This month, local news stations in Washington D.C. reported on a protest by Muslim women at the Islamic Center of Washington, who demanded the right to worship in the Center’s main prayer hall. The police were called and the women asked to leave.
But they say their struggle will continue. The source of contention is a small room created with seven foot high wooden walls. Jannah B’int Hannah describes how she feels in there where she cannot see the imam, or leader of the mosque, speak.
“Boxed in, stifling, suffocating and totally a second class citizen,” says Hannah.
The movement to integrate Muslim prayer spaces–two out of three U.S. mosques are segregated–has been ramping up in the past few years, led in part by Asra Nomani, an American Muslim journalist and feminist activist.
“We have this generation of American Muslim women who are saying look you want us to go to Harvard, to rise to the highest level of Wall Street firms and you want us to sit where in the mosque?,” says Nomani.
Why keep women confined to a separate and unequal prayer space?:
Syed Burmi, the imam of Islamic Society of Western Maryland, says the physical separation helps maintain women’s privacy and modesty as well as keeps the focus on prayer.
“If I stand next to a lady or a woman stands next to me, maybe the focus will change and no longer be on God the Almighty. So that’s why we put the partition.”
Imam Burmi seems to believe that men’s dicks act like compass needles–automatically swinging towards the nearest vagina, which somehow demagnetizes their brains. Never mind that adult men are perfectly capable of focusing their attention on things other than sex; they do it all the time at work, when shopping, when attending social events, etc. But religious leaders feel men must be incapable of that same restraint when in a house of prayer.As a Jewish woman, I’m intimately familiar with this rationale; it’s the same one used by Orthodox Jews, who also relegate women to a separate area–usually a gallery or balcony above the sanctuary–so that they cannot easily be seen by the men worshipping on the floor.
Segregationists insist that the mere presence of women’s bodies in the same prayer space as men is ungodly. Forget that God Almighty is present in women–including those men’s mothers, wives, sisters and daughters. Forget that Muslim women worship side by side with men at Mecca’s Masjid al-Haram, the holiest site in Islam. (Unlike Jewish women, who are segregated at our holy sites in Jerusalem, and have been threatened and attacked during attempts to integrate).
The arguments for gender segregation during worship are irrational and fundamentally indefensible, as well as insulting to both men and women. And yet, segregation persists, and women are forced to stake their claim to equality over and over again.
When Asra Nomani led the move to integrate the mosque in her hometown of Morgantown, West Virginia, she and her parents received death threats. But she persevered, launching the “Muslim Women’s Freedom Tour,” which travels from city to city encouraging women to speak out in favor of integration, and take leadership roles in their mosques.
“It’s about time,” says religious scholar and historian Reza Aslan. “This conception of the separation of men and women is something that never occurred during the prophet’s lifetime.” He adds, “What she has done is perfectly in line with Islamic values, traditions and the prophet’s own desire to have men and women working side by side, praying side by side and even fighting side by side.”
Asra Nomani’s Indian-born father agrees:
“Muhammad was one of the greatest feminists. Islam first gave rights to women 1,400 years ago. . . . When I see Islam today and the way people behave towards women, I am very sad. I am for women’s rights, respect, women’s equality. Islam teaches that.”
As long as women are insulted and excluded by religious authorities, and barred from worshipping openly with their male relatives and neighbors, their religious communities–be they Muslim or Jewish–fall short of true oneness with God.
Oh, the irony that deadly enemies like Jewish and Muslim extremists have much more in common in the way they see the Other than they would ever admit. For these men, there can only be one way to relate to God, one type of body that is acceptable, one kind of sexual/romantic relationship that is permitted. Anything else is a dire threat to their world views, because for them it’s their way or no way.
Becky, when you say that “adult men are perfectly capable of focusing their attention on things other than sex; they do it all the time at work, when shopping, when attending social events, etc.”, you raise an important point. Although men can separate themselves from their sexual impulses, in reality, women are free from the possibility of harassment at none of these occasions. To the extent that women can feel safe from harassment, it is our success (I’m including male feminists here) in applying social pressure that has protected us. Religion seems to be the last bastion of untrammeled male control. But we’ve succeeded in changing standards of behavior everywhere else, and sooner or later we’ll do it here too, even if we have to create our own worship spaces.
