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	<title>Comments on: Honorary Harpy: Joan Robyns</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-26313</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-26313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Higsart, that is the most ridiculous---and ignorant---pack of generalizations about the Upper South I&#039;ve ever heard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higsart, that is the most ridiculous&#8212;and ignorant&#8212;pack of generalizations about the Upper South I&#8217;ve ever heard.</p>
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		<title>By: Higsart</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-26306</link>
		<dc:creator>Higsart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-26306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those of you who write about the South need to define your terms.
People in the upper south US tend to know their genealogy at least in general terms, to be part Cherokee, to be somewhat indifferent to skin color, to be descended from Union soldiers (Civil War) and old Prebyterians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of you who write about the South need to define your terms.<br />
People in the upper south US tend to know their genealogy at least in general terms, to be part Cherokee, to be somewhat indifferent to skin color, to be descended from Union soldiers (Civil War) and old Prebyterians.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24412</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[part of the Berlin Wall

yes the berlin wall!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>part of the Berlin Wall</p>
<p>yes the berlin wall!</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24402</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Cimorene &amp; philosophyerin: I think that unless you&#039;re part of the upper-crusty South, you&#039;re right about the &quot;you&#039;re either black or white&quot; distinction. In certain circles, having a long Southern lineage is a point of pride--I&#039;ve certainly met folks who bragged about the size of their family&#039;s former plantation, which cotillion circle they belong to, their relations to   the Jeffersons, the Lees, etc. It&#039;s ludicrous. Even if they&#039;re not class snobs, Southerners can be a little obsessive about genealogy; I have multiple relatives in Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution, and those people can go on and ON about where their families are from, etc. My middle name--which I often use--is my mother&#039;s family name, and in some places I get asked &quot;oh, are you related to...&quot; sometimes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cimorene &#038; philosophyerin: I think that unless you&#8217;re part of the upper-crusty South, you&#8217;re right about the &#8220;you&#8217;re either black or white&#8221; distinction. In certain circles, having a long Southern lineage is a point of pride&#8211;I&#8217;ve certainly met folks who bragged about the size of their family&#8217;s former plantation, which cotillion circle they belong to, their relations to   the Jeffersons, the Lees, etc. It&#8217;s ludicrous. Even if they&#8217;re not class snobs, Southerners can be a little obsessive about genealogy; I have multiple relatives in Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution, and those people can go on and ON about where their families are from, etc. My middle name&#8211;which I often use&#8211;is my mother&#8217;s family name, and in some places I get asked &#8220;oh, are you related to&#8230;&#8221; sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Cimorene</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24401</link>
		<dc:creator>Cimorene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ philosophyerin -- I&#039;ve heard this before, too. In the south, you&#039;re either white or black (...I guess there are no other races in the south), but in the north you can be Irish, Polish, Russian, etc. I myself am all three! 

I&#039;m from Buffalo, which is one of the most segregated cities in the country. Not only are we divided by color, but we&#039;re so hardcore about segregation that we go beyond that and segregate into sub-sub categories. I grew up in a Polish suburb, my father is from the Irish ward. When my mother married my father, it was like she was committing a mortal sin, because he was a dirty Irishman and my mother&#039;s Polish family hated him. And my grandmother blames all my bad qualities on him and the Irish blood in me (for real).  

