Dear Harpies,
I am writing because I have had to recently re-enter the dating world after a few years of reprieve, and I am not too happy with what I am seeing. I feel an obligation to be polite to men that would seek my company, even if they are being too pushy for my liking. If I am out dancing with my friends, and a guys asks me to dance, I usually will say yes, but I have also found it necessary as of late to also say, “I will dance with you, but please don’t try to grab me.” (Which doesn’t always work.)
Last night I had the pleasure of receiving too much attention from two rather persistent dirtbags. At the beginning of the night they seemed nice, seemed to mean well, and I didn’t want to offend either of them, so I agreed to dance with them (this wasn’t simultaneous, danced with one, then the other approached, danced with him). Cut to end of night as I am politely declining an invitation home, politely declining to give out my number, explaining that my ex-boyfriend is also at the club and that I do not want to offend him, and basically very firmly but politely saying NO, NO, NO. I guess the politeness means, “I don’t really mean no, please keep harassing me.” In the end, I had to be the bitch. I had to basically say fuck off. And it pissed me off. I shouldn’t have to be a bitch. I should be able to say “thanks, but no thanks,” and have that be the end of it. I SHOULDN’T HAVE TO ASK MY EX-BOYFRIEND TO ESCORT ME OUTSIDE TO A CAB.
I mean, it’s hard enough for us to try to be social together (we have many many common friends, and it’s been four months so we are trying to make this platonic thing work), let alone when I have to use him to police would-be suitors (or harassers, as it were). Anyway, just a rant, and an inquiry as to if other harpies have encountered this. Is it impossible to be polite when it comes to rejecting advances? Should I not even try to save the boys’ egos anymore, should I just go straight to bitch? Why don’t men fucking listen when ladies talk?
-Bitchy in Boston *
Why don’t men fucking listen when ladies talk?
Ahhh…that is a question for the ages, and one which we—and probably all of you, too—spend an inordinate amount of time fuming over. The short answer is: Men don’t listen because we live in a patriarchial world and the Patriarchy has always taught that men’s opinions/wants/needs are more important than ours. You can apply that universal truth to many, many experiences, including why some dudes are grabby assholes in dance clubs. I think any woman who’s spent any time in a dance club or bar will have had the same experience you’re describing; it’s a common hazard at places where there’s a lot of free-flowing alcohol and testosterone.
But on to your question: Is it impossible to be polite when it comes to rejecting advances?
No, it is not impossible. But sometimes the only effective rejection is an impolite one, and you shouldn’t feel bad if you have to resort to it.
My rule is to reject politely but unequivocally the first time: No, thank you. I’m good/I don’t want to dance/I’d rather not give you my number. For most men, this will be sufficient. Most men are decent people and dislike rejection. They aren’t inclined to pursue someone who’s said she’s not interested. If a man gets grabby while dancing, I just give him the bitch face and move away. If he persists, I walk off the dance floor. He can’t grab me if I’m not there.
I’ll be less polite the second time: No, I’m not going to dance/drink that/give you my phone number. This is accompanied by a cold, hard stare.
If he persists, it’s time to Be A Bitch. At this point, you’ve made it clear—not once, but twice—that his attentions are not welcome. And he has not respected your No. That is a bad, bad sign. You are under no further obligation to be nice—in fact, being a bitch may be necessary for your own safety.
Try this, and feel free to yell: I said no twice already! Did you hear me? Now back the fuck off! Don’t touch me! Get away from me!
You may remember that my Be A Bitch posts started when I had A Very Disturbing Conversation with a friend who was being groped in a most unwelcome way by a guy she was dating, but she didn’t want to smack him or to tell him to get the fuck away because she was worried he’d think she was a bitch. She just couldn’t bring herself to be impolite, even though she was being sexually assaulted. Fuck that. Unwelcome advances—especially physical ones—are when it’s most important to be a bitch.
Most guys will back off before you have get out the Bitchzooka, but the ones who don’t are the ones who require the Bitchzooka. In fact, you’re doing Womanity a service by unleashing it, because I can guarantee if the dude is bothering/pressuring/pawing/being disgusting to you, he’s done it to plenty of other women, and maybe—just maybe—the Bitchzooka will make him think twice before doing it again. And if he grabs you and won’t let go, or paws your breasts or your crotch, it’s entirely appropriate to scream bloody murder, slap, punch, shove or knee him in the groin.
Being a bitch may deter dirtbags enough that you won’t have to rely on your ex to defend you, but having someone walk you to a cab or your car is still a good idea. Bouncers will often do this. Or you can go with a group of girlfriends and make a pact to arrive and leave together. The most important thing is to be safe, so if your instincts tell you a guy is trouble—even after you’ve been a bitch to him—don’t take any chances.