On this topic, today in Israel our friends the Women of the Wall are celebrating the holiday of Purim, which commemorates Queen Esther’s heroism in saving the Jews of Persia from extinction. Let’s hope that they are able to worship in peace.
You can’t rationally argue out what was irrationally argued in. But more power to these women. I love the Harvard/Wall St. argument, and the compass needle too. Is that original to you, Becky?
Very well put. I think part of the problem is that the Abrahmic religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) all have at their core the idea of an unambiguously male God, the idea that there is nothing feminine or female in the divine. (I remember when I was younger, and I referred the the Holy Spirit as female, and my mother didn’t freak out or anything but could only imagine the Spirit as female. To me that had always made sense- that there was God the father, and the Spirit the mother, and Jesus the child.)
I think this denial of any kind of female divinity is a problem when dealing with these religions, and I think the idea that somehow women are intruding into a men’s space when they worship has some root in it.
@MM you know, there’s a thesis in there somewhere when you say we should create our own worship spaces.
When women do exactly that, via New Age or Wicca or yoga or what have you, these practices are derided.
How much of that is due to the newness of them, and the hassles all religious innovations face, and how much is due to outright sexism/patriarchy?
PS I am not implying that yogic practices are new.
I am always at a loss when I hear about things like this. I am not religious myself, and don’t fully understand women who subject themselves to virulently misogynist systems (as most organized religions are). I’m not referring to any woman born into a society or country that compels religion, of course.
At the same time, I have no right to tell these women that their thoughts and beliefs are unworthy or less valid than mine- women get too much of that coming from men so they sure as hell don’t need it from me. What is the best way to support other women when you have a fundamental difference in belief?
@rodriguez: Yep, the compass needle is mine. The image seems so apt.
@magpie_seven: There are several Hebrew names for God that are feminine (Hebrew being a gendered language), including Shechinah (which refers to the “indwelling” presence of God) and Shaddai (whose linguistic root shad is the same as the word shaddayim meaning breast, and which refers to the bounty and fertility of God’s creation). Judaism is definitely patriarchial, but there are a lot of mystical and scriptural traditions within it that are decidedly female-gendered and female-empowered. The Patriarchy doesn’t want to focus on those aspects of religion, because it enhances women’s claim to equality and divinity, but a lot of us are determined to reclaim them.
@Magpie_Seven: When Jewish mysticism began in the early part of the Christian Era, it took on a strongly feminine character. In Kabbalah, the divine has both female and male aspects. The female is called the Shechinah, and it has been adopted into all streams of Judaism. It is the indwelling presence of God, as opposed to the remote God-as-King aspect.
@rodriguez: I’d say that they may start out derided, but as often as not, they become accepted and beloved. Jewish feminism has created rituals and practices that were resisted vigorously at first, and now are part and parcel of much of Judaism. And ultimately, who cares what anyone else thinks? If we’re practicing our beliefs in a way that makes sense to us and doesn’t hurt anyone else, that’s all we need. Anyone who doesn’t like it can suck it up.
@Dillene: I take your point, but I’d also argue that our political and social systems are just as virulently misogynistic. Why should we give up what is ours by right? If we choose to try to remake those systems to reflect our reality and our contributions, we are entitled to do so rather than leaving those systems behind. As for supporting what you don’t believe in, you can support the effort and the desire to make a space of our own without endorsing the content thereof, right?
@dillene: We all live in Patriarchial world, and religion is just a part of that. Everyone has to make the compromises and choices she feels most comfortable with.
You can choose a less Patriarchial religion, or you can choose to practice a more egalitarian version of a Patriarchial religion (as I do). Or you can choose to reform your religion from within and fight to claim your rights, as Asra Nomani is doing.
To answer your question What is the best way to support other women when you have a fundamental difference in belief? my answer is usually just to mind your own business. I spent four years in a Southern college where people routinely tried to convert me to Christianity. In most cases they had the absolute best intentions–they truly thought I was in error and needed their help. For me to press my liberal, feminist belief onto others is just as obnoxious…so I say nothing. I might tell them I don’t agree with them, but I don’t tell them that they’re wrong and need to change.
