O Magazine writer Martha Beck is all about holding a grudge…for good reason. She writes:
Can love, forgiveness, and holding grudges really go together? Yes, they can — depending on how you define grudge.
A good grudge is simply an acknowledgment of another person’s foibles — it keeps you at a safe emotional distance from people who could mess up your life. Depending on the person, you might hold a grudge as light as a parasol or as solid as a titanium shield.
Beck’s essay goes on to describe the three types she feels are most worthy of a good self-protective grudge: gaslighters (people who make you feel creepy and self-doubting), les pitiables (people who take advantage of your pity) and Mr. Hydes (those given to sudden, inexplicable rages or personality shifts). In many ways Beck’s advocating a version of Gavin de Becker’s advice to always trust your instincts; if your interactions with someone feel wrong, you want to leave that person alone–or if you can’t avoid them completely, be vigilant. Holding a grudge, she says, is just a useful way of keeping your guard up.
Beck’s article hit home because, I confess, I am a big ol’ grudge holder. I have joked with my boss that, like Colbert, I keep ongoing On Notice and Dead To Me lists in my office. They feature people who I’ve caught lying or doing something shady during business dealings. This might seem judgmental, but in my professional life, that kind of judgment is essential. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…well, a healthy grudge means you won’t get that chance.
Like a lot of people, I have a few Gaslighters and Mr Hydes in my family, and they make Sharper family gatherings…interesting. When it comes to family conflict, we often get told to “move on” or “just let it slide off your back” rather than nurse a grudge. After all, you’re stuck with these people.
On one hand, this can be good advice; I don’t want to stay angry about some mean bullshit someone said at a holiday dinner 15 years ago. On other hand, a grudge has some real upside; it makes me way more inclined to avoid certain people. I’ve learned who to minimize contact with, and that has minimized the drama significantly. Sure, it’s a grudge, but it’s a self-protective one, and we should never have to apologize for being self-protective. As Martha Beck wisely points out:
If you’re in a constant mouth-foaming rage at someone, get away and get a shrink. But if you simply find your mood dipping whenever you encounter a certain person, I suggest holding a grudge.
Are you grudge-y? Do you think it’s helpful or hurtful..or both?
Framed the way the author does, grudges are helpful; but the word carries a heavy connotation of not being willing to move on from whatever caused the grudge.
I personally take a stance that I frame as “forgive but don’t forget”. I remember the behavior and factor it into my future expectations, but leave room for my mind to be changed and/or the person in question to change.
I am grudge-y but I don’t let it be helpful. I’ve had friends do really bad things to me and looked at them more suspiciously but still been friends with them, tried to trust them, etc. While holding the grudge. Ultimately just a mess. I’m working on listening to my intuition more.
I’m not a grudge holder at all. I can’t stay mad at anyone, try as I might. However, that doesn’t mean I’m a fool. I use my judgment to minimize contact with toxic people, to second guess liars, etc., but I’m not going to hold on the emotional side of grudge holding, or sort of punishing people who have done me wrong. I suppose I see it more as being conscious and perceptive about other people and who they are than holding onto a feeling of anger about them. But if I am honest I probably do suffer fools a little too gladly.
Heather, forgive but don’t forget is really helpful, I’m gonna hold on to that one.
Yeah, forgiveness if fine. Forgetfulness, IMO, means you’re wide open for another round of fuckery.
And in very rare instances, I don’t even think forgiveness is necessary. Some things are unforgiveable, and some people deserve to be cut off permanently. Again, only in very rare instances.
For me, forgiveness is something I do for myself – there were people in my life I thought I’d never, ever speak to again and all it did was tie my stomach in knots when I thought of them, so I did some work and was able to a) recognize my own part in whatever the grievance was and b) forgive them for their part while also c) learning from the experience to make sure I didn’t commit my error or leave myself open to their behavior again.
You can keep a mental note of “Do not trust” without acting begrudging in person, also – there are a few people I keep at arm’s length and am civil/polite to but won’t engage with on any deeper level.
