grandma.of.a.lesser.god and her granddaughter.of.a.lesser.god
I got the call just after noon on Saturday. My mom asked me how I was feeling (I had been sick almost all week) and if I was making progress on a final paper due on the 17th. It seemed to be a mundane conversation.
Then she paused and said softly, “Listen, Grandpa died.”
My Grandpa Buddy was eighty-seven years old and the kind of guy who seemed to have the proverbial nine lives, surviving World War II, an aneurysm, bladder cancer, fifty years of smoking, and two open heart surgeries before being felled by a sudden bout of pneumonia. He was the son of Russian Jews who fled the pogroms; he was fond of telling frighteningly raunchy jokes, and took the time to communicate with my father (his former son-in-law) even though my parents divorced more than two decades ago. Six days before his death he gave me a compendium of New York Times coverage of the Yankees, dating back to 1901. He had been with my grandmother since 1941, and married since 1943. They had four children, fourteen grandchildren, and three great-grandchildren together.
And for all sixty-six years of their marriage, Grandpa handled the finances. While Grandma Lennor minded the house, tended to the next generation(s), cooked dinner, and walked their succession of dearly beloved dogs, Grandpa brought home the income, took care of the checkbook, the rent, the Social Security and Veterans benefits, the gas and electric bills, the health insurance, and countless other pecuniary matters. I didn’t know about this division of labor until Monday, when my Grandma said, “I’m angry because he left and there are things I don’t know how to do.” She looked at my mother and added in a plaintive voice, “I don’t know how to deal with money.”
The question I was left with was, will my grandmother be able (or willing) to learn independence at the age of 84? She married my grandfather at eighteen, going straight from her mother’s household where she was similarly unconcerned with financial issues. It was something she — and my grandfather — never felt she had to learn. And for six and a half decades, that seemed to work. This didn’t represent some fundamental power dynamic within their marriage as much as it did the assumption that money was a man’s business, just as children were a women’s.
I now wonder if my mother had her mother in mind when she repeatedly drilled the phrase “never depend on a man for money” into the heads of her daughters, and whether she also was thinking, “never depend on a man to handle the money.” I grew up in a different situation than my mother. Unlike Grandma, she was a full-time working mother who taught herself to manage the ins and outs of financial matters. And my stepmother was the same way, as were my two aunts. My hope is that mother.of.a.lesser.god, and aunts.of.a.lesser.god can help my grandmother navigate her finances, although I can’t begin to conceive of how overwhelming that concept seems to my Grandma, especially right after losing her husband. And I wish so many women weren’t conditioned by society to think that it won’t do any harm to always leave money matters to men. Even without the loss of the partner who handles finances, it’s a relationship component that can only erode a woman’s independence.
I feel terrible for your grandma. Grief is bad enough without adding a sense of helplessness and despair over finances. She’s lucky she has her family to take care of her.
I do think that’s a pretty typical scenario for a woman of her generation. One of my grandmas learned to handle money because she was widowed at 31, but she was exceptional in her social circle. The other had a husband who was NOT good with money, and just suffered and stewed about it for decades, presumably because she felt she couldn’t take charge of the finances herself (she would have been much better at it).
I have some middle-aged female family members who delegate all that to their husbands but in one case I think it’s just terribly low self-esteem (she literally believes she’s not smart enough anymore, even though she used to keep books professionally) and in the other case it’s just pure snobbery (her lily-white hands shouldn’t be soiled with, y’know…bizness). Otherwise, most of the women in our family have bucked off that trend and are very canny about their finances.
Sarah, I’m so sorry to hear about your grandfather, and your grandma’s feelings of helplessness on top of the grief. It’s terrible.
My maternal grandmother taught me how to balance a checkbook when I was ten, but Granny was unusual for her generation. She was born in 1907, the daughter of a general store owner and the first woman in her family to go to college (where she got a degree in Home Economics with a minor in chemistry). She managed the books for my grandfather’s chicken hatchery, and when he died in an accident when my mother was five, she got a job teaching school and sent three daughters to college on that salary. By the time she passed on at the age of 90, she’d spent most of her life managing money. My other grandma also managed the money; my grandfather was a journalist who did a lot of traveling, and it was just more sensible for my grandma, a school nurse who was at home much more, to handle that.