I empathize, dillene. You describe why I left the RC Church. But, people do stay, and work for change from the inside. I find those people admirable, if not comprehensible. We’re all stuck inside the patriarchy regardless, I suppose.
Somebody else linked to a technical paper (fre e abstract only) http://rra.hartsem.edu/abstracts47-2.htm, about Catholic women that accept the misogyny, and Catholic women who quit, and finally those who do not accept and attempt to work it out. The bulk of the paper is about them. They’re the most interesting of the three groups, from some angles.
@rodriguez: I’ll definitely read that. I have a good friend who has been a Catholic nun for 40 years. She’s stayed when nearly all her peers have left (both their religious orders and, in some cases, the Church itself). She’s very feminist and basically digs into the scriptures and the writings of the women of the Church–especially Julian of Norwich–and draws out all the buried feminist traditions. She also flat-out reveres and cultifies female saints, particularly the Virgin Mary–which generations of women choose to do as a way around the patriarchial nastiness of the institutional church.
Even in Patriarchial religions like the Abrahamic faiths, there’s a LOT of female influence and many righteous women who are worth our attention and reverence. They have their own important heritage of writing, thought, reforming and communing with the Divine. I don’t want to lose them by turning my back on religion altogether.
I left the Catholic church largely because of its anti-women beliefs, but I do admire the courage of those women who are willing to fight centuries of tradition and authority to make their faiths more egalitarian. I think it can only be a good thing for everyone, believers and non-believers alike.
I totally get it. But I come out of fundamentlist churches where the women sit on one side of the church and are NOT to be heard put out an “Amen” after a particularly stirring bit. Where they cover their heads because women who pray with uncovered heads are dishonoring themselves, their husbands and God.
I learned from puberty on I was a stumbling block to male virtue. That simply sitting quietly in a room, in a shapeless dress, was distracting to the boys in the Bible study. Now, I imperil my husband’s soul by my mere existance.
So, this sort of thing doesn’t surprise me at all. You find a more liberal branch of your faith or you find a new faith.
you can choose to practice a more egalitarian version of a Patriarchial religion
Thats pretty much how this particular man feels. I found a southern baptist church that equally values all congregation members, and its a blend of mens fraternity, womens ministry, and co-ed opportunities. As an old hippy I used to call ‘patriarchy’ the ‘establishment’, its organized tradition that had some of us men whether we wanted to or not leading everything (some loved that of course, still do) I do however believe if a person NEEDS physical separation to adequately pray then they should recieve it. Relationships take a time investment, and sometimes me personally, I have to do whatever’s necessary to ensure I can get that without distraction.
I do however believe if a person NEEDS physical separation to adequately pray then they should recieve it.
If someone needs physical separation in order to pray, he or she is welcome to remove themselves–not force everyone else to leave.
Yeah, Joe, not to pile on, but if you’re in a restaurant and someone is being loud and acting up, do you leave or do you expect the restaurant to kick the troublemaker out?
You can pray alone pretty much anywhere and anytime you want to. When you want to pray in community, then you should respect the community as a whole.
Excellent post!
It’s striking to me just how similar the idea that men are at the beck and call of their compass cocks (Becky, I love that phrase!) while in religious spaces, and therefore all the impetus is upon women to cover and separate themselves, is to the standard rape apologia. Namely, that men simply can’t help themselves when in the presence of a woman who is drunk or wearing a short skirt, and therefore all the impetus is upon the woman to change her behavior and dress. It’s the same darn thing! Those poor, helpless, men with just one tiny brain simply can’t control themselves, so us women have to shelter them by dressing meekly, not walking alone at night, not standing next to them in church, etc. etc.
So in response to Dillene, I would say that women fighting this misogyny within the church is just a different form of the same fight us non-religious feminists (and religious feminists alike) are fighting against misogyny in the public sphere. As an agnostic I may not be personally invested in the fight for women’s rights within the tabernacle or mosque, but any step that helps women anywhere – and educating a few men in the process – helps women everywhere.
