<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Feminist (Ally?) Food for Thought: Richard Delgado</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 05:22:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cimorene</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21633</link>
		<dc:creator>Cimorene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just wrote a short essay on the word &quot;cunt&quot; and was reading some Judith Butler (again) to reacquaint myself with some of her ideas. My piece was more about language and speech theory than legal stuff, though. 

See, the thing is that I find Butler&#039;s arguments about how restricting freedom of speech, by which she meant giving the government the right and ability to restrict it, would actually hurt hypothetical group C more than it would help, because the government is composed of mostly group A. Which I think is probably right. But at the same time, I found MacKinnon&#039;s work in &lt;i&gt;Only Words&lt;/i&gt; to be far more in line with my own opinions on speech, which is basically that words, some words, are more than just words. Butler addresses this as well, but as far as I can tell, for her it doesn&#039;t matter that much because restricting hate speech inevitably restricts marginalized speech. 

I guess for me, it&#039;s less about group C having a platform in media than it is about specific interactions between individuals. A few months ago this guy started walking behind me while I was walking my dog, making pleasant conversation about him. Then after a few exchanges he started telling me how what I needed was to be fucked, that I needed a kid instead of a dog and so what I needed was a hard fucking, etc etc. It was extremely clear to me that this person was threatening to rape me. I felt terrified that he was going to come over and try to hurt me and that my dog would kill him and they would take my dog away from me, but in my brain I was like &quot;Goddamn it fuck this guy!&quot; because I knew that he was threatening me with violence. Then, after I got home in one piece and with no dead criminals on my dog&#039;s conscience, I was fantasizing about what I would have done in alternate universes, including saying a command to my dog that would turn him into a hell hound death machine, and calling the cops and reporting him. But in that second fantasy, I realized that if I called any cops and told them that some guy was following me, telling me I needed to be fucked so that I could have a baby, they probably wouldn&#039;t agree with me that the dude was threatening me. Now, legally I know that if he had said &quot;I am going to rape you&quot; that would pretty much have been illegal. Because that would be a threat, and threats aren&#039;t covered under the 1st Amendment. But would anyone agree that &quot;You need to be fucked is what you need, so you can have a baby instead of a dog&quot; was a threat? Should what he said to me have been illegal? That exchange totally fucked me up, and for weeks after I wouldn&#039;t walk my dog alone late at night because I was scared--I made my boyfriend walk with me, and trust that bringing a male chaperon with me made me feel like I had a bomb in my stomach and was about to explode, I was so angry/frustrated/sad/humiliated/etc. So this guy&#039;s right to not-threaten threaten me basically trumped my right to walk around my neighborhood alone at night without feeling like I was under attack--the first and most acute curtailing of that right was during the actual exchange itself, when he was threatening me, but continued for several weeks after it.  Why should that kind of speech be more important than my safety?

But you know, I still can&#039;t really think of how to deal with the reality that the government is made up of &quot;group A,&quot; or a bunch of men who would probably agree with that dude that what I need is to get fucked, have a baby, and STFU. I mean, I don&#039;t actually even know if he had said &quot;I am going to rape you,&quot; if that would have been considered a threat, or threatening enough to get arrested. 