I worked with someone who seemed to be pleasant and helpful and positive yet after every encounter I’d feel like a failure. It was a new job for me so I already had a reasonable amount of self-doubt. It took me months to learn to listen carefully to exactly the way she phrased things, especially any “help” she gave me. There was always a little needle hidden in her comments.
I found that I could work very well with her as long as we communicated with e-mail. She wouldn’t put the needle in print. It would be so successful that I’d start to forget and make the mistake of going to talk something over in person. Back to wanting to shoot myself. I finally kept the grudge permanently in mind and immunized myself.
I’m moderately grudge-y, I think. I’m usually able to forgive, but there are certain things that will put a person on my shitlist for life, and while they may never know – Midwest Nice is deeply, deeply ingrained – I’m going to view their every action with cynical suspicion, waiting for them to pull their crap on me a second time. The one example I can think of currently is one of my former bosses, who went on a six month campaign to undermine me and ultimately get rid of me at that company. We’re in the same industry (consultancy librarians) so we can’t entirely avoid each other, and I’m polite anytime I have the occasion to speak to or correspond with her.
But I fucking hate her, and this shit went down in 2007.
I’m definitely a grudge holder, but like ratinski’s it’s usually a silent grudge. It’s probably not actually that healthy to suppress all that and try to act like nothing’s wrong, but it’s just the way I work.
I think that part of my problem too is that I am reluctant to cut people off in a professional capacity because I so often end up running into the same folks, even at a different job or in a different country. It’s a delicate balance between self preservation and not burning bridges I’m gonna need later. The worst is when I smell a snake but nobody seems to see the person that way.
I struggle to be consistent and frequently fail. I honor my own grudges against people and walk away without guilt, but then find myself not wanting to let go of those who may have a grudge against ME. I keep coming back trying to talk to them, whats wrong etc .. cant we start again. Knowing when to walk away is so hard, its like poker maybe, know when to hold em, know when to fold em.
I don’t hold grudges, in so far as I don’t – cannot – stay angry or upset with someone for very long. But I am extremely energy-efficient with my social relationships. If we love other people, we set ourselves up for some stress and heartache, but there are people who are worth that and others who are not. When people are repeatedly disrespectful, inconsiderate or cruel – when they are an unnecessary and unrewarding drain on my resources – I quietly step away. I have chronic ill health, so I have become more “ruthless” as part of managing on very limited physical and mental resources – but life is short for everyone and everyone has some limits on their resources.
So there are people, including family members, who remain at arm’s length and other family members have accused me of being unforgiving. But I have forgiven them, I never think about what they’ve done, but I will apply the lessons learnt from my past interactions with them and keep my distance. I wouldn’t call this a grudge – a grudge sounds like a burden on the person who holds it – but yeah, it makes life a lot easier.
That having been said, I am a great believer in leaving doors ajar. With most of my Arm’s Length people, I haven’t shut them out for good if they ever wanted to come knocking. Only of course, they don’t, because if they were the sort to do that they would never have ended up on the outside.
I am absolutely a grudge holder — I’m currently nursing a really good one about a friend of my fiance’s who wrote me a few months ago to ask if she could bring HER PARENTS to our wedding. OK, crazy, stay back at least 500 feet.
I actually go beyond grudges to full-on friend dumping. This might be a passive thing (I just throw the person on my own dead-to-me list and stop replying to messages) or a deliberate action. I wrote two friend breakup emails last year and passively dumped 5 other people. Some of my retained friends tell me I am being too harsh, etc., but honestly, what is the point of maintaining relationships that are completely negative and soul-sucking? This is why I am for the clean break and resulting lifetime grudge.
I have deep suspicions about people and am not the most trusting (particularly in work situations) of many people but I don’t really hold grudges in the sense that I stay mad at people or the like.
The times I have got mad at people and attempted to hold a grudge basically fell apart if the person attempted to make up. I am tenderhearted about that sort of thing. If someone apologizes I find it nearly impossible to continue to freeze them out completely even if I probably should.
Oh! the only successful grudges I have managed to hold have been against various extended family members that I think are horrible. Particularly my one cousin who’s super religious. It helps nurse the grudge along when every time I see him he says at least one more offensive thing. I can barely stomach being in the same room with him. I have told him off before and I think he’s somewhat afraid of me. Which just makes me loathe him even more for being such a spineless wuss.