@rodriguez – I’d also point out that Wicca is not a new religion either. Even as it’s practiced today it dates back to the 1800s, but ultimately it dates back to pre-Christian practices in northern Europe, notably amongst the Celts. In my impression it’s derided largely because it’s a) commonly misunderstood in terms of cartoonish witches and magic spells on the one hand, and Satanism on the other; and b) female-dominated.
Great post, Becky! Stories like this always leave me wondering why some men are so eager to characterize themselves as driven by their genitalia. If I were a man, I would find this sort of argument more than a little insulting. If men are the “stronger sex,” why can’t they hold it together when a woman is in the room? I have never had problems concentrating in church just because there are boyz! there.
@ausgezeichnet: Right? It really is insulting to men, but it’s always easier to blame someone else (women) than take responsibility for your own actions.
Oh, and dillene, when I said “mind your own business” I totally wasn’t being high-school bitchy. I meant it as “if you don’t agree, just ignore.” We’re not individually obligated to support EVERY feminist action/cause, but we should let everyone operate in her own sphere of influence, including religion.
Actually, I got into a pretty intense discussion about Jewish gender segregation this weekend. I was at a Hillel (Jewish college org) convention, where there were a lot of very religious people. One of my friends is very Orthodox and Shomer N’giyah (obeying the laws against touching people of other genders), and she got very upset about a service the Orthodox group had where a woman read from the Torah. I totally understand her point of view, but I also disagree with it.
What was good, though, was the way that some of the services were set up. They more Orthodox services had three sections: male, female, and mixed. I think that’s a great compromise for the situation. The problem, of course, is getting people to agree to it.
Women could tear down the walls that segregate them — or they could stop giving in to this whole religion bullshit. That’s what I’d do if I were one. And, unlike Dillene, I wouldn’t hesitate to denounce this giant scam because allegedly “I have no right to tell these women that their thoughts and beliefs are unworthy or less valid than mine.” Religious belief is unworthy of respect, and it’s less valid that secularist worldviews. These are facts. It’s no disrespect to anyone to point out facts.
@vegkitty: Tough. They don’t own the Torah.
And Orthodoxy is changing out from under her, so she’d better be careful. There’s an Orthodox seminary in Israel that’s ordaining women, and I believe that in my lifetime I’ll see Orthodox girls leining Torah when they become bat mitzvah.
@desargues: Religious belief is unworthy of respect, and it’s less valid that secularist worldviews. These are facts. It’s no disrespect to anyone to point out facts.
No. Those are your opinions.
And since this is your first time commenting on this site, I suggest you read our FAQs about commenting.
@vegkitty: I know, I have found myself in that situation several times. When I talk with women from those very restrictive Orthodox backgrounds, I understand that they’re uncomfortable because seeing women in leadership roles in a synagogue is new and a bit alarming to them, so I usually ask a lot of leading questions: “Maybe YOU don’t want to read Torah, but what if I do? Am I not smart enough? Are men more important than me so that’s why they get to read Torah? Does God think I’m less important?” A lot of times they can’t come up with a better answer than “That’s the way it is!” or “That’s the way we do it!” To which I always say, “Well, that’s not the way I do it” and “Plenty of Jewish women read Torah, so that IS, in fact, the way we do it.” One of the things I love about Judaism is that there are lots of ways to do it!
I’ve been to egalitarian Orthodox congregations where men sat on one side of the aisle and women sat on the other. It’s not my preference, but I can live with it. That strikes me as far less demeaning than women being literally put out of site in a balcony.
I don’t see myself in any violation of the explicit rules in the FAQ section. As to the supposed equality of worth between religious and rationalist worldviews, the burden of proof is not on me. I certainly have no intention to argue for my point, since it’s overwhelmingly plausible. A defender of phlogiston chemistry or the vortex theory of planetary motions surely cannot expect her discredited views to be on a par with contemporary science. Religion is no different. In fact, it’s in a worse situation. Refuted past scientific theories at least had some facts on their side. Fairy tales about invisible friends in the sky never had any to support them.
Desargues, I suggest you reread this: We reserve the right to delete your comment if we find it offensive or boring, regardless of your First Amendment right to be a boring, offensive internet jerk. These are, of course, subjective standards, but as PilgrimSoul would tell you, if you think rules are objective anyway you’ve clearly never been to law school.
