Caveat: you get what you pay for.
Welcome to the second installment of Help Me, Harpies! You can read the first here.
Reader A explains:
I have a problem with my boyfriend and his younger sister. I would greatly appreciate some Harpy help and insight. (And I’m really sorry that this is so long.) Here it goes…
The sister is one year younger than me (21), all three of us live in a small college town, and I’ve been with my dude for 2 1/2 years. This is the first time I’ve been in a serious relationship, and it’s the same for him. The sister has never had a boyfriend, developed bulimia a few years ago and currently takes medication for depression. She’s been on the upswing for a while, however, and she is very social. Her parents live 5 hours away, she has a pretty good therapist from what I understand, and needless to say she has a wide support network of friends and family.
Their sibling relationship and her individual actions have been a big issue throughout the course of my relationship with the dude. At the beginning, when I only saw him on the weekends, she called him constantly. Like 1 to 3 times a day. Since he works from his computer (damn lucky programmers), he could go anywhere during the day and used to meet her three or four times a week at Starbucks while she studied. I originally met him at a salsa dance class, and eventually she started coming to class, too. The dude did martial arts, and I became interested and started taking classes. So did she. Needless to say all three of us began to see each other every other day, during which she was super clingy around him and exhibited behavior that suggested she was competing with me for his attention, like coming up and pushing him when he was talking to me, or trying to pair up with him in the salsa class. She would sigh loudly if we displayed couple-ish behavior (which was not very often b/c we’re both really shy, btw). One time, the phone rang three times the hour before salsa class because she wanted to know whether or not he was going. Stuff like that.
As the dude and I got closer, I started to become more aware of all this and inevitably more bothered. She seemed to depend on him for every single thing, big and small, and he happily picked up every phone call. He reinforced her dependency on him and didn’t think there was anything wrong with it. He never saw a conflict between his relationship with his sister and his relationship with me, and he never seemed to be bothered by her competitive behavior in public. It began to feel like the dude was not only my boyfriend, but her stand-in boyfriend as well. (By the way, I mean “stand-in boyfriend” strictly in the emotional sense. I have never suspected anything sexual going on, and believe me, if I did, I would have already been gone.)
For a whole freaking year I said nothing. I felt guilty because of her circumstances (bulimia, depression), because it’s his SISTER, and because admitting that I felt threatened and bothered by the whole situation made me feel like a huge Jealous Controlling Bitch. But, it all became too much and eventually I did start trying to talk to him about it.
Long story short, it’s been a huge fucking struggle. I can count on one hand the number of positive conversations we’ve had about the situation. Over time, however, he’s stopped picking up her multiple daily phone calls and has passively discouraged her competitive behavior in public. He doesn’t hang out with her as often, and she’s stopped making comments like “ughhh you guys are so obsessed with each other!” I am really grateful for these changes.
But little things still happen, and we still have a huge fight about it once a month, probably. It’s wearing me down, and honestly, if we weren’t moving in a few months (I’m going to graduate school in a different state and he’s moving with me), I would seriously be considering breaking up with him. Originally, I breathed a huge sigh of relief when we decided to plan on moving away, thinking that a few years apart would solve the situation (she would mature a little, I would stop jumping every time his phone rang, etc.). But, his mom casually mentioned that she might want to move to the same city as us. And, since she finishes her nursing program next Spring, that means it could be as soon as 1 year. If she does move to the same city, she won’t be living with us (I’ve made it clear that I could not handle that), but I’m afraid it’s merely going to be Part 2 of this big unfortunate situation.
So, here are my questions.
In general, is competitive behavior exhibited by a sister around her brother’s girlfriend a common thing (or vice versa)? Is it common for a sister to be so dependent on her brother, even in situations involving illness (assuming she is still capable of living independently)?
Specific to my situation, should I have expectations of the sister “growing out of” competitive behavior and/or emotional dependency? Should I expect my boyfriend to place permanent limits on his relationship with his sister for the sake of our relationship? And finally, am I a huge Jealous Controlling Bitch if one day I can’t deal with it anymore?
(Please excuse the fact that these questions assume hetero-normative relationships.)
