Actually, no, not all countries try to instil patriotism, not everybody loves their country, not everyone thinks patriotism is a good thing. I’m from Germany and our relationship with our country is, um, a wee bit different than you seem to be expecting (I will just point at Germany’s history over the past century here…) Our general attitude is less “yay Germany!” and more “um, if you vaguely hint you might like this country it’s just another step to breaking out the swastikas”; this may have changed a bit since the World Cup but we’re a far cry from so much as commonly celebrating our national holiday. I essentially considered the word “patriot” an insult for the longest time and although I’m slowly reconsidering it in general I’d still be offended if you applied it to me.

And coming from this background, speaking as someone who lived in the US for six years – US patriotism flat-out terrifies me. Trust me, it is NOT something everyone does.

And yeah, as a German living in the UK, I was going “right on!” to all of Chally’s post. The US-dominance gets seriously frustrating, both RL and in the blogosphere. I discovered recently that I’d somehow absorbed the attitude that I shouldn’t bother to seek out German-speaking feminist blogs because all the *important* issues got covered in the English-language blogs and of course German feminism must be lagging behind US feminism anyway because the US was at the forefront of the world. And I know where I absorbed that from.

1) It strikes me that as in most situations where one is considering an experience not one’s own, it’s a little out of place to declare that all other places are “just like” America in their adoption and/or definition of patriotism unless you were raised/have substantial experience of those places. What you’ve read or seen on brief tourist visits doesn’t seem to me to count – much as one can walk away from a trip to say Disneyland with a very narrow and shallow view of American culture, one can walk away from a few trips to Paris with a very narrow and shallow view of French culture.

2) If you have arrived in this thread to make a point about capitalism, please note that people have discussed this above and respond accordingly. I understand and respect your argument, but I don’t think we get anywhere by repeating ourselves.

3) Finally, this thread has made me realize that perhaps some of our readers are not that familiar with the arguments about American cultural imperialism that are common in other cultures. I would ask that rather than simply offering your view that this “doesn’t exist,” you respect the fact that the issue of cultural imperialism is very important to other cultures and thus try to listen a little to that perspective before coming to that conclusion.

Thanks.

(2) Also not sure why tone is not a valid point of discussion. To me, both the positive and negative aspects of it are useful to notice. On one hand, frustration given a free rein turns a lot of people’s ears off, and often speaks to whether the writer has been thoughtful about taking responsibility for her own reactions. On the other hand, “asking nicely doesn’t always get the job done,” a wise older woman once said to me. Sometimes the one who doesn’t ask nicely is the one who finally turns the conversation in a new direction, and someone with the courage and clarity to do that should be celebrated.

(3) Further not sure why American economic, cultural, and thought hegemony is an issue that the US is blamed exclusively for. In a global economy, that is the height of disingenuity. (is that a word?) I hate our crappy TV as much as you do. Don’t watch it and it will go away, like Conan at 11:35. Or, be consistent and get busy being outraged at every country that has a corner on any market. Myself, I’m working up a pretty good snit about Denmark and their clean-energy hegemony, because it makes my gas-guzzling American minivan look even dumber than it already did. Who the Chrysler do they think they are?

As a twenty year old “USian” relatively well off and well educated (or at least working on it) I’m having a little trouble understanding where the rage is directed. There are a lot of different issues at work, some that have nothing at all to do with the attitudes of the average US citizen, and some that have everything to do with it.

First of all, the fact that most companies from the US have taken over the local economy is a basic result of capitalization. I realize that this is a Western based ideal (and a touchy subject to most) but the fact is that these companies are allowed to expand to the highest of heights with no (or extremely little) limits, and few people understand the negative effects of that. I’m not sure who to be angry at for that, since most (I think?) countries have bought into it voluntarily. It would be a lie to say that all have as “we” (the typical USians, whoever they may be) hate those who haven’t, but that might be a different story than places who already had a Western culture, like Canada, Australia, etc.

And then there’s that other little thing called patriotism that seems to be so upsetting to others. Doesn’t everyone love their country? Why is that not okay? I can be disappointed that my government makes certain decisions (hello Guantanamo, way to go Iraq, let’s get this show on the road, universal health care) but I was under the basic impression that every country tried to instill a certain amount of patriotism in its citizens. Maybe some are better at doing that than others, but I feel like the main thing about US patriotism is that we’re capable of being louder about it, since our economy has a history of domination (though that’ll probably be over soon enough) – back to capitalism. I don’t think it’s all that different from the attitudes of citizens from other countries, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I mean, come on – what’s wrong with Thanksgiving? Doesn’t Canada have it’s own form of the harvesting holiday? And so we have Independence Day – Mexico has an independence day too! The French have Bastille day! I don’t think any American expects other countries to care about our culture’s special holidays.