Everyone else in this comment thread is being entirely respectful of each other’s religious beliefs or lack thereof. You, on the other hand, show up and declare that you don’t have to respect anyone’s religious beliefs because they are–in your opinion–unworthy of respect. And then you condescend all over the fucking place, like a true Mansplainer.
You’ve made your point. I’ve made mine. If you can’t engage respectfully, you will not be commenting here any longer.
Desargues I think there is a subtle detail you are not addressing. We aren’t discussing the validity of this-n-that, we are talking about those who work on the inside of a system to change it. We already went right up to the edge of that question: Why should a women even stay in a system that oppresses women? And we batted around some answers to that. But ultimately that wasn’t the focus of the post or the discussion.
It seems like that’s where your interest lies, but I don’t think you can forcibly drag the focus back to your point of interest.
It’s probably a sign of just how demonized Muslims have become in mainstream media that, when I got to the end of your post without encountering any vitriol or snark, I was amazed. And relieved. And grateful.
Yes there are actual Muslim feminists and yes Islam has a whole slew of things in common with Judaism and Christianity because it is built on them. And yes Islam was once about giving women rights and protecting them as human beings. But these are things you seldom come across out here in the great wilderness of the intertubes. There is much wrong with religion in general – or the various interpretations of the various religions – but it is nice to see someone address the issues that occur within a community without suggesting that their issues would all resolve themselves if they were just More Like Us (for various values of ‘Us’), and actually engaging with the issue at hand (in good faith even
).
As to the actual content of the post, I think it’s awesome not only that these women are trying to change this structure from within, but that they are getting attention and support for doing so.
Oh and I say all this as an atheist. Simple lack of belief does not immediately free anyone from their religious and cultural identities or situations except those already socially positioned to move beyond them.
rodriguez: Point well taken. I do find interesting the various strategies of taming a system from within, as it were. But only as a sociological topic, as it were. I’m just wondering about the long-term desirability of these approaches versus just moving beyond the whole religion shtick, if the objective is to liberate oppressed groups. Nationalism is also traditionally quite patriarchal. Making it more woman-friendly won’t change much about the fact that it’ll still be one of those “you’re either one of us or a stranger” things.
Maybe I’m just foolishly assuming that this discussion is about religions in which their members actually believe in, not just matters of purely arbitrary choice. I very much like the color brown, but I’d never dream of trying to persuade other people to like it, guide a portion of my life by it, or demand that my fondness for it be respected. It’s just a thing I like, completely subjective and arbitrary. Were we talking about religion in that sense?
Becky: Sorry, I don’t do god. I can’t really see how it’s different from astrology. A good day to you all.
@Nadia: Ugh, it sucks that you have that sense of dread and anticipation when doing your daily reading. I’m glad you liked how this post turned out.
I know more about Judaism and Christianity than I know about Islam, but from what I do know, the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was much more overtly woman-friendly and woman-empowering than the prophets of Judaism and Christianity. So what these women are doing is essentially demanding the rights that their religion promises them but which the Patriarchy of their culture has always prevented them from gaining. It’s not a question of them being “more like us” at all. (Because honestly, I don’t think Judaism or Christianity is necessarily the best theology or worldview out there…it just happens to be the one I was born into).
If someone needs physical separation in order to pray, he or she is welcome to remove themselves–not force everyone else to leave.
Exactly what I was thinking, Churches can provide ‘quiet’ rooms, chapels etc . even airports have them. And by all means, they should go to the mountain, not expect the rest of the town to!
@BeckySharper and MM: Thank you for the info about the divine feminine in Judaism! I clearly need to do some more detailed reading- I’m English, and the area I’m from has large Christian and Muslim communities but almost no Jewish presence at all, so when it comes to Judaism I am just not as informed as I should be. I’ll be taking steps to rectify that, and thank you for not piling on when the ignorance was entirely my own fault.
argh. and don’t even get me started on shmuley boteach’s justification for separation in orthodox jewish churches. it’s to protect the unmarried wimminz from feeling badly about their unmarried state of course!
Shmuley Boteach is just a more media-friendly version of the same old Orthodox anti-woman bullshit. He totally skeeves me out.