Whenever the topic of free speech comes up, I tend to think of stalkers. I can&#039;t help but see all kinds of parallels, at the last, in the issues, because stalkers basically exercise their rights at the expense of other folks&#039; rights, just like the right of a dudely old rich white dude to talk effectively trumps the right of a poor black lesbian deaf tween to talk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wrote a short essay on the word &#8220;cunt&#8221; and was reading some Judith Butler (again) to reacquaint myself with some of her ideas. My piece was more about language and speech theory than legal stuff, though. </p>
<p>See, the thing is that I find Butler&#8217;s arguments about how restricting freedom of speech, by which she meant giving the government the right and ability to restrict it, would actually hurt hypothetical group C more than it would help, because the government is composed of mostly group A. Which I think is probably right. But at the same time, I found MacKinnon&#8217;s work in <i>Only Words</i> to be far more in line with my own opinions on speech, which is basically that words, some words, are more than just words. Butler addresses this as well, but as far as I can tell, for her it doesn&#8217;t matter that much because restricting hate speech inevitably restricts marginalized speech. </p>
<p>I guess for me, it&#8217;s less about group C having a platform in media than it is about specific interactions between individuals. A few months ago this guy started walking behind me while I was walking my dog, making pleasant conversation about him. Then after a few exchanges he started telling me how what I needed was to be fucked, that I needed a kid instead of a dog and so what I needed was a hard fucking, etc etc. It was extremely clear to me that this person was threatening to rape me. I felt terrified that he was going to come over and try to hurt me and that my dog would kill him and they would take my dog away from me, but in my brain I was like &#8220;Goddamn it fuck this guy!&#8221; because I knew that he was threatening me with violence. Then, after I got home in one piece and with no dead criminals on my dog&#8217;s conscience, I was fantasizing about what I would have done in alternate universes, including saying a command to my dog that would turn him into a hell hound death machine, and calling the cops and reporting him. But in that second fantasy, I realized that if I called any cops and told them that some guy was following me, telling me I needed to be fucked so that I could have a baby, they probably wouldn&#8217;t agree with me that the dude was threatening me. Now, legally I know that if he had said &#8220;I am going to rape you&#8221; that would pretty much have been illegal. Because that would be a threat, and threats aren&#8217;t covered under the 1st Amendment. But would anyone agree that &#8220;You need to be fucked is what you need, so you can have a baby instead of a dog&#8221; was a threat? Should what he said to me have been illegal? That exchange totally fucked me up, and for weeks after I wouldn&#8217;t walk my dog alone late at night because I was scared&#8211;I made my boyfriend walk with me, and trust that bringing a male chaperon with me made me feel like I had a bomb in my stomach and was about to explode, I was so angry/frustrated/sad/humiliated/etc. So this guy&#8217;s right to not-threaten threaten me basically trumped my right to walk around my neighborhood alone at night without feeling like I was under attack&#8211;the first and most acute curtailing of that right was during the actual exchange itself, when he was threatening me, but continued for several weeks after it.  Why should that kind of speech be more important than my safety?</p>
<p>But you know, I still can&#8217;t really think of how to deal with the reality that the government is made up of &#8220;group A,&#8221; or a bunch of men who would probably agree with that dude that what I need is to get fucked, have a baby, and STFU. I mean, I don&#8217;t actually even know if he had said &#8220;I am going to rape you,&#8221; if that would have been considered a threat, or threatening enough to get arrested. </p>
<p>Whenever the topic of free speech comes up, I tend to think of stalkers. I can&#8217;t help but see all kinds of parallels, at the last, in the issues, because stalkers basically exercise their rights at the expense of other folks&#8217; rights, just like the right of a dudely old rich white dude to talk effectively trumps the right of a poor black lesbian deaf tween to talk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BearDownCBears</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21582</link>
		<dc:creator>BearDownCBears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess I&#039;ll attempt to roll with Mr. Delgado&#039;s abstract to illustrate my problem with this.  I can conceive of two types of &quot;ideas&quot; promoted by Group C: (1) obviously political ones seeking to enrich Group C economically and provide its members with more opportunity, and (2) squishier ones dealing with the cultural discourse/art/history/philosophy etc. specific to Group C.

I order for Type 1 ideas to become more salient, they require a government that is sympathetic to the plight of Group C.  If poor old Group C could get its hands on some air time in a legit forum, its ideas could gain traction and then perhaps it would convince Groups A and B of the immorality of the current system and convince them to support public policy seeking to correct the inequities perpetuated in this society.  But wait...the government is already sympathetic to the plight of Group C, so why go through all this hassle?  Why doesn&#039;t this sympathetic government address these inequities directly?

As for Type 2 ideas, the government obviously has a preference for Group C in some respect, so how far does it go in subsidizing/promoting Group C in order to make its Type 2 ideas more salient and catalyze their acceptance/integration into the canon or whatever?  If Groups A, B and C all get equal airtime and funding but Group A&#039;s ideas reign triumphant, does the government incorporate more Group C Type 2 ideas unilaterally?  What about Group D, who thinks that space aliens want to churn all God-loving white people into baby food--where is Group D&#039;s piece of the pie?