I don’t really see cutting people off, or keeping them at arm’s length holding a grudge. For me, grudges have a much more intense, active, emotional component that just keeping yourself at a safe distance from toxic people.
I’m with the Geek, here. I’ve been trying to think of anyone against whom I have a grudge, and I get close in two categories: people who are gigundo assholes, with whom I have cut off all contact, and those who I’ve learned not to expect much from (or to expect certain behaviors). Those aren’t quite it, though… Maybe a grudge is the early stage, before I’ve made up my mind?
I’m a family-grudge holder. Partly, it’s that my mother was never close to her family, and I’ve never even met her brothers. It wasn’t some big dramatic feud, it never seemed weird or awkward, she just didn’t talk to them much and never saw them. I think that conditioned me to care less about the sacred bond of family than other people. The result is that I have very little contact with my dad’s side of the family. My bio-dad is an incredibly critical, pedantic mansplainer. So I tell him when I’m getting married or pregnant, and that’s it. His mother was a crabby woman who badmouthed my mother to me when I was a child and spent most of our time together complaining that I didn’t visit more often. So I haven’t seen her in 15 years.
I run into problems with my husband, who is completely baffled by my attitude. He’s incredibly close to his family, and genuinely can’t understand why I don’t feel like I need to be close to these unpleasant people. He really worries that I’m going to regret it when they’re gone, and that I’m depriving our kid(s) of family who would love them. He would never really push, but I can’t make him understand the value of protecting myself either.
I agree. I’m not trying to argue. I just wanted to add in one point after reading the article and some of the comments…the ability to “hold a grudge” in this way is a privilege. I don’t mean that in the same way as white privilege or male privilege or anything, I wouldn’t dare conflate social isolation with structural prejudices…but just keep in mind that anyone who engages in grudge-holding or friend-dumping or any of those types of behaviors can do so because they have other people in their lives and they have other options. It’s much more difficult to put people on a Colbert-esque “on notice” list if your only other option is total isolation. Sometimes (and I’m not saying it’s right, only that it’s human) people just need to keep a destructive, mean person in their life because it can seem better than the alternative.
I don’t hold a grudge in the sense that it keeps me angry or fixated or uses any of my emotional energy, but I do “hold a grudge” in that I have a good memory, high standards for interpersonal interaction, and a “Do this once and you’re dead to me” list that seems to be longer than most other people’s. I don’t tolerate liars, for example. If someone lies to me, or I’m around them lying to someone else, I’m done hanging out with them. But then I just move on. So I don’t think of it as a grudge.
But when people ask, “Why don’t you like so-and-so?” and I list the reasons, I get this response like, “Wow, that was a long time ago, why are you still mad?” I’m not mad. I’m just answering your question!
I’ve also juggled multiple somewhat-overlapping groups of friends really successfully since about the 9th grade, so I guess I do have some privilege in that regard. At one point I cut out an entire group of toxic, everything-they-learned-about-women’s-friendships-they-learned-from-a-shitty-romcom friends, right after I had moved to a new city (which left me scandalously low in my estimation on people to spend time with). I was able to do that because I knew I had best friends far away and reasonably good acquaintances nearby, and eventually I’d get back to a good balance.
Thanks for bringing up this article, BeckySharper! I have close family members who qualify as Mr. Hydes, Les Pitiables and Gaslighters — sometimes in delightful combination. And growing up, I thought it was normal, and that I deserved to be treated that way, so I made friends who were like that too. It took me way too long to understand this was a jacked up way to live, and I weeded out the friends who were really harmful. My family is another matter. The worst offender is cut off, but I treat the others with caution. By keeping their issues in mind, I don’t let them hurt me as much. It means we can’t be close, but it’s a lot healthier.
that’s an interesting way to put it, Yvan (this is my new nickname for you). I do think I differ from some other people in that I don’t have particularly high standards for interpersonal relationships and am often surprised when other people do. Maybe that is part of what we are talking about when we talk about “grudges.” Because I don’t really mind when people break dates, commit white lies, act selfishly on occasion, or whatever might be on the “dead to me” list, however, I worry that I sometimes hurt people’s feelings because I may not observe some unspoken rule myself. Maybe I end up with more easy going friends because I myself have been cut off!!! If I see a friend lie, for example, I will just file it in my mind that they are capable of lying and use it in my interpretation of their behavior, but for some reason I don’t really hold it against them. I’m much more likely to cut someone off for needing more from me than I can give them than for violating a standard of behavior I disagree with.