As a result of this, I don’t think I have any female family members who would even think of delegating it all to their husbands. One of my aunts is an accountant, another runs her husband’s family’s mortuary, and another is an ophthalmologist who raised her daughter on her own for several years before remarrying. And my mom? Wouldn’t dream of delegating it all to dad. Ever.
So recently my dad was out of commission for a while, and it came to light during that time that my parents’ finances were and are a mess. Like, home foreclosure-level mess. I sat down with my mom to try to straighten some things out, making budget spreadsheets on the computer, printing out their credit reports, showing her how to read that, etc. She had no copies of files, no idea what accounts they had, no power of attorney to access the checking account into which his pension is direct-deposited (she didn’t even know they had an account at that bank) etc. And this was complicated by the fact that my dad had, for various reasons, not wanted to let her know how dire their financial situ was, so he had kept some records and things to himself. It was terrifying for me to realize that my mom didn’t even know how to read her own credit report, because she never had to.
Now, bear in mind that my mother is not an un-intelligent person. She has a graduate degree, is a retired teacher and is very organized herself. But at some point early in my parents’ marriage, they fell into a pattern where my dad handled money things, she had a set amount for household spending, and he wrote all the checks, managed the investments and everything else. I suspect that, never having been good at math, she just assumed that it was all over her head anyway.
When this situation arose, my dad admitted that he hadn’t been upfront with my mom about their finances, but said “She never wanted to know.” She admitted that she should have been more proactive, but blamed him for not letting him know what was going on. I see it as one massive communication/relationship Fail.
Interestingly, both of my grandmothers were/are (one is still living) pretty on top of their money and business. My mom’s mother had berated her for years for not being more involved in the family finances.
And even after all this shit has gone down, I still don’t see my mom taking on a more active role in their finances, and that worries me. My dad is back on his feet, and they are facing their current difficulties together, but someday he will probably be gone (genetics would dictate she will live longer) and I’m not sure she will know how to manage at all. Fortunately she has two relatively clever children, and a brother who is a CPA.
As for me? Scared by this experience, I just overhauled my retirement investments and am formulating a new debt-busting budget, and I am *determined* that if I ever combine finances with a partner I will know everything that is going on.
This is one of my recurring nightmares. When my dad (86) goes, my mom will collapse into a helpless heap, and my life will flush down the toilet. I can’t pursue this train of thought too long, I have to break off. And yeah, the patriarchy did this to her.
RIP, Grandpa Buddy. H&R, Grandma Lennor.
That was probably too flippant. I hope your grandma is able to get the assistance she needs to get a handle on her financial life, even if she’s not the only/main manager.
My mother was the bookkeeper of my family, and she’s been divorced for 13 or so years now, so she’s had to be on top of it. Sold a house, bought another, did capital improvements on it, then drained her investments (before the great economic flush, thanks be) in order to consolidate her retirement (she is a teacher with “years” vested in 4 different states). She’s on it.
Although I am *terrible* at abstract math and I’m a number-flipper, she learned me good to always know how much $ I have and where it is, to keep the checkbook current and balanced, and to be very wary of debt. I have no idea, really, what to do about investments or retirement, however. Probably because I’ve never had enough that I could save on a regular basis.
@flacketteNow, bear in mind that my mother is not an un-intelligent person. She has a graduate degree, is a retired teacher and is very organized herself. But at some point early in my parents’ marriage, they fell into a pattern where my dad handled money things, she had a set amount for household spending, and he wrote all the checks, managed the investments and everything else. I suspect that, never having been good at math, she just assumed that it was all over her head anyway.
Yes, I totally feel like that is the dynamic a lot of the time. Especially when you consider that not only is finance deemed to be a male area, but so is math. There can also be a bit of the “well, if the dude makes more than the lady does, he should be in charge of the dough!” Which, given instances of wage inequity, stay-at-home-mothers, and the like, throws another wrench into the equation for women.