I guess my primary question is, if tinkering with this right presupposes a particular perpetual ideological leaning by the government, wouldn&#039;t it be easier to just establish, as first priorities, the regulation of material wealth and opportunity (more) in favor of Group C, a narrative favorable to Group C, and the punishment of negative stereotypes of and attitudes toward Group C?  Why go through the kabuki theater of a &quot;forum&quot; and &quot;debate&quot; at all?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;ll attempt to roll with Mr. Delgado&#8217;s abstract to illustrate my problem with this.  I can conceive of two types of &#8220;ideas&#8221; promoted by Group C: (1) obviously political ones seeking to enrich Group C economically and provide its members with more opportunity, and (2) squishier ones dealing with the cultural discourse/art/history/philosophy etc. specific to Group C.</p>
<p>I order for Type 1 ideas to become more salient, they require a government that is sympathetic to the plight of Group C.  If poor old Group C could get its hands on some air time in a legit forum, its ideas could gain traction and then perhaps it would convince Groups A and B of the immorality of the current system and convince them to support public policy seeking to correct the inequities perpetuated in this society.  But wait&#8230;the government is already sympathetic to the plight of Group C, so why go through all this hassle?  Why doesn&#8217;t this sympathetic government address these inequities directly?</p>
<p>As for Type 2 ideas, the government obviously has a preference for Group C in some respect, so how far does it go in subsidizing/promoting Group C in order to make its Type 2 ideas more salient and catalyze their acceptance/integration into the canon or whatever?  If Groups A, B and C all get equal airtime and funding but Group A&#8217;s ideas reign triumphant, does the government incorporate more Group C Type 2 ideas unilaterally?  What about Group D, who thinks that space aliens want to churn all God-loving white people into baby food&#8211;where is Group D&#8217;s piece of the pie?</p>
<p>I guess my primary question is, if tinkering with this right presupposes a particular perpetual ideological leaning by the government, wouldn&#8217;t it be easier to just establish, as first priorities, the regulation of material wealth and opportunity (more) in favor of Group C, a narrative favorable to Group C, and the punishment of negative stereotypes of and attitudes toward Group C?  Why go through the kabuki theater of a &#8220;forum&#8221; and &#8220;debate&#8221; at all?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: baraqiel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21577</link>
		<dc:creator>baraqiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, state-supported media isn&#039;t what I meant at all.  I mean that currently we conceive of protecting our rights and the rights of others to be a patriotic act in some sense, no?  Although of course that changes a lot depending on context, but basically the principle is there -- given how highly we value rights, it&#039;s seen as a moral good to enact your rights and protect them.  Is there a way we could include equal access to the conception of the right?  Or perhaps a more realistic view of equal access.  I guess what I&#039;m trying to say is that I wonder if we could change the discourse so that equal access to platforms is part of the conceptualization of free speech, so that culturally speaking, maintaining equal access to free speech is seen as patriotic and a moral good from the rights standpoint as well as from the anti-oppression standpoint.

Perhaps I&#039;m being overly utopian here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, state-supported media isn&#8217;t what I meant at all.  I mean that currently we conceive of protecting our rights and the rights of others to be a patriotic act in some sense, no?  Although of course that changes a lot depending on context, but basically the principle is there &#8212; given how highly we value rights, it&#8217;s seen as a moral good to enact your rights and protect them.  Is there a way we could include equal access to the conception of the right?  Or perhaps a more realistic view of equal access.  I guess what I&#8217;m trying to say is that I wonder if we could change the discourse so that equal access to platforms is part of the conceptualization of free speech, so that culturally speaking, maintaining equal access to free speech is seen as patriotic and a moral good from the rights standpoint as well as from the anti-oppression standpoint.</p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m being overly utopian here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: yvanehtnioj</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21576</link>
		<dc:creator>yvanehtnioj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To say all that more concisely: a broader range of voices are heard on NPR than on CNN, and on CNN than on the floor of the House, and I worry that putting those guys in charge would actually be a step backward.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To say all that more concisely: a broader range of voices are heard on NPR than on CNN, and on CNN than on the floor of the House, and I worry that putting those guys in charge would actually be a step backward.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: yvanehtnioj</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21574</link>
		<dc:creator>yvanehtnioj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS - I get that, but in a completely theoretical, &quot;I don&#039;t have to worry about the hassle of getting people to agree to this or to agree to pay for it&quot; kind of way it also seems problematic.  

If it&#039;s state-run or state-funded, doesn&#039;t that open the door for the state to completely manipulate who&#039;s being heard and what they&#039;re saying?  I feel like part of the reason PBS and NPR are so good now (read: liberal, thoughtful, interesting) is because they&#039;re kind of vaguely underground as opposed to all the fancy channels.  If people in Congress paid attention to them, if they gave them more money and more of their time, they would totally crack down on programming.  We have crazypants Congresspeople with no sense of history, fairness, or even civility, really.  The right tends to elect extremists (here lately, at least).  Michele Bachman suggested an inquiry to weed out the Socialists in Congress, ffs.