SarahMC: This sounds like a difficult situation. Neither my manpanion nor I have a sister so I have no idea what it’s like to deal with this sort of issue.
Does the boyfriend agree that his sister’s behavior is a problem and that she is coming between the two of you? You say you fight about it fairly often so I’m guessing the answer is no. If he is not bothered by her behavior or doesn’t want to confront her if he is, there’s no telling how long this will last. Where is their dad (because she seems to be treating her brother as a surrogate father)?
PhDork: The Dude and his Sister are emotionally close, but physically distant (halfway across the country), so I don’t have any direct analogue–also, Sister Dude, while human and flawed, has always been pretty independent, even though she had a bout with cancer early in her college years. But she adores him, confides in him, etc. in a way that is unfamiliar to me, another sister of an older brother.
I don’t think competition between sister and gfs is normal, but if the sister has no other relationships with guys–and if she’s absorbed all those “you’re not important unless you’re important to a man” messages–then I can see why she might feel threatened. I still think it’s inappropriate.
As for growing out of it? I’d hope so, but she’s already 21, not 13. She’s already extremely dependent on him. Multiple daily calls (uni-directional)? Tailing him in his activities? And if she’s talking about moving across country to be close? That sets off my EEP! meter.
I don’t think you’re being a Jealous Controlling Bitch. I think you’re going “WTF?” and for good reason. If/when y’all move in together, you need to have a conversation about sister, ’cause things don’t just magically change because you’re no longer in close proximity. The bad part is, you can’t really do anything. That’s bf’s job. I get that she’s vulnerable, but there’s a line between helping and enabling, y’know?
I sound like Dr. Phil, but there some co-dependency action here. Deep patterns have already been established, and unless/until your bf does something to change them, they’ll continue. The question is, does he WANT to change them at all? Or is he perfectly happy with his relationship with sis?
BeckySharper: I completely agree with Dork about their being co-dependency here. Problem is, it existed before your relationship with the bf and it doesn’t sound like it was a problem for him. Nor does it sound like he’s nearly as upset about it as you are–you say you have huge fights about it, but is that because he knows it’s a problem, or because he’s angry that you’re angry?
I can’t say I’ve ever encountered this specific situation in my own life, but I’ve dated men with children, and putting myself in competition with them in any way–for his time, his attention, his affection–was a guaranteed lose-lose proposition. And believe me, little kids are competitive as hell and they pushed my buttons in ways that were pretty similar to what your bf’s sister is doing. It sounds like your bf’s sister is emotionally immature, needy and troubled. You can’t change or control that. That’s how she is. That’s how she’s always been. Your bf is plenty aware of it. He can choose to change his relationship with her but YOU can’t. (Sorry, that part sucks.)
When someone acts like she does, it’s easy to get sucked into the sense of competition–it sounds like you have a little already, even without wanting to. The big question is this: if she continues to behave this way, and your bf continues to behave his way–i.e. not doing much to distance himself or let his sister know her behavior towards you is not cool–is it a dealbreaker for your relationship?
If so, you probably should have a discussion along those lines. Not “Your sister’s an immature brat; it’s her or me!” but “Your sister’s upsetting for me and the negativity of it is going to erode our relationship. Is there anything different we can do to make sis feel loved and supported so she’ll cut this out?”
Co-dependency, to a T. The problem is, that unless The Dude makes a conscious effort to rein in his sister, this could go on for some time. Frankly, it’s a lot like what goes on between my wife and her ex — it’s a constant, unwanted intrusion, and you’re afraid to do anything because of the reaction of the third party and the unintended consequences. You find yourself planning things to cause the least amount of disruption; you even do nice things for them, thinking it buys you capital with them, when, in fact, it does nothing but fuel the fire.
My advice: he has to talk to her. If he’s committed to you — we’re talking 100%, here — then he has to sit sis down, and explain that, no offense, but you’re cramping my life with the person I love. No matter what problems she has had in the past, they are her problems, not yours, and not his. Blood is only so thick — at some point, a person has to stand on their own, and support has to be pulled away to force that to happen. If he won’t do this for you, if your relationship is not worth that, then he needs to go, and you need to find someone who will commit to you first and all others second.
