of advertisement supported by the entire chain. One store is obviously responsible and should be penalized, but by reading this article and believing that all of the F21 stores endorsed this “advertising”, it misled me.
“Forever 21 is pushing a snarky, body-negative message onto young women; that is, after all, a top priority of Big Fashion, and Forever 21 has always been totally on board with it. What shocks me is that telling women outright that they look like crap is a massive marketing FAIL.”
It’s just one store store, and the above quote implies that the whole chain supports it – I went to my local F21 and looked at the dressing room mirrors, just to be sure [I understand the chain is supposed to be blamed for anything one individual store does - THAT'S why the person representing the chain was shocked when I described the above situation - they assume blame for all issues, but again, they don't endorse it - there's a pretty significant difference].
Granted, it’s HORRIBLE for one store to do this and important that someone sent this to the blog, but if someone had called up to complain to the store immediately and asked if this was a company-accepted practice, I think this would have clarified a lot.
And this: “I find it strange that you appear less upset over the negative body-snarking than you are over the fact that I didn’t call to ask Forever 21 to ask them if they could please enlighten me about the negative bodysnarking.”
was a bit presumptuous. OF COURSE I am offended, that’s why I was INCREDIBLY upset and complained.
@Liz:
Forever 21 is pushing a snarky, body-negative message onto young women; that is, after all, a top priority of Big Fashion, and Forever 21 has always been totally on board with it.
I believed this before I even wrote this post. Their ad campaigns, their name, the religious messages printed on their bags…there’s no doubt in my mind that Forever 21 is a woman-unfriendly store. The fact that a Forever 21 store has negative, snarky messages in its dressing rooms aimed at its young female customers is only further proof. That’s my opinion, and I phrased it as such.
I was taking issue with your comment about “Better research,” as though credible eyewitness accounts and photographs don’t count–but hearing spin from Forever 21′s corporate headquarters does. It’s a typical anti-whistleblower attitude, and it sounded to me like you were using it to try to discredit what Pam saw and what I wrote.
Since you said that you had alerted Forever 21 to the post, I’ll be curious to see if I hear any response from them.
I certainly wasn’t trying to discredit what the woman mentioned submitted to this blog, I just wanted to emphasize that corporate didn’t endorse the message, which I believe is important. If the entire chain believed this style of ads were okay, I would have a much different interpretation of the situation.
I certainly hope you do get some word back and I will judge the chain by how they respond/don’t respond to this issue.
I have never shopped there but everything I have read about them makes me a bit skeptical. The only thing that bothers me about this post is that a lot of people are citing the use of religious messages on their bags as an example of how they undermine women. Sorry, but I don’t get the connection. Based on the type of clothes they sell (itty bitty skirts,e etc), the message the give, and their human rights abuses, I think it is safe to say that they have probably co-opted religion as a marketing tactic. But religion as inherently anti-woman? I don’t think so.
MissyPeach, in your haste to defend religion, you failed to notice that no one was attacking it in this post. if you read the piece again, you’ll see that it was the tipster, not me, who mentioned the use of religious messages on Forever 21 bags–but nowhere did she say that it undermined women, she merely said that it provoked chatter on feminist blogs.
Absolutely nowhere did anyone say that religion was inherently anti-woman. And if you were a regular reader of this blog, you would know that I am religious myself and have discussed my faith openly; I do not believe religion to be inherently anti-feminist.