@PhD: Not too flippant. Humor is always needed!
soalg – my condolences that your grandfather passed away.
From a young age, I remember my mum sitting down with us when we started getting pocket money and going over budget basics, things like saving 5-10% (even if it meant we saved 5cents a fortnight).
Whilst living at home, I didn’t pay attention to the budgeting mum taught us, not really saving anything and blowing all my $s on crap. I didn’t appreciate the importance of budgeting, and saving a little each fortnight at all until I left home and I had to do budgets so that my wages would last for the whole fortnight.
My savings have come in handy for when life has one of its crap financial moments.
When I have lived with a SO, we have maintained separate budgets but divied up who pays for what so that each of us contributes equitably to the household, and ultimately control is maintained by each person on how they spend their money.
I am sceptical of combining finances with another person. Mostly because I think each person should know what happens with their $s. Where a SO hasn’t learnt how to budget, I show them how I do it, and they can do what they like with that information.
Sarah, I am very sorry for your loss and your grandmother’s situation. I blame the patriarchy.
In my family, my mom handles ALL the money. Some of this has to do with my dad blowing an obscene amount of money on a brief but brutal addiction. I’m pretty sure he’s on an allowance now. He’s retired, she works, and he does most of the housework, now. But even when he was working, my mom paid all the bills and gave my dad spending money. But he still had access to their accounts then, and he’s always had a better head for investing then her.
I think all of this has lead me to be good with money (better than my current husband and way better the first husband). We kind of handle things jointly as far as paying the bills but I’m clueless and terrified of investing – something I really need to do, especially as my husband is 14 years older than me. Also, at the rate I’m going I’ll never be able to retire. He’s pretty good at investing (he’s regained all the money his 401K lost last year). Maybe I should have him pick the products my job offers (NYS Deferred Comp). But I feel weird about that – like I should know where every penny is going. On the other hand, I find high finances extremely boring and terribly complicated. And risky – money is the one thing I’m conservative about!
P.S. Such a cute picture! I hope everything works out for your Grandma.
@Rodriguez: When my dad (86) goes, my mom will collapse into a helpless heap, and my life will flush down the toilet
You know, I have a slightly different experience with a similar situation regarding fathers and age/illness. My father has Early-Onset Alzheimer’s (he’ll be 62 on Christmas Day) and has not been able to work for two years now. My stepmother, who has worked alongside him since the year I was born, has taken charge of their consulting firm and, although she was always an equal partner in their financial management, she has now taken it all on. Thinking about it for the first time today, I am really grateful for her sake and his that she has not been thrown totally into the deep end of the money situation due to my dad’s illness.
@La Chica Lucy: Such a cute picture! I hope everything works out for your Grandma.
Thanks on both counts.
My mom is actually the spitting image of her, and I’m grateful whenever my family mentions that I have a lot of my grandma’s personality.
So sorry for your loss, soalg, and for your grandma’s distress. Thanks heavens she has capable daughters to help her. I also love that photo!
I come at this from a slightly different perspective. As the daughter of a fiercely independent woman, and having witnessed an intensely bitter divorce over a decade, and having heard many, many exhortations from both parents never to combine finances, I waited a long time to do so with my husband. Finally I did it gritting my teeth and waiting for the axe/wall/world to fall. We only just combined finances about two years ago, because we needed to in order to buy a house. And you know what? It has made our lives easier. And I still have at least half control.
I am the breadwinner now, which helps me feel independent and in control. But DH frankly really does know a lot more about finance than I do (he used to work in high-level finance and rocked at it), and he’s better about paying bills. So while I always maintain my own opinion and knowledge about money, I always listen to his opinion and planning ideas. Over the last decade, he has proven right in almost every case.
Sometimes it makes me angry with myself to be so traditional about it (it reeks of being a “little woman” in my head when I admit he’s probably right about some financial issue), but he really does know more about it than I do, as has been borne out over the last ten years. I of course insist on equal decision making power, we discuss everything financial, I keep informed, and pay half the bills myself. But still… for me, it’s been a long road to admit that he’s usually better at this than I am. But I will never, repeat NEVER, be in the dark about our finances.
