Comments on: Help Me, Harpies! Three’s a Crowd

By: Kristen J.

Kristen J. — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:13:53 +0000

I apologize for giving the impression that our situations were the same. Every situation is of course different. But I wanted to point out that sometimes when family members are suffering or have suffered in the past it is hard to leave them to their own devices because the fear that they may harm themselves does not go away. My mother has not been acutely ill for 10 years (and yes in the beginning she did try to break up our relationship, but my SO saw it for what it was...a damaged woman seeking a sense of security) but every time the phone rings and I see her number my stomach clenches. Its very easy to say that the enabler in these relationship is doing something wrong, but it may be the way that person is coping with a stressful situation. In your question you didn't mention how your boyfriend was feeling, what he was concerned about or afraid of? That's why I shared my story, because I can't imagine much more difficult the last 10 years would have been if my husband resented the times I decided to take care of my mom (even though, yes, she could have relied on someone else).

By: Harpy Advice Recipient

Harpy Advice Recipient — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 21:59:05 +0000

@Kristen J.
I think Tall-in-Heels pretty much covered it; the boyfriend is far from the only person she sees or contacts, and she seems to be doing fairly well. Her parents live 5 hours away and visit every month, she lives with 4 of her BFFs from high school (one who also had an eating disorder), and her social life is far busier than mine has ever been. So…I really do feel for her, but it also makes me extremely uncomfortable that the Dude plays surrogate father/stand-in boyfriend in terms of how much emotional support he gives her, especially when that’s coupled with competitive behavior, ya know? But thanks for your input, I was hoping I would hear with someone who’s dealt with mental illness in his or her family.

@Skada
I also agree that it’s situational, and it seems like your brother sits in-between you and your partner for solidarity reasons with your partner, which is sweet. But, the sister did not sit in-between us that time to talk to me; she talked mainly to her brother and leaned forward for the better part of meal, which made it hard for me to try to talk to him. So, you know those one of the once-a-month fights I mentioned? One of them was about this, and it was a terrible, miserable fight, because he absolutely refused to recognize my POV. Which made me feel like shit.

By: Harpy Advice Recipient

Harpy Advice Recipient — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 21:55:11 +0000

@Skada
I also agree that it’s situational, and it seems like your brother sits in-between you and your partner for solidarity reasons with your boyfriend, which is sweet. But, the sister did not sit in-between us that time to talk to me; she talked mainly to her brother and leaned forward for the better part of meal, which made it hard for me to try to talk to him. So, those one of the once-a-month fights I mentioned was about this.

By: Tall-in-Heels

Tall-in-Heels — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:19:39 +0000

Kristen J.: Your situation sounds different than what the advice seeker is describing. It sounds like you were trying to support your mom through an illness in its acute stages, and that things have gotten better as your mom has stabilized. By contrast, the advice seeker mentioned that the sister is in a fairly stable place with her eating disorder and depression, and it sounds like the sister is progressing well through school, yet she still requires what appears to be an abnormal amount of attention from her brother. Moreover, in your situation, it doesn’t sound like your mom was purposefully trying to come between your SO and you, whereas in the situation at hand, it does sound like the sister intentionally interjects herself between the advice seeker and her boyfriend. It definitely seems like the sister is competing for her brother’s attention, and that’s what sets off the red flags. That’s very different than being a family member struggling through the acute phase of an illness or trauma and needing a lot of support.

By: PhDork

PhDork — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:16:33 +0000

Hey, Advice Recipient.

I know about co-dependency through the lens of addiction, so that’s what I’ll explain, and I hope you’ll be able to see the parallels. They aren’t exact, but the dynamic will probably seem familiar.

So, X has a substance abuse problem. X is dependent on…oh, let’s say alcohol. X’s loved one, Y, is terribly worried about X, and does a lot to support her and help her overcome her problem. HOWEVER, the dynamic between X and Y is *deeply dependent* (co-dependent!) on X’s addiction. So, even though Y does really worry, and does wish that X wasn’t addicted, Y may also want (consciously or not) X to stay addicted, because that means that their relationship is “stable” and predictable, and it gives Y a way to be something to X that gives him some boost (whether that’s “I’m a hero!” or “I’m the martyr!” or whatever). Y is not dependent on the substance directly, but in a once-removed fashion; he is dependent on X’s dependency.