If I was in this situation, I would seriously reconsider having him move to another state to be with you. It sounds like the relationship is on pretty shaky ground with (at least one) serious issue that needs to be addressed. If he moves away with you, it will become much more difficult to end the relationship, if that’s what needs to happen.
It does sound like hardcore dependency issues. If Dude is letting her continue on with the behavior and encourages it I wonder what he gets out of that? Does he enjoy or secretly feel uplifted to be followed around and does he like having women fawn over him to try to get attention?
Those would be my questions. There might be something more deeply seeded in dude than what meets the eye?
Hm. The BF has a sister and I HAVE on occasion been a tad fed up with her in the sense that I think at times she sort of expects certain things of him that are not “normal” and which I think stemmed from their upbringing. HOWEVER it is nowhere NEAR as bad as what you’re describing.
I have mostly kept my mouth shut insofar as I haven’t felt that the occasional inappropriateness of her relationship with him really affects ME. That doesn’t seem to be the case in your situation.
If your BF is open to a different way of thinking about this and to really changing behavior patterns then I would say, just be patient. If he’s very resistant and everything is a battle then…maybe time to move on? Only you can make that decision but some things just are what they are. You can’t force change. And yeah, you’re not being overly jealous that is really extreme! Speaking as someone who has a close relationship/friendship with her brother, that’s not…ok.
I agree with what everyone has said. I wanted to add my own experiences with my brother.
My brother and I are eight years apart (he’s 18 and I’m 26) and, although he has craved attention from me, it’s not nearly as intense as what you’ve described.
The problem is that, like Becky said, it’s a lose-lose situation. His sister loses because she doesn’t learn independence, your significant other loses because of the fights and the constant demands on his time and attention, and you lose because you’re not able to have your separate relationship with him.
It sounds like she feels threatened by you. I think a good solution would be for him to set boundaries that both respect your relationship and also help reassure his sister that he still values her. If he can help ease her out of the “you or her” mentality, maybe she’ll stop thinking of your relationship with him as a zero-sum game.
Maybe he could designate a specific day as Sister Day and they can get lunch, catch a movie, or whatever. But in exchange, she has to detach herself during the rest of the week. It might help her feel wanted but also help her develop other attachments.
About every other week, on Wednesdays, my brother comes and picks me up from campus and we get dinner or go window shopping together. We listen to music in his car, talk about how our lives are going, and commiserate about Mom and Dad. The timing works out well because my partner works an afternoon/late evening shift on Wednesdays. I’m back home long before my partner gets off work, so it’s not like my brother is trying to take me away from him. (But even if my partner were home, I think it’s totally reasonable for me to spend 3-4 hours, every other week, with my brother.)
I really value this time with my brother, especially since we were in different countries during his adolescence and it’s great to finally be in the same city. We have a good balance, though, because my brother isn’t taking over the rest of my week or trying to take me away from my partner. About every three weeks, my parents have my partner and I over for dinner and it’s a good chance for my brother, my partner, and I to all hang out (we like to watch a movie or play Rock Band).
At any rate, like others have said, the point is his willingness to make changes. If he doesn’t see the problem, then I don’t think him moving across the country is going to help anything. It won’t stop her from calling obsessively and it might even escalate the frequency as she panics due to his absence.
So, I’m actually dealing with something similar-ish. My boyfriend is divorced, and has joint custody of his daughter. He and his ex-wife are civil, and they have a fairly amicable co-parenting arrangement, both going to parent-teacher conferences, etc. He has told me flat-out that if it were not for his daughter, he would prefer not to ever speak to his ex-wife again. But the daughter exists, so he tries to keep relations cordial.
The problem I’ve been having is that I feel like his ex-wife calls him a lot. They have been divorced for four years. I have been with my boyfriend for three of those years. In my observation, he calls her when it is something important (e.g. “Her ballet class has been moved to Tuesday nights” or “I have made an appointment for her dental check-up.” But his ex-wife calls him for a lot of random reasons – to tell him a funny story about what the daughter did that day, to ask if he has seen her pink sneakers, to tell him she was singing a silly song after school that day, etc. He always picks up the phone when he sees his ex-wife on caller ID, because every once in a while it is actually something important, like an injury.
