Just don't add anything to the punch. We don't all drink here. Via Courtney_Walden @ Flickr
Perhaps because of the new FB page, or perhaps because of the recent series of eclipses, who knows, we’ve had a minor influx of new posters; quite a few of them men.
While we welcome male allies, I’d like to remind them (and all new guests) to read our FAQ page. Two points in particular warrant highlighting. Point #1:
Q: I am in possession of a penis. Am I welcome here?
A: We here at Pursuit of Harpyness generally believe that men can and do participate in the struggle for women’s liberation – or, otherwise said, feminism. Patriarchy hurts men, too. So yes, you are welcome, provided that your plan is to participate in the discussion rather than dominate it. We do ask that as a ground rule, men allow women the authority to be the best people to articulate “what it’s like to be a girl.”
As a corollary to this, male commenters are welcome to articulate what it’s like to be a boy; being careful not to assume that your sex = a coherent gender identity = a certain behavior or attitude which you can then ascribe to all other members of the group you identify with. “Woman” is not a monolithic identity; neither is “Man.”
Dudes, if you’re new here, please take a look around. Read some posts, read some comment threads. If you’re here to be an ally, welcome! If you’re here to respond with the equivalent of “nuh-UH!” then kindly move along. The web is a big place.
Point # 2:
Q: I’d like to comment on one of your posts. What are your rules?
A: We are too lazy to moderate comments too heavily, and we would like to encourage a fairly freewheeling form of discourse. We reserve the right to delete your comment if we find it offensive or boring, regardless of your First Amendment right to be a boring, offensive internet jerk. These are, of course, subjective standards, but as PilgrimSoul would tell you, if you think rules are objective anyway you’ve clearly never been to law school.
But we were all commenters on a blog once, and so, in order to give you some idea of things we find offensive and boring, here are some parameters
- Sexist/racist/ableist/classist/homophobic language;
- Personal narratives that, while undoubtedly cathartic for the writer, do not really advance or even necessarily relate to the discussion at hand;
- Petulant self-justification: “But I am [insert characteristic], and I’m a good person!”
- Comments indicating a profound lack of self-awareness: “Everybody who writes for this website is such a hypocrite, hiding behind an anonymous name and all!”
I’d like to add that walking into the midst of a conversation (which is what a thread is) and addressing a group of women you don’t know as “ladies” is a clear indication that someone is ’bout to do some mansplainin’. Tone can be difficult to determine in type, but the contempt dripping off “ladies” when used this way can short out your keyboard. If you want to challenge an idea, there are acceptable ways to do so. Please consider the following phrases:
Well, I don’t know if I agree with the general perspective here…
I think there might more effective ways of dealing with the problem…
I feel like we also need to consider X or Y or Z…
If your comment provokes two or more responses that ask you to clarify yourself, you need to clarify yourself. Lashing out makes you look like a giant shitweasel. Swanning off in a huff makes you look like a giant douchehound. If you really want to engage, engage. If you want to drop by to Set the Record Straight on How Things Are (see also: mansplaining), you will be invited to leave.
Saying “deal with it,” or “that’s just the way it is,” is not a comment. It is a command. It is a declaration to other readers and the editors to “shut it, your thoughts and feelings on this issue don’t matter,” or “your feeble efforts are laughably hopeless.” If you say these things: YOU ARE NOT AN ALLY. GET THE FUCK OFF MY SITE.
Each Harpy is free to moderate her own threads as she chooses, but we don’t suffer fools gladly, and certainly none of us is afraid to Be a Bitch. With our readers, commenters, and guest posters, we’ve created a community which we are interested in both growing and protecting.
I want readers and commenters. And I want lively discussion, not ideological lockstep. But if you come to my party and shit in the punchbowl, don’t be surprised when you’re given the bum’s rush, double-plus quick.
Well bless my stars. Whatever could have brought this on?
Not any one comment-shitstorm in particular, Yvane–there’s just been this weird onslaught of troll-y and douche-y comments from men in the last week or so. We’ve had a slew of them–many on posts that were several months old.
Thanks to the moderation function on WordPress, y’all have been spared most of them.
Well, if you ladies will insist on talking about things that happen during football games, you just have to deal with men explaining how you’re wrong about misogyny being directed at women. Because football is for men, and that’s just the way it is.
@Becky But we’re going to get a compilation of greatest hits at some point…right?
Just kidding. I think I’d rather continue to be in the “spared” category.
@Meg: If they were entertaining, yes! We do love to mock. Unfortunately, most are just douche-y.
If you ladies would like to really learn about comment moderating…
oh wait! nevermind.
I thank you guys for bein’ the Bitches up in the comments. I like sites with strict commenting policies. Shapely Prose has very strict guidelines and yet a wonderful commenting atmosphere.
I hate masculinity.
Would it be off-topic to tell you how much I enjoy this blog?
I really appreciate your comment policies, and frankly like reading far more than commenting. I feel like I learn more.
Reading over that first question I sort of realize we should adjust the wording to be less biologically essentialist. Bad me.
You mean to include men who don’t have penises?
Well, there’s that. Also it seems slightly trans-insensitive to me right now.