Any of our readers care to flesh that out, correct or clarify?

By: Cimorene

Cimorene — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:38:41 +0000

“Even for the best grad students, grad school can at times give you a real ego beatdown.”

I want to echo this. I’ve felt, in the past two years as a grad student, that graduate school is a wild swing from euphoric, boundless arrogance to soul-crushing, misery-inducing, makes-you-wanna-throw-up, crazy-feeling low self esteem/self loathing. With a serious emphasis on the latter. Trying to negotiate a problematic relationship while dealing with the emotional roller coaster that is grad student life is not something I’d relish. I’m in an extremely stable and happy-making relationship right now with someone who does things like makes sure I eat three meals (with protein and vegetables) and tells me that I’m not a miserable idiot insect that deserves to be crushed simply because I’ve never read all of Dante’s Divine Comedy or speak French. And for real, I cannot imagine what I’d be like with that presence in my life. I mean, he was the only thing that kept me from 3 square meals of cheerios a day last spring, for about two months. I’ve never felt, in my life, that being in a relationship was easier than being single. But now I’m like, holy shit if we ever broke up? in the middle of the semester? I’d have to drop several classes to deal with the emotional wreckage.

So if I were you, I’d make sure this was dealt with and totally put to rest before you start school. Otherwise it probably won’t get dealt with until it’s well past the festering stage and into the misery stage.

(PS. I actually love grad school and will be going on to another program for 5 years this fall, so it’s not actually as horrible as it sounds from this post. It’s just really stressful.)

By: Harpy Advice Recipient

Harpy Advice Recipient — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:27:55 +0000

Also, can someone explain co-dependency a little more? I don’t watch Dr. Phil or study psychology, so…

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:04:38 +0000

Its stories like this that make me glad I’ve never even tried to be close to my brother or sister. I mean, where do you draw the line? Huge clans around here live together on one plot of land, you can see 10 cars parked beside the twin double wides. Goodnite johnboy.. etc. I don’t really believe siblings need to be that close after childhood but thats just me

By: Skada

Skada — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 08:34:03 +0000

I just wanted to reply to your comment, Harpy Advice Recipient, about his sister sitting between you. To me, it comes back to motive. When my partner and I go over to my parents’ place for dinner, my brother often likes to sit between us. This isn’t because he’s trying to keep us apart; it’s because he loves my partner and has said he thinks of him as a brother (my brother has never had a brother and my partner is an only child; they’ve really hit it off together).

Anyway, I also think what others have brought up (re: the stress of the move and grad school) are important points. I really hope you’re able to work things out.

By: Kristen J.

Kristen J. — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 07:48:02 +0000

Another perspective:

When I first met my SO, my mother was hospitalized for psychiatric problems. About six months after we started dating, she was released from the hospital, but was still fragile. She was lonely and called frequently, begging me to move in with her and worrying that my life was moving on without her. And I was frightened that something would happen to her and felt guilty that I wasn’t able to prevent her suffering in the first place. I daresay our relationship during those first few years after she left the hospital was codependent.

My SO isn’t particularly fond of my mom, he thinks parent’s should put their children’s needs above their own and he is angry about the sacrifices I had to make to care for my mother.

But never once in those years did he blame me for failing to give him my full attention when I was trying to care for her. When things were particularly tough, he would take her phone calls and listen to her rambling conversations so that she would feel connected to another human being. He showed her love and compassion because he knew how much she meant to me. Certainly, he encouraged me to set boundaries (something my mom and I eventually were able to do). Not for his sake, but for my sake. Because he could see my suffering and loving me meant trying to ease my pain.

My mom still calls every week or so, and I ALWAYS answer the phone to make sure she is alive and taking her medication. But because he reached out to her when she needed someone, she loves him almost as much as she loves me.