Last night she called twice about something inane (daughter said a funny word), and he was getting a little frustrated, like “I don’t know that that merited her calling me twice on my free evening.”
I feel like it’s already a challenge for me to get quality alone time with my boyfriend, as he has 50% custody, and we’re both busy working people. So I get annoyed when his ex-wife calls during my time with him, for no apparent good reason.
I have resisted saying something because I didn’t want to be a big meanie who stands in the way of his relationship with his daughter. But I am not bothered when he calls his daughter or she calls him – just when the ex-wife wants to gab while I’m trying to have date night.
Anyway, I told my therapist all this, and she said that a) I’m not crazy or a bitch and b) the other woman is being intrusive and disrespectful of our time together.
So if I’m not crazy, I guess you aren’t either.
I do not have a solution other than telling your boyfriend how you feel, and it sounds like you have done that already. If the sister tries to move to be near him, it may be time for a really Serious Talk about his priorities.
If it’s an option: couple’s therapy. It sounds like the boyfriend has some issues he needs to work on, and maybe that would be a way to help him recognize that.
I have to disagree with BeckyS. Saying that “your sister’s upsetting for me” makes you the problem, not her. In a situation in which a relative newcomer is forced to compete with someone with whom her partner has a prior relationship, the newcomer is by default the bad guy, since things were stable before she came along. Sis’s family doesn’t seem to have a thorough grasp of the way she’s behaving. It’s good that things are improving somewhat, but warning signals are going off loud and clear. Is counseling an option for you and your dude? What, if anything, is he getting out of his sister’s attention? Are you prepared to leave him if he can’t commit to keeping his contact with his siter in bounds? What if the two of you move and sis shows up on your doorstep 6 months later?
Good luck-family problems are miserable, I know.
They’re completely co-dependent. And, from your position, it’s so hard NOT to get sucked into it. You need to decide what you are comfortable with in your relationship with your BF. If salsa is “your” thing, then sis is no longer invited. Sis will pitch 7 fits, but you guys are absolutely entitled to time together. But your BF needs to be on board, because he’s the one she’s going to ramp up the bad behavior towards. If you set YOUR boundaries, and he’s not willing, able to respect them, then you have some thinking to do about the future.
If you’re so inclined, The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner is a great book about co-dependency. It’s got a lot of easy to relate to examples. It was really helpful to me when I was trying to break some damaging cycles.
That’s classic codependency to a T, as others have already said. My almost-boyfriend is very close with his sis (she’s 7 years younger), and he’s very protective of her. Basically, their dad wasn’t around much, especially during her childhood, so I think he’s taken on a bit of the dad role for her. But even though they live in the same town (which is not their hometown), they each have their own lives. They get together once a week or so, and talk a few times a week. But when he’s with me, he’s clear about being with me first – he usually doesn’t even answer any phone calls she might make while we’re together.
I say this to show that it’s possible for a big brother to be close and protective of his sister, without going to the extremes shown here. Admittedly she doesn’t have the issues you describe in this woman (that I know of – I don’t know her all that well yet), but still – the situation you describe is just not normal. You’re not being a Jealous Controlling Bitch at all.
Also, I deal with this with my husband and his mother (for crying out loud!); we’re in therapy because of it. I find it helpful, though hard as hell, to not point fingers at my MIL when I’m angry. Instead of, “Your mother always makes it about HER!” I try to catch myself and rephrase to, “When you and I have made a decision, I find it hurtful that you reconsider OUR decision because your mother puts pressure on you.” Usually the hubs is more receptive than when I’m stomping my feet about how flipping immature the woman is.
Lots of “I” phrases…
I feel like I’m uniquely qualified to answer this question — well, maybe not unique to me, but my circumstances are quite similar.
From the time that I met Schmoogie’s brother, we didn’t get along. Then when I moved in with Schmoogie, some drama got started because his brother (who also lives with us) started thinking that I was taking advantage of Schmoogie, for a variety of reasons including the fact that the brother was projecting onto me some of the circumstances of Schmoogie’s failed marriage.