* I have to say, this letter reminded me of one of my favorite Flight of the Conchords songs: “Too Many Dicks on the Dance Floor.”
I don’t have the best people skills and when it comes to sleazy men at clubs I don’t have any. I go from zero to bitch in about 2 seconds. I find the best way to deal with aggressive men is to be aggressive back. I call it the ugly face, which is my non verbal “get the fuck away from me right now”. If they can’t pick up on that I honestly just push them away and tell them I don’t want their sleazy paws on me and get the fuck away or I will call the door guy over. Its that whole forward woman thing that throws them off. I get sick of watching my friends politely try to escape from would be suitors and if needed I will step in. I probably won’t be winning the “most charming” award anytime soon, but I’m also not stuck playing grab ass with the Sleaze Ball McGee of the club.
Yeah, it’s hard to reject a dude without going totally bitchcakes (anyone know that reference?)on him.
If I’m in a bar (or loud place) I sometimes pretend I just can’t hear a guy.
An aside, I have found it really gets dicey when you are harassed by a guy in a non pickup joint atmosphere. Say an event (family or friend) where a man you don’t know gets all up in your face. You have to deal with the added stress of maybe being rude to a friend of a friend or family member.
I just wish some dudes would get the memo – just because I accept a drink from you does not mean I have promised to make out with and/or have sex with you. Even dancing with you still does not equal a promise of sex. Heck, even making out with you isn’t a promise of sex.
Entitlement, much?
Most guys will back off before you have get out the Bitchzooka, but the ones who don’t are the ones who require the Bitchzooka.
Yes, this exactly. If they don’t listen the first time, okay, maybe they’re being a little persistent — if they don’t listen the second time, they’re not going to listen. I think your advice is spot-on, Becky.
Sometimes the Bitchzooka is required simply to impress upon a pushy drunk guy that his advances are not welcome. If guys have bad experiences when they engage in bad pickup behavior, at least some of them will hopefully realize their approach is fucked up. Don’t be shy!
I’m going to start a service called The Brush Off, whereby, for a mere $5 a month, you can call an 800-number, and if a guy is hassling you, one of our professional “sweepers” will give him “the brush off.”
@NefariousNewt: Harpies will, of course, receive a courtesy discount of 75%.
@Newt: Sign me up! I’ll pay extra if some of your professional sweepers will use a tire iron on certain guys.
I once punched a guy in the face at a bar, because he grabbed my ass and wouldn’t apologize. I then called my best friend and told her it was my proudest feminist moment.
Big proponent of being a bitch in this situation.
I don’t usually go out a lot so the times I’ve had to encounter such things are rare (and The Boyfriend’s usually with me, but to be fair, he’s a weedy nerdy guy [and I love him all the more for it, but still] and totally non-confrontational) but what I fear the most is that turning on Bitch Mode will make a guy so angry that he’ll try to assault me. And I’ve got a major crisis of conscience over self-defense—I think the best way to put this is if I ever had to fight anyone to the death, I’d still cry over my assailant’s corpse. I can fight if I absolutely have to, but it’d make me feel just as violent as whoever attacked me (I just wrote about this in my blog, incidentally)—I carry a whistle with me at all times when I go out, but I realize that can only do so much. I hate to thread-jack, but how can peaceful, nonviolent people be candid, truthful and even a little harsh without resorting to physical violence?
I love the term Bitchzooka. I’m personally a fan of the planned escalation – I tend towards the polite rebuttal once, firm nonpolite rebuttal next, then the blanket “I. Am. Not. Interested.” Anything that follows can be as bitchy as necessary.
And ITA about a drink not being an all-access pass, and that it’s ridiculous that some guys don’t understand this (NOT an issue w/ dating women outside of the truly deranged stalker types – why can’t guys take pick-up tips from us?) I’m of the opinion that if I accept a drink, I’m also accepting some conversation, but anything inappropriate or overly aggressive ends my involvement.
@Cat: how can peaceful, nonviolent people be candid, truthful and even a little harsh without resorting to physical violence?
That’s step 1 and 2 of the response I mention here. Say no. Say no again and scowl. Say no again, but yell it. You don’t need to get violent unless he provokes it, in which case you defend yourself.
what I fear the most is that turning on Bitch Mode will make a guy so angry that he’ll try to assault me.
If a guy’s going to assault you, believe me, he’s going to do it whether you’re being a bitch or being passive. And the vast majority of predators—or just plain assholes who don’t respect your “no”—will not stop unless you put up a fight.