All of that is just to say, if we suddenly had an amazing platform like the BBC or CBC, without a society overhaul it&#039;d be featuring Pat Robertson&#039;s Patriotic Family Hour in about a week and a half.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8211; I get that, but in a completely theoretical, &#8220;I don&#8217;t have to worry about the hassle of getting people to agree to this or to agree to pay for it&#8221; kind of way it also seems problematic.  </p>
<p>If it&#8217;s state-run or state-funded, doesn&#8217;t that open the door for the state to completely manipulate who&#8217;s being heard and what they&#8217;re saying?  I feel like part of the reason PBS and NPR are so good now (read: liberal, thoughtful, interesting) is because they&#8217;re kind of vaguely underground as opposed to all the fancy channels.  If people in Congress paid attention to them, if they gave them more money and more of their time, they would totally crack down on programming.  We have crazypants Congresspeople with no sense of history, fairness, or even civility, really.  The right tends to elect extremists (here lately, at least).  Michele Bachman suggested an inquiry to weed out the Socialists in Congress, ffs.</p>
<p>All of that is just to say, if we suddenly had an amazing platform like the BBC or CBC, without a society overhaul it&#8217;d be featuring Pat Robertson&#8217;s Patriotic Family Hour in about a week and a half.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21572</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@PSoul: Yeah, culturally and politically Americans are so used to having our TV and radio be free-market, consumer-driven enterprises that it&#039;s basically impossible to make them state-owned/run at this point. The communications lobby is extremely powerful and I think voters would flip out if you proposed using tax dollars to nationalize the media--we can barely get the gov&#039;t to give pennies to NPR or PBS as it is.

I feel like we&#039;ve had one model for media in this country for so long that changing it would be like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PSoul: Yeah, culturally and politically Americans are so used to having our TV and radio be free-market, consumer-driven enterprises that it&#8217;s basically impossible to make them state-owned/run at this point. The communications lobby is extremely powerful and I think voters would flip out if you proposed using tax dollars to nationalize the media&#8211;we can barely get the gov&#8217;t to give pennies to NPR or PBS as it is.</p>
<p>I feel like we&#8217;ve had one model for media in this country for so long that changing it would be like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pilgrim Soul</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21571</link>
		<dc:creator>Pilgrim Soul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Becks, I don&#039;t understand - could you elaborate?  Do you mean just culturally people wouldn&#039;t accept it?

yvan: Well, to borrow baraqiel&#039;s concept of &quot;tooling,&quot; I am not suggesting that this would be a complete colution, just that it does provide a sort of stage for voices that are not &quot;commercially viable.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becks, I don&#8217;t understand &#8211; could you elaborate?  Do you mean just culturally people wouldn&#8217;t accept it?</p>
<p>yvan: Well, to borrow baraqiel&#8217;s concept of &#8220;tooling,&#8221; I am not suggesting that this would be a complete colution, just that it does provide a sort of stage for voices that are not &#8220;commercially viable.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21570</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, I suspect state-sponsored media is MORE likely to reinforce cultural privileges about who gets to speak than to remove them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I suspect state-sponsored media is MORE likely to reinforce cultural privileges about who gets to speak than to remove them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21569</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, but the US doesn&#039;t have state-sponsored media of any considerable breadth the way the UK and Canada do, so I don&#039;t know how that concept could be applied here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but the US doesn&#8217;t have state-sponsored media of any considerable breadth the way the UK and Canada do, so I don&#8217;t know how that concept could be applied here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: yvanehtnioj</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/02/08/feminist-ally-food-for-thought-richard-delgado/comment-page-1/#comment-21568</link>
		<dc:creator>yvanehtnioj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=13188#comment-21568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the idea of a state-supported platform like PRI or NPR or PBS is one thing, but are they really representing all interests?  Isn&#039;t the problem that there are voices being drowned out by that platform as well (although fewer than the MSM, I&#039;m sure)?  So then how do you give those groups platforms?  And then the smaller groups, and the next smaller, and so on.  I tend to agree that because privilege is largely a cultural problem, its solution must be cultural.  Of course where privilege is a legal problem that needs to be fixed post haste, but I assume that&#039;s a given.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea of a state-supported platform like PRI or NPR or PBS is one thing, but are they really representing all interests?  Isn&#8217;t the problem that there are voices being drowned out by that platform as well (although fewer than the MSM, I&#8217;m sure)?  So then how do you give those groups platforms?  And then the smaller groups, and the next smaller, and so on.  I tend to agree that because privilege is largely a cultural problem, its solution must be cultural.  Of course where privilege is a legal problem that needs to be fixed post haste, but I assume that&#8217;s a given.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