At some point (actually, last year on Yom-Kippur-Eve), we all sat down and got all the yuck out. There was yelling, and it was uncomfortable for a while, but then things clicked: I had never given Schmoogie’s brother a reason to like me. I didn’t take interest in his life, and from his perspective everything that I did just reinforced all of his negative imaginings about me. So, I told him look, we don’t have anything in common but your brother, whom we both care for a great deal, but if we’re going to be in such close proximity to each other we need to figure out a way to connect with one another on a friend level rather than an in-law-ish level.
It took some practice, but we did, and we’re kinda friends now. His life is easier, my life is easier, and neither of us is putting extra stress on Schmoogie because we can’t get along. The whole thing that was going on was that we were both feeling protective of Schmoogie, felt like we had to protect him from the other for whatever reasons; and yeah, there isn’t a lot of mental illness in our household (actually, it was me dealing with bulimia and depression last year), I think the solution here is the same: don’t diagnose, just get all the feelings out in the open and resolve to be her friend.
We all know that when we don’t have many friends we cling to the ones we’ve got, and if this girl’s brother is her only friend, maybe the querrant should try to have a friendship with her boyfriend’s sister without him around. Find something in common with her other than the boyfriend, and she may find that his sister becomes less clingy and defensive and more like a friend. If she trusts the querrant, whatever threat she poses to the brother/sister relationship will disappear.
I second the “I statements” advice from this woman, and would only add the following: This dynamic won’t change simply because there is distance between the pair of you and the sister. It’s tempting to hope that things will be different once you’re farther away, but that is the same false hope a lot of people have when they think something that is problematic in their relationship will go away once they (a) get married (b) move in together (c) have a baby, etc. And we all know THAT doesn’t happen.
I’m intrigued by Rachel S.’s suggestion – I don’t know if I’d be up to a genuine extension of friendship in these circumstances, but I could see how it would make certain things a lot easier to handle.
Other than that approach, I’d encourage you to focus on addressing specific issues within your relationship, rather than trying to change how he relates to his sister overall. (Even though you find their relationship odd, they obviously don’t, so trying to effect global change would just be fruitless and resentment-causing.)
You weren’t all that specific about the problems in your relationship, though – is it that his time with you is interruptable, and you therefore feel that she’s always the first priority? That you get very little ‘just’ you and bf time, since the 3 of you hang out together all the time? Or something else?
I’m a big fan of ‘I’ statements, and focusing on what it is that you need, so that it’s not just you saying that you need him to change X behavior. If you want time that’s just you & him, the idea of dedicated sister/brother time is a good one, but he’ll still have to be comfortable with excluding her sometimes. (I know some folks who are very tied into the ‘you have to like everyone I like’ mentality, and that’s very hard to change, even if he wants to.)
You’re *not* a Jealous Bitch, but this is a sticky, messy problem. Working on setting boundaries now and in your first year away will be very necessary, since hoping that she’ll grow up/ things will change while they’re apart is a recipe for disaster. Good luck!
You asked, “should I have expectations of the sister “growing out of” competitive behavior and/or emotional dependency?” and, “Should I expect my boyfriend to place permanent limits on his relationship with his sister for the sake of our relationship?”
I think that you can expect whatever you would like, but there is no mechanism in place that will make your boyfriend or his sister change their behavior. If they want to, then they will, and if they don’t want to, then they won’t. What is left is for you to decide what you are willing to live with. If you are in a relationship with this guy, you will always have to deal with his relationship with his sister, it might be different than it is now, it might get to a place where it is not only manageable but pleasant, but it will always be something.
In short, I don’t think this is really about you at all, and is only your problem to the degree that you decide to take it on.
I would like to give The Dude credit, because after you spoke to him about it, you mention that the situation has gotten better. I think he deserves some credit for at least trying to create a distance and to make you happy. A lot of people would have taken that out on you, instead of taking steps to make changes. The move may end up being a good thing, because it will be putting physical distance between them, and even if she eventually moves to the same city, at least they’ve gotten used to being apart more and maybe she will have gained some independence.