I think most women are conditioned by society (i.e. the Patriarchy) to be terrified of angry men, and to shy away from hitting, shoving or striking people because we’re scared of being hit back. Well, fuck that. If it’s a choice between defending yourself or being assaulted, the obvious choice is to defend yourself. So what if it makes you cry afterwards? Nothing wrong with that–and you’re better off crying having fought off an attacker than crying because you were victimized.
Just wanted to add something about physical violence and defending yourself. I think we need to be careful about making it seem like there are obvious choices that apply to everyone. If a situation devolves to the point where you are actually being assaulted physically or sexually, your first priority should just be surviving. That may mean fighting back, but that option presumes a certain level of physical ability (e.g., that may not be an option for someone who is disabled). In some cases fighting back may mean you end up even more severely injured or dead. Whether to fight back or not is a case-by-case thing that depends a lot on the person being attacked, the attacker, and the circumstances surrounding the attack.
Also, there are some people who, because of shock, fear, or whatever, become immobilized and freeze up during an assault. I’d hate to inadvertently make those people feel as though they somehow contributed to their own victimization because they didn’t fight back or try to defend themselves. I know that’s not what’s being said here, but I just wanted to put that out there explicitly.
I’m all for Being A Bitch when necessary, and I think the three-step program of polite refusal, more assertive refusal, then Bitchzooka is a good one. Hopefully one or more of those will alleviate the situation. But if things escalate, and you feel like you may be assaulted, do whatever you have to to make sure you are safe. Do not tell yourself you are overreacting. And if, for whatever reason, you judge the situation as one where defending yourself physically is not possible or optimal, do not feel “weak” if you choose to protect yourself by seeking out a bouncer or male friend to watch your back, rather than continuing to stand up to the trouble-maker yourself.
It also seems that you have adopted a bit of an appeasement strategy, you say that you are accepting dances from people who “seem nice,” etc. But you are out to have a good time and if you worry that dancing with someone will lead to the ruination of your good time, it is okay, and even preferable, to say No as soon as you feel it. Once you say Yes to the first thing that you wanted to say No to, you have established a pattern of caring more about what the other person wants than what you want. And that path will just take you further and further from what you wanted in the first place, to have a good time. I’m feeling rambly, hope that makes sense.
@bella: I think you make a good point…appeasement/acquiescence rarely goes anywhere good. If you don’t want to dance with someone…don’t. That’s totally okay.
Women are CONSTANTLY taught to be hypersensitive to the way a man responds to us. So when a man gets angry, or pushy, or accusatory with us—for not wanting to dance, or asserting ourselves in some way—many of us default to thinking Uh-oh, he’s mad at me! What did I do wrong? instead of the much more justified WTF is his problem? Back off, dude!
This is also why I think the whole “I won’t be a bitch because I’m afraid he’ll be angry” is problematic. We have the right to be safe and the right to say no. We have the right to be a bitch and defend ourselves when men pressure or assault us. When we let the threat of THEIR anger prevent us from exercising OUR rights…that’s real trouble.
Of course, as Tall-in-heels pointed out, there are times when you might not want to duke it out–verbally or physically—out of fear for your overall safety, but if you’re in a crowded public place like a bar or a club, screaming, freaking out or even getting physical is a good defense strategy.
You say ” I feel an obligation to be polite to men that would seek my company, even if they are being too pushy for my liking.” And about the two men you mention specificaly: ” I didn’t want to offend either of them, so I agreed to dance with them.” You don’t really sound like you were having fun. Did you even WANT to dance with them? I agree with those who are advocating saying “no” sooner rather than later. You aren’t the cruise director. You don’t have to dance with everyone who asks.
pedimd: Cruise director!!!! OMG, love!!
“Bitchzooka” is my new favorite word EVER.
@Melissa: I can’t take credit for that one—it was coined by PhDork!
If a guy’s going to assault you, believe me, he’s going to do it whether you’re being a bitch or being passive. And the vast majority of predators—or just plain assholes who don’t respect your “no”—will not stop unless you put up a fight.
The other thing worth noting is that people who are predatory are counting on incremental boundary violations as a strategy to hurting others. It’s a test for resistance and a mind fuck rolled into one.
I’m a big fan of the broken record. It’s not your responsibility to find ten different ways to say no. In fact, repeating the same one seems to take some of the fun out of it for the aggressor — maybe it makes it seem less like a fun game. Or maybe I just attract douches with short attention spans.
j-bird:
I like to answer a question other than the one they are asking, like tell them the time or where the restrooms are, and then walk away.