J.D.- Just to be clear, I’m talking about friends. Actual friends. In a work setting or with acquaintances, I will take notice of shitty behavior in a “that’s going in your file” kind of way, but not have a strong reaction because I don’t expect a lot from those people. Or anything, really. Civility?
But I do expect a lot from my friends.
(On a more personal p.s.: It’s weird to think of myself as Not Easygoing, because I like humor and don’t own an iron, but I guess I’m not in this regard.)
sorry i didn’t mean to be passive aggressive there or indicate that you were less than a cool chill person. I’m just trying to look over my behavior and realizing that I have often felt mystified when friends are mad at me for whatever reason and can think of very very few situations in which I have felt angry at someone and am just trying to figure myself out.
Oh no, I didn’t think you were taking a dig. I just had a moment where I read that, and thought “Wait I’m easygoing!” but then reviewed my behavior and had a self-awareness moment. Just thinking out loud, not implied criticism of perceived implied criticism intended.
@yvanehtnioj – I’ve gotten that sort of reaction too. I think it’s a weird preemptive self defense thing. Like, people want to be able to be jerks sometimes without facing the consequences of permanently alienating others, so when you have standards like that, it makes them worried that they’ll cause the same sort of thing…which they take out on you for having standards and not on themselves for being jerks sometimes. But this is just a theory.
I agree with the general concept but agree that the wording is not very helpful. To me, the very phrase “holding a grudge” implies someone intent on retaliation.
A more useful concept for me is “setting boundaries” rather than “holding a grudge.” Setting limits or enforcing boundaries is a matter of self preservation. It focuses on taking care of yourself rather than trying to get back at the other person. One can set boundaries early on, while still angry over an incident, or long afterward, when feeling detached and completely over it. Boundaries can be flexible or rigid depending on the person or the situation. And they can be applied with or without forgiveness.
Anyway, that’s what works for me.
I don’t really like the term “holding grudges,” it sounds like something a person should try not to do. I prefer to think about it as, “policing my boundaries.”
Or what ahimsa said.
@ahimsa & bellacoker: I like “setting boundaries” and “policing boundaries” more than “holding a grudge” too.
I think what Beck was trying to do in this article was to reclaim “holding a grudge”, since women–her audience–are often accused of holding a grudge (a BAD thing) when really what they’re doing is just what you said: policing their boundaries (a GOOD thing). I think her point is, “yeah, if you want to call it holding a grudge, then I’m doing that and it’s a good thing.”
@jdregent: I feel this way about my friends as well. Breaking plans the occasional lie whatever, it doesn’t really bother me. Once I actually like someone its pretty hard to piss me off.
@ausgezeichnet, I have dumped more than a few friends, and have been accused of being too judgmental. And yeah, I’ve grown up and maybe would act differently today, but cutting off a toxic relationship can be essential for your own wellbeing.
I wonder if men get accused of holding grudges as often as women seem to, when all they’re doing is having boundaries.
I see it as one of those insidious societal sexisms, actually. I definitely have had to create and enforce boundaries against my manipulative and abusive father, and the rest of my family accuses me of trying to “punish” him by not talking to him. I say, no, it’s not about *him* for once, it’s about me, just protecting myself, thanks for caring! I don’t wish him ill, I just don’t want to be subjected to his bullshit anymore. Totally different.
I also get accused of having a grudge, and I wonder: how it can be a grudge to want to move on with your life? Isn’t that the opposite of having a grudge?
I agree with the others above: having a grudge is wallowing in it – entirely different from saying, ok, I’m over this, moving on to greener pastures, you had your chance, good luck, bye now!
I think that women are just less allowed in our society to act in self-preserving ways. Sad. The expectation to be a doormat is so fricking pervasive!