This really stuck out to me as the most important thing (advice-wise), and I’m a little bit surprised that we haven’t talked about it much yet. I agree that the situation between the brother and sister is co-dependent and probably needs to be addressed, but if the issue at present is advice for our fellow Harpy and not for the people in her life, I think it’s worth paying attention to the thing she ‘would’ seriously consider doing, if not for additional circumstances that would make it more difficult (but which would also make NOT doing it more difficult in the long run).
I think you have to trust your gut here, even if it’s painful (trite, yes, but seriously true). There are always a million reasons we could offer not to do this (he’s made some effort, you’re moving in together, things aren’t as bad as they could be, etc.)–but the fact remains that you’re worn down to the point of seriously considering ending the whole thing. To me, that’s an important feeling to pay attention to, and probably more important than whether their relationship is unhealthy (it seems to be) or whether you’re being unreasonable (you’re not). Especially if you want to avoid starting off your graduate work with a bunch of resentment building up at home.
Hey ya’ll, thanks so much for the comments. To answer a few questions:
This is not the first time someone in the Dude’s family has suffered from mental illness, so as far as what he “gets” out of all this, I think it is for more of a protective instinct and not wanting his entire family to fall apart than for any other reason.
Second, the other parts of our relationship are surprisingly fine, and I definitely feel satisfied in how much one-on-one time we spend together, etc.
Also, things are not nearly as extreme as they used to be, and I apologize for not making that clear. We only see her about twice a week (as opposed to every other day), and she has learned to not call him for every little thing anymore. But, sometimes she will still be competitive with me in public, and he will disagree that it wasn’t a big deal that she sat in-between us during his birthday dinner, for example. Or, sometimes she won’t call/text for five days, but then she’ll do it twice a day for three days.
And I’ve got to give him credit for the changes he has made, because some of them have been big.
So, I am in a hard place right now, because aside from this issue (and I realize it is a very big one, believe me), everything else is going fine.
I think I have determined my limit, which is if she moves up, and if she still expects him to be there 24/7 and he still obliges, I’m done. It would crush me, and I know it.
I’d be down for continuing this conversation further through e-mail or something if anyone is interested, so if you are, please let me know in the comments!
Whoops, forgot a few things. To answer questions about *he* feels:
Initially he was outraged that I was upset, as it was very hurtful to hear that I was having problems with someone in his family, especially someone who has a mental illness. His basic reaction was, “you have no right to feel the way you do and shouldn’t expect things to change.”
Eventually, he came around and starting making changes, but it made him resentful towards me, and his reasons for changing were strictly for my benefit, and not because things *needed* to.
But, within the past few months we’ve had a few positive conversations about it, and he has agreed to the fact that I had a right to ask for things to change, and no, I wasn’t a huge asshole for being bothered.
So, he’s been making an effort not only to change the circumstances but also to change his way of thinking.
But, I obviously have no way of knowing how much of his thinking has changed, and that’s what scares me…
I am, as is often the case, a little late to the party here, but I’d like to second what philosophyerin said: if you’re already feeling warn down to the point of being through with it, that’s definitely something to consider.
I’d also like to add to that the fact that you’re not just moving; you’re heading to grad school. I speak from experience when I say that grad school changes your life. A LOT. It’s hard, and it’s stressful in a very particular way – a way like nothing else I’ve ever experienced, before or since. Even for the best grad students, grad school can at times give you a real ego beatdown. I say all of this not to freak you out about school (it’s also one of the most awesome experiences I’ve ever had), but to point out that once you’re in grad school, YOUR emotional needs will likely change. You may need more support and understanding from the bf than before. I’d suggest thinking about how these issues in general speak to his ability to be supportive of YOU, no matter what. If he’s moving with you, is he going to be an emotional asset? Or an emotional expense? If you’re already worn down about this issue, what would it take for you to feel okay about it – okay enough that worrying about it won’t interfere with YOUR life and YOUR studies?