Finally, though the US culture has a basic isolationist tenet that is influential and is in the minds of the people dating from our reluctance to enter WWII until Pearl Harbor happened. There’s a “not our country, not our problem” thing going on that is more prevalent I think in some areas than others. Lack of education does have a lot to do with it as well – I feel like the only people that would be surprised that foreign countries have soda and wear jeans are generally uneducated.

So I guess given my long and rambling comment, my basic point is this: with all these issues at work, who’s really at fault for this? What is anyone supposed to do about it? Because I think anger at the general population of US citizens is misdirected and basically unhelpful.

Thanks for the list- will print it off for future reference. Now if only I could find a Coles, Woolworths or 7/11 store that that regularly stocked more than two or three of those brands..I’m sure the aussies reading this blog will understand what I’m talking about!

Not one?

And as for how Americans tend to point out how they are individually different when confronted by ill fitting stereotypes– we’re a culture of individuality, we’re raised to think of ourselves as unique individual snowflakes, and right… Frankly, being an American is a privilege in the same way that me being visibly a white male is a privilege.

Also, discussions about the tone of Chally’s post should have no reflection on you, her tone overrides her point, which is why so many people take issue with it. Also, we yanks have no sense of humour. (And that was me trying humour, as I would never call myself a yank in all seriousness.)

Immersion in other cultures is really the only way to fully develop a sense of cultural differences and respect. As Americans, we aren’t really forced to immerse ourselves. I think, possibly, my university being in Northern California was an immersion compared to my entire life before that in suburban Texas. Thus, I was more prepared for going abroad and encountering new cultures. I still make a tasteless joke from time to time, but I figure that is less my privilege and more my failure at humour.

Yes, we can be US-centric. We’re also more likely to be individualistic and selfish. But we’re not that much more so than other peoples.

The fact of the matter is that there are so many more US blogs. Analogy: When you are on a US blog, although you may be sitting in your own part of the world, you are, in essence, in an American living room, discussing a topic of interest to the owner of that home. Of course the lens will be different – as frustrating as that can sometimes be, that is in many ways the nature of international discourse. That said, as any host knows, it is preferrable to be a least somewhat of who your guests are, so as not to offend too badly. On the internet, though, that becomes almost impossible…a blog is accessible by everyone, anywhere, anytime. So, respectfully-worded cross-education may be required (and isn’t that a great thing!)

It is great, too, to have people originally from different countries/or who really know in depth about a different county to be one of the bloggers (as occurs on Harpyness). International guest bloggers and international commentators can also add a view through a different lens. How about international Harpies-follower offer to guest blog about a country-specific topic or a view through a different lens? I think that there are probably many stories/issues from many countries that could use a little harpy-analysis. And what a great way to introduce each other to different lenses!

Australian Soft Drinks:

Bickford’s (full line of juices, sodas, teas, and bottled water)[1]
Bundaberg (family owned producer of Bundaberg Ginger Beer)
Cottee’s (brand of cordial drinks, owned by Cadbury-Schweppes)
Count Cola (now discontinued brand of soda)
Farmers Union Iced Coffee (popular flavored milk drink)
Golden Circle (brand of carbonated beverages)
Kirks (line of sodas marketed by Coca-Cola Amatil)
Gest (line of sodas purchased by Coca-Cola Amatil and discontinued)
LA Ice Cola (cola available in four varieties)
Leed (carbonated lemonade)
Lido
McSars
McMahons soft drinks (popular family run soft drink company in Ipswich West St Qld 1934-late 80′s, founded by Frank McMahon)
Passiona (passionfruit-flavored soft drink available from Cadbury-Schweppes)
PipeLime
Pub Squash
Saxby’s – possum juices, thirst quencher.
Solo – lemon-flavoured, owned by Cadbury Schweppes lightly carbonated for fast drinking after hard work or exercise in Australia’s hot climate and marketed as such.
Schweppes a range of mineral water/fruit juice drinks developed in Australia, with flavours that include orange-mango, and lemon, lime and orange.

There you go.