S.O.A.L.G., please accept my sincere sympathy and convey it to your family. May your grandfather’s memory be for a blessing.
Thank you for sharing that lovely photo. It looks like your grandmother will have a lot of loving support in the days to come.
Btw, how come we don’t teach this stuff in school? It would be very useful for kids to graduate knowing how to balance a checkbook and design a budget. Let’s skip the Bible studies and do something useful, school boards.
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It’s worth noting that even in an equal partnership, bill paying usually falls to one person. I pay all our bills, just because I’m the one who’s always been good with budgeting. And my husband is on all the accounts, and certainly knows where we bank, and I try to keep a list of all our bills up to date, but I worry about it being hard for him if something happens to me (beyond the single grieving father thing). It’s just that chores get divided up. He cleans the kitchen and does the vacuuming, I do the laundry and the bills. We could try to trade off every month, but it’s just easier for me to do it every time.
My parents were the same way, and when my dad died, my mom had to watch the mail carefully. She mostly knew what bills were due, but she was pretty worried about missing things (especially since things had already slid in the months she was living at the hospital). Additionally, she had to spend three days removing my dad from all the accounts, which was pretty horrible.
Anytime you combine finances, it’s a risk, but I can’t help but feel it might be even more of a risk if you don’t. As it is now, if something happened to my husband, his car and bank accounts are automatically mine without probate or lawyers. I definitely think that would make life easier.
I’m sorry for your loss, sarah. I hope your grandmother does well.
MamaSoprano doesn’t even balance the checkbook–PapaSoprano does all of that. But they raise me to be able to do my own thing, and I’m glad for that.
Gender roles have changed so much–these days it seems nearly impossible that a woman not know about the finances in her household.
Sorry to hear about your grandfather, Sarah.
And your grandma’s situation is, to be honest, one I had never stopped to think about – my grandfathers both died before I was born, so I grew up with them being completely in control of their finances.
To address the title of the post: my parents have both talked openly about finances for years. I’ve learned a lot by watching them, and my inborn pathological fear of debt has so far stood me in good stead. One thing I am nervous about is investing, though. I know it will probably be necessary at some point, but I am a bit intimidated by the stock market and its unpredictability. I wish there were still old-style pensions nowadays, that would make the idea of saving for retirement much less frightening.
@s.o.a.l.g. Thanks for your thoughts about your father’s Alzheimer’s. I realized how whiny I must sound, and I am sorry. And, I am sorry for your grandmother’s and your family’s loss. Her pain is hard for me to fit into my small head.
Endora: Two pieces of advice.
1) Mutual Funds – there’s no reason you have to pick individual stocks. Choose a fund that’s historically done well, and they do the research for you.
2) Fee for Time Financial Adviser. Most financial advisers get money buy convincing you to buy products, but some get paid by the hour, and if you don’t need anything they’ll tell you so.
I recently had this conversation with my mom and grandma. While both women handle the household finances and my mom has a job, in both cases the bank accounts are joint and neither woman has any form of credit history in their own names. They are all Mrs [male name] [last name]. The credit history is all credited to their husbands, even though it was the women who managed the household finances and paid all the bills.
Mom was shocked because she hadn’t even been allowed to co-sign a loan for my brother, despite having worked as a nurse for the last 30 years at the same job.
After the conversation, mom and grandma both sent up bank accounts and credit cards in their own name. Thank goodness.
@rodriguez: You do not sound whiny AT ALL!
I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.
I’m sorry for your loss, too.
We’re dealing with a similar situation in my family, too. My grandfather has dementia which has pretty much taken away his short-term memory ability. But, because he always handled the fiances, he still handles the fiances. He also shouldn’t be driving the car either but because he’s always done that, he still does it.
My grandfather is also a very stubborn and willful person who treats a suggestion like “maybe grandma should drive” as a personal attack.
My grandma is a smart, outgoing lady and is perfectly capable of doing anything herself, but it’s like these things are my grandfather’s territory so she won’t touch them. They’re stuck in old, stupid patterns. Besides it being frustrating to watch this play out, I am a little worried that when she actually must take over the fiances she won’t do it.