I don’t have much to add except to reinforce that this situation does sound co-dependant, and you have every reason to be upset. Also, it sounds like you need more talking. It’s nice that he’s making changes for you, but the fact that he doesn’t seem to really “get” why his relationship with his sister is upsetting is sort of a red flag to me. In fairness to him, I think you need to make it clear to him exactly where your “done” point is. Moving with you is a big step for him, and he needs to know exactly what your expectations and limits are.
Another perspective:
When I first met my SO, my mother was hospitalized for psychiatric problems. About six months after we started dating, she was released from the hospital, but was still fragile. She was lonely and called frequently, begging me to move in with her and worrying that my life was moving on without her. And I was frightened that something would happen to her and felt guilty that I wasn’t able to prevent her suffering in the first place. I daresay our relationship during those first few years after she left the hospital was codependent.
My SO isn’t particularly fond of my mom, he thinks parent’s should put their children’s needs above their own and he is angry about the sacrifices I had to make to care for my mother.
But never once in those years did he blame me for failing to give him my full attention when I was trying to care for her. When things were particularly tough, he would take her phone calls and listen to her rambling conversations so that she would feel connected to another human being. He showed her love and compassion because he knew how much she meant to me. Certainly, he encouraged me to set boundaries (something my mom and I eventually were able to do). Not for his sake, but for my sake. Because he could see my suffering and loving me meant trying to ease my pain.
My mom still calls every week or so, and I ALWAYS answer the phone to make sure she is alive and taking her medication. But because he reached out to her when she needed someone, she loves him almost as much as she loves me.
I just wanted to reply to your comment, Harpy Advice Recipient, about his sister sitting between you. To me, it comes back to motive. When my partner and I go over to my parents’ place for dinner, my brother often likes to sit between us. This isn’t because he’s trying to keep us apart; it’s because he loves my partner and has said he thinks of him as a brother (my brother has never had a brother and my partner is an only child; they’ve really hit it off together).
Anyway, I also think what others have brought up (re: the stress of the move and grad school) are important points. I really hope you’re able to work things out.
Its stories like this that make me glad I’ve never even tried to be close to my brother or sister. I mean, where do you draw the line? Huge clans around here live together on one plot of land, you can see 10 cars parked beside the twin double wides. Goodnite johnboy.. etc. I don’t really believe siblings need to be that close after childhood but thats just me
Also, can someone explain co-dependency a little more? I don’t watch Dr. Phil or study psychology, so…
“Even for the best grad students, grad school can at times give you a real ego beatdown.”
I want to echo this. I’ve felt, in the past two years as a grad student, that graduate school is a wild swing from euphoric, boundless arrogance to soul-crushing, misery-inducing, makes-you-wanna-throw-up, crazy-feeling low self esteem/self loathing. With a serious emphasis on the latter. Trying to negotiate a problematic relationship while dealing with the emotional roller coaster that is grad student life is not something I’d relish. I’m in an extremely stable and happy-making relationship right now with someone who does things like makes sure I eat three meals (with protein and vegetables) and tells me that I’m not a miserable idiot insect that deserves to be crushed simply because I’ve never read all of Dante’s Divine Comedy or speak French. And for real, I cannot imagine what I’d be like with that presence in my life. I mean, he was the only thing that kept me from 3 square meals of cheerios a day last spring, for about two months. I’ve never felt, in my life, that being in a relationship was easier than being single. But now I’m like, holy shit if we ever broke up? in the middle of the semester? I’d have to drop several classes to deal with the emotional wreckage.
So if I were you, I’d make sure this was dealt with and totally put to rest before you start school. Otherwise it probably won’t get dealt with until it’s well past the festering stage and into the misery stage.
(PS. I actually love grad school and will be going on to another program for 5 years this fall, so it’s not actually as horrible as it sounds from this post. It’s just really stressful.)
Hey, Advice Recipient.
I know about co-dependency through the lens of addiction, so that’s what I’ll explain, and I hope you’ll be able to see the parallels. They aren’t exact, but the dynamic will probably seem familiar.