I think you guys are just great, and I appreciate the fact you maintain this blog which requires you to wade through so much doucheyness. You all are a bastion of sanity, thoughtfulness and self-awareness in a world that often makes my head come near to exploding. Keep on keepin’ on.
I think if you try to modify it to include every possible permutation of male, masculine, male-identified, etc, it’ll seem so long and overly qualified as to be both comical and useless as a FAQ.
Yeah, I would just like to make clear that our definition of “woman” isn’t dependent on genitalia.
At least, mine isn’t. I doubt anyone else’s here is either.
Hmm, maybe just fodder for a post.
Perhaps “I socially construct myself as in possession of a penis” would satisfy my needless anxiety.
How about: “I self-identify as male. Am I welcome here?”
I agree with Tall-in-Heels, I think that is a much better way to phrase the questions without creating a hugely long constantly in need of updating requirement.
Also I actually really enjoy reading the comments here and thanks so much for not requiring the overconsumption of sanity points in order to do so.
That’s a good solution, Tall. Or we could just say “I am male. Am I welcome here.” assuming that if people self-identify with that sentence, then that’s what they are?
Becky: First off, I am trying to see this from a trans person’s perspective, and since I’m not trans, we have a problem already. I don’t want to try to speak on behalf of others’ who have experiences that I will never have. This comment is just based on discussions I’ve read, and language I’ve seen used on other forums, and I’m aware that I could be really wrong about this!
Simply saying “I am male” would be great if we lived in a perfect world where biological/gender essentialism didn’t rule the day, and a person’s own identification was accepted without question. But we don’t live in such a world, and my worry is that “I am male” leaves too much room for ambiguity. I worry that some (not all) trans men might read that and think something along the lines of, “I am male, but I know that a great many people would deem me female solely because of the genitalia I have (or once had). Is this a space where my own identification is accepted, or is this a space where the predominant way of thinking is in force?” This could be especially true to newcomers who are not yet familiar with the site and the authors’ desire that this be a safe space for all human beings.
I think that adding the qualifier “identify” or “self-identify” might send the message that this is a space where, although it is recognized that our society generally has essentialist and exclusionary views concerning gender and sex, here those views are rejected, and people are free to identify how they see fit.
Does that make any sense, or am I over thinking this or really off-base?
So, I just went back and read some of the comments in question…um, WTF? If you’re going to be a mansplainer, at least make a minimum of sense while you’re doing it.
Also, I love ladybloggers. Yay!
@Tall-in-heels: Well, as I told PSoul, I think there’s a lot of overthinking going on here and we’re in danger of losing the point altogether, which is that you don’t have to be a woman–cis or otherwise–to be welcome on this site.
If someone says “I’m male”, that’s good enough for me. I believe that people have the right to identify themselves however they want, and we should respect that. So “I self-identify as male” seems redundant to me, since I don’t think his credibility hangs on whether others would identify him that way or not. You are who you say you are, IMO.
“If someone says ‘I’m male’, that’s good enough for me.”
I know it’s good enough for you
That’s because I know at least a little something about you and the other Harpies. Asking someone who is new here to simply assume that about you is asking them, IMO, to make an assumption that is not always safe to make in this world. That said, it is, of course, the Harpies’ decision about what language to use, and I greatly appreciate the efforts you all make to keep this a tolerant and welcoming space!
Okay, you got me, Tall!
Maybe I’m oversimplifying because it’s obvious to me what the question intends. I’m also personally allergic to long, drawn-out, overly-qualified verbiage.
Maybe we’ll just change it to something straightforward and non-essentialist like “I am not a woman. Am I welcome here?”
I can recall ONE male comment recently on an older post that had the tell-tale “Ladies” in it.
Being a trans woman, I’m all for emphasizing trans inclusiveness. I still found the penis reference funny. But I’m also already familiar with the trans-positive norms of the blog.
Why not put one of those asterisk-footnote disclaimers on the word “penis”? Done right, those can retain the light tone while clarifying the ambiguous meaning.
Hey, this might be the first time I’ve commented here – I read like six feminist blogs, so I forget which ones I comment at… Hi y’all.
This is probably totally unhelpful, but I read the headline and was like “What if I’m somehow in possession of someone else’s penis? Should I give it back before I comment?”
@Emily: Hi! Welcome!
@MKP: Well, I think that depends on how you came to be in possession of someone else’s penis. I mean, if you just found it on the sidewalk or something…finders keepers. But if you borrowed it, the owner probably expects you to return it.
@BeckySharper
What if it’s being held for ransome?
MKP: Your comment instantly called to mind the song “Detachable Penis,” which, if I’m remembering right, is about a guy with a detachable penis who lost it at a party but was too drunk to remember where he left it. Or something!
@OceanBreeze: I think if you were holding it for ransom, you’d probably be able to get whatever you wanted!
Hi! Just turned up here from Tiger Beatdown, and since I’m the target audience for the post, I thought I’d offer my two cents.
I like the original wording best, for two reasons.
One, it’s punchier. From the half-dozen posts I’ve read so far, that seems to fit with the style of the site. And since the goal of a FAQ is to get we noobs quickly up to speed, punchy is a big plus.
Two, it’s a great lead-in to the issues that people have raised in the comments. For example, next FAQ item could be “Wait, is having a penis really the issue?” There are a lot of places you could take it from there.