It&#039;s frustrating, because I find the sub-sub sections can be really interesting. Like I kind of like that we have a Polish neighborhood, an Irish one, an Italian one, a Vietnamese one, a West African one (those two are newer than the European-descended ones, which were all founded in the early 1900s). It&#039;s frustrating how much &quot;difference&quot; leads directly to &quot;inequality.&quot;  I live in one of the more diverse neighborhoods in terms of race, but around the corner from one of the most diverse neighborhoods I&#039;ve ever seen in terms of race, culture, and even socio-economic status. That one has everything from recent immigrants from Tibet to lots of Puerto Rican families to college students with ancestors who were in the Revolutionary war, and it&#039;s really awesome. There are groups of kids running around all summer, and all their parents standing on corners watching, talking, grilling out, and all the parents are in totally different kinds of clothes, depending on where they&#039;re from. And all the little kids are, like, wearing Pokemon or Hannah Montana teeshirts. But as the groups of immigrants make more money, they move out to the richer suburbs or away from western new york and become more American and less xxx-American. Leaving behind empty houses, of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ philosophyerin &#8212; I&#8217;ve heard this before, too. In the south, you&#8217;re either white or black (&#8230;I guess there are no other races in the south), but in the north you can be Irish, Polish, Russian, etc. I myself am all three! </p>
<p>I&#8217;m from Buffalo, which is one of the most segregated cities in the country. Not only are we divided by color, but we&#8217;re so hardcore about segregation that we go beyond that and segregate into sub-sub categories. I grew up in a Polish suburb, my father is from the Irish ward. When my mother married my father, it was like she was committing a mortal sin, because he was a dirty Irishman and my mother&#8217;s Polish family hated him. And my grandmother blames all my bad qualities on him and the Irish blood in me (for real).  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s frustrating, because I find the sub-sub sections can be really interesting. Like I kind of like that we have a Polish neighborhood, an Irish one, an Italian one, a Vietnamese one, a West African one (those two are newer than the European-descended ones, which were all founded in the early 1900s). It&#8217;s frustrating how much &#8220;difference&#8221; leads directly to &#8220;inequality.&#8221;  I live in one of the more diverse neighborhoods in terms of race, but around the corner from one of the most diverse neighborhoods I&#8217;ve ever seen in terms of race, culture, and even socio-economic status. That one has everything from recent immigrants from Tibet to lots of Puerto Rican families to college students with ancestors who were in the Revolutionary war, and it&#8217;s really awesome. There are groups of kids running around all summer, and all their parents standing on corners watching, talking, grilling out, and all the parents are in totally different kinds of clothes, depending on where they&#8217;re from. And all the little kids are, like, wearing Pokemon or Hannah Montana teeshirts. But as the groups of immigrants make more money, they move out to the richer suburbs or away from western new york and become more American and less xxx-American. Leaving behind empty houses, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24399</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He brought back part of one of the walls at a concentration camp?  I don&#039;t think they usually encourage people chipping off chunks and walking away with them.  Are you sure it wasn&#039;t part of the Berlin Wall? I hear you can pick up bits and pieces of that for cheap in Germany as souvenirs (although I doubt there&#039;s any way to tell if it&#039;s authentic or not).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He brought back part of one of the walls at a concentration camp?  I don&#8217;t think they usually encourage people chipping off chunks and walking away with them.  Are you sure it wasn&#8217;t part of the Berlin Wall? I hear you can pick up bits and pieces of that for cheap in Germany as souvenirs (although I doubt there&#8217;s any way to tell if it&#8217;s authentic or not).</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24398</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[have found nothing

I&#039;m so sorry Becky, the look on Kudrows face brought back the horror that so many perhaps have forgotten but sounds like you cannot. Frankly I cried that entire show, even at the joy when they found &#039;Yuri&#039; in Poland.  My son visited one of the camps on his trip to Germany and brought back what he claims to be part of the wall - sounds like a religious artifact though (and therfore maybe not real).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>have found nothing</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so sorry Becky, the look on Kudrows face brought back the horror that so many perhaps have forgotten but sounds like you cannot. Frankly I cried that entire show, even at the joy when they found &#8216;Yuri&#8217; in Poland.  My son visited one of the camps on his trip to Germany and brought back what he claims to be part of the wall &#8211; sounds like a religious artifact though (and therfore maybe not real).</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24397</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Joe: I did see that show with Lisa Kudrow--it was really moving.  But unlike her, I can pretty much rule out anyone on my father&#039;s side of the family having survived the Holocaust. Most of our immediate family were in England or New York during WWII. The ones who weren&#039;t were never heard from again. Since nearly all the records of pre-war Jewish communities in Eastern Europe were destroyed, finding paperwork on them before the Holocaust is nearly impossible. To find out what happened to them, my cousins and I have looked in places like Yad Vashem, in Jerusalem, which houses the largest database of testimonials and information about Holocaust victims --approx 3 million of them--and have found nothing. Yad Vashem&#039;s website explains:

&lt;em&gt; Some Jews left no trace. They were murdered with their entire families, so there was no one left to submit Pages of Testimony for them; or they left no documentary traces; or the traces they left were destroyed, either during the war, or afterwards. In the 1960s and 1970s, archivists sometimes burned entire collections of what were perceived, unfortunately, as documents with no lasting value. &lt;/em&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joe: I did see that show with Lisa Kudrow&#8211;it was really moving.  But unlike her, I can pretty much rule out anyone on my father&#8217;s side of the family having survived the Holocaust. Most of our immediate family were in England or New York during WWII. The ones who weren&#8217;t were never heard from again. Since nearly all the records of pre-war Jewish communities in Eastern Europe were destroyed, finding paperwork on them before the Holocaust is nearly impossible. To find out what happened to them, my cousins and I have looked in places like Yad Vashem, in Jerusalem, which houses the largest database of testimonials and information about Holocaust victims &#8211;approx 3 million of them&#8211;and have found nothing. Yad Vashem&#8217;s website explains:</p>
<p><em> Some Jews left no trace. They were murdered with their entire families, so there was no one left to submit Pages of Testimony for them; or they left no documentary traces; or the traces they left were destroyed, either during the war, or afterwards. In the 1960s and 1970s, archivists sometimes burned entire collections of what were perceived, unfortunately, as documents with no lasting value. </em></p>
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		<title>By: philosophyerin</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24394</link>
		<dc:creator>philosophyerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is so cool!  I wish I knew more about my own family&#039;s history, but it&#039;s incredibly difficult to track down.  I&#039;ve actually found that this is true for many people whose families are from the (deep) Southern United States, especially in rural areas.  I have the sense that this is the result of some combination of poverty, disavowed miscegenation/pregnancies resulting from slave rape, and the fact that, once folks made it that far south/inland from points of entry to North America, their families had been away from countries of origin and/or intermarried enough to lose most memory of their roots.  

In fact, one of the things that was most striking to me about moving away from the South was how much more people (especially white people) knew about their ethnic/national origins.  There were several times when I was living in the American Northeast that someone would ask me &quot;where&#039;s your family from&quot; and mean something other than &quot;Louisiana.&quot;  When I got the follow-up, &quot;No, I mean, where are you REALLY from,&quot; it was always pretty bewildering.  Maybe this experience was unique to me, but my youth in the South was dominated by the sense that one&#039;s racial classification (i.e., black or white, since most people pretended that no other classification was possible) was all that mattered, and most people didn&#039;t know much beyond this.  Oh, except for the white kids who liked to make vague claims about being &quot;part native American&quot; to seem more interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so cool!  I wish I knew more about my own family&#8217;s history, but it&#8217;s incredibly difficult to track down.  I&#8217;ve actually found that this is true for many people whose families are from the (deep) Southern United States, especially in rural areas.  I have the sense that this is the result of some combination of poverty, disavowed miscegenation/pregnancies resulting from slave rape, and the fact that, once folks made it that far south/inland from points of entry to North America, their families had been away from countries of origin and/or intermarried enough to lose most memory of their roots.  </p>
<p>In fact, one of the things that was most striking to me about moving away from the South was how much more people (especially white people) knew about their ethnic/national origins.  There were several times when I was living in the American Northeast that someone would ask me &#8220;where&#8217;s your family from&#8221; and mean something other than &#8220;Louisiana.&#8221;  When I got the follow-up, &#8220;No, I mean, where are you REALLY from,&#8221; it was always pretty bewildering.  Maybe this experience was unique to me, but my youth in the South was dominated by the sense that one&#8217;s racial classification (i.e., black or white, since most people pretended that no other classification was possible) was all that mattered, and most people didn&#8217;t know much beyond this.  Oh, except for the white kids who liked to make vague claims about being &#8220;part native American&#8221; to seem more interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Endora</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/03/20/honorary-harpy-joan-robyns/comment-page-1/#comment-24392</link>
		<dc:creator>Endora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=14269#comment-24392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s so interesting!  I&#039;d love to know more about my family, but we were the kind of people (very poor, in rural Ireland until the 1920s/40s) that don&#039;t seem to count for records at all.  One of my grandmothers doesn&#039;t know her own mother&#039;s birthday! I guess they just didn&#039;t really celebrate them (she doesn&#039;t even know what her own real birthday is, she only knows the day she was baptized, which was probably a few days after).  No one in my family can trace anything beyond even my great-grandparents.

A lot of this stuff seems to cost a lot more than my fairly meager budget will allow, so I think I might have to wait a while before I can indulge my curiosity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s so interesting!  I&#8217;d love to know more about my family, but we were the kind of people (very poor, in rural Ireland until the 1920s/40s) that don&#8217;t seem to count for records at all.  One of my grandmothers doesn&#8217;t know her own mother&#8217;s birthday! I guess they just didn&#8217;t really celebrate them (she doesn&#8217;t even know what her own real birthday is, she only knows the day she was baptized, which was probably a few days after).  No one in my family can trace anything beyond even my great-grandparents.</p>
<p>A lot of this stuff seems to cost a lot more than my fairly meager budget will allow, so I think I might have to wait a while before I can indulge my curiosity.</p>
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