So, X has a substance abuse problem. X is dependent on…oh, let’s say alcohol. X’s loved one, Y, is terribly worried about X, and does a lot to support her and help her overcome her problem. HOWEVER, the dynamic between X and Y is *deeply dependent* (co-dependent!) on X’s addiction. So, even though Y does really worry, and does wish that X wasn’t addicted, Y may also want (consciously or not) X to stay addicted, because that means that their relationship is “stable” and predictable, and it gives Y a way to be something to X that gives him some boost (whether that’s “I’m a hero!” or “I’m the martyr!” or whatever). Y is not dependent on the substance directly, but in a once-removed fashion; he is dependent on X’s dependency.
Any of our readers care to flesh that out, correct or clarify?
Kristen J.: Your situation sounds different than what the advice seeker is describing. It sounds like you were trying to support your mom through an illness in its acute stages, and that things have gotten better as your mom has stabilized. By contrast, the advice seeker mentioned that the sister is in a fairly stable place with her eating disorder and depression, and it sounds like the sister is progressing well through school, yet she still requires what appears to be an abnormal amount of attention from her brother. Moreover, in your situation, it doesn’t sound like your mom was purposefully trying to come between your SO and you, whereas in the situation at hand, it does sound like the sister intentionally interjects herself between the advice seeker and her boyfriend. It definitely seems like the sister is competing for her brother’s attention, and that’s what sets off the red flags. That’s very different than being a family member struggling through the acute phase of an illness or trauma and needing a lot of support.
@Kristen J.
I think Tall-in-Heels pretty much covered it; the boyfriend is far from the only person she sees or contacts, and she seems to be doing fairly well. Her parents live 5 hours away and visit every month, she lives with 4 of her BFFs from high school (one who also had an eating disorder), and her social life is far busier than mine has ever been. So…I really do feel for her, but it also makes me extremely uncomfortable that the Dude plays surrogate father/stand-in boyfriend in terms of how much emotional support he gives her, especially when that’s coupled with competitive behavior, ya know? But thanks for your input, I was hoping I would hear with someone who’s dealt with mental illness in his or her family.
@Skada
I also agree that it’s situational, and it seems like your brother sits in-between you and your partner for solidarity reasons with your boyfriend, which is sweet. But, the sister did not sit in-between us that time to talk to me; she talked mainly to her brother and leaned forward for the better part of meal, which made it hard for me to try to talk to him. So, those one of the once-a-month fights I mentioned was about this.
@Kristen J.
I think Tall-in-Heels pretty much covered it; the boyfriend is far from the only person she sees or contacts, and she seems to be doing fairly well. Her parents live 5 hours away and visit every month, she lives with 4 of her BFFs from high school (one who also had an eating disorder), and her social life is far busier than mine has ever been. So…I really do feel for her, but it also makes me extremely uncomfortable that the Dude plays surrogate father/stand-in boyfriend in terms of how much emotional support he gives her, especially when that’s coupled with competitive behavior, ya know? But thanks for your input, I was hoping I would hear with someone who’s dealt with mental illness in his or her family.
@Skada
I also agree that it’s situational, and it seems like your brother sits in-between you and your partner for solidarity reasons with your partner, which is sweet. But, the sister did not sit in-between us that time to talk to me; she talked mainly to her brother and leaned forward for the better part of meal, which made it hard for me to try to talk to him. So, you know those one of the once-a-month fights I mentioned? One of them was about this, and it was a terrible, miserable fight, because he absolutely refused to recognize my POV. Which made me feel like shit.
I apologize for giving the impression that our situations were the same. Every situation is of course different. But I wanted to point out that sometimes when family members are suffering or have suffered in the past it is hard to leave them to their own devices because the fear that they may harm themselves does not go away. My mother has not been acutely ill for 10 years (and yes in the beginning she did try to break up our relationship, but my SO saw it for what it was…a damaged woman seeking a sense of security) but every time the phone rings and I see her number my stomach clenches. Its very easy to say that the enabler in these relationship is doing something wrong, but it may be the way that person is coping with a stressful situation. In your question you didn’t mention how your boyfriend was feeling, what he was concerned about or afraid of? That’s why I shared my story, because I can’t imagine much more difficult the last 10 years would have been if my husband resented the times I decided to take care of my mom (even though, yes, she could have relied on someone else).