A Man I’d Just Met (MIJM) and a Woman I Don’t Know Well (WIDKW) greeted each other as I poured myself some coffee. They asked each other about their families. MIJM said he has a baby daughter and a 4 year old daughter.
WIDKW: Oh, two girls!
MIJM: Yep, but the 4 year old isn’t a girl! She has girl parts, but she’s not a girl! She’s so rough-and-tumble and curious.
WIDKW: I love that! “She has girl parts but she’s not a girl!” Hahah!
MIJM: She’s such a handful, but she’s awesome!
Something tells me MIJM does not have a trans child. She just doesn’t act the way MIJM thinks “girls” act, so he only sort of considers her a girl. It’s touching that thinks so highly of her, but not so touching that he associates physicality and inquisitiveness with boys (or, perhaps more accurately, not-girls).
Ew. Just…. ew. I hate the “this is how girls act, this is how boys act” dichotomy, and I don’t understand how it survives, because everybody, but EVERYBODY, crosses it at times.
Gag me. So being active and curious are not “girl” traits? I’m sorry those girls have to grow up with a father like that. Even if he encourages their curiosity, it sounds like he will always make it clear that it’s not “normal”.
I hate when this crap comes up at work, and you aren’t free to loudly and profanely Set the Record Straight. Just last week:
Jenny – I’m leaving early today for bookclub
Boss – Is this a women only book club?
J – No there are men.
B – Gay or straight?
J – Um I don’t know I haven’t asked.
B – because I don’t really see why men would want to sit around and talk about books with a bunch of women. (notice the implication that gay men aren’t men)
J – ???????
B – I mean because men and women think in completely different ways.
J ????
B – it’s like how men never laugh at the right parts of movies. I remember when I was watching The Color Purple…
J – OK I HAVE TO GO NOW BYE
Come on, WIDKW! That’s your response? What about, “I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware girls were incurious.”
This is so frustrating. I mean, I’m glad MIJM thinks his daughter is awesome. But the way she is behaving is perfectly normal for little girls. Curiosity and physical activity are not gendered traits.
Knowing dudes with this attitude, I can’t imagine MIJM is going to be so excited if his now 4-year-old continues to exhibit behavior he deems “not-girl-like” when she’s a teenager or an adult.
I encounter this attitude all the time from customers at the Greeting card store where I work. For example, a woman the other day asked me to help her pick out a birthday card for her granddaughter. She pointed to the vast array of sparkly pink cards that we of course market for young girls, and she said “I can’t get her one of these. She isn’t a REAL girl, you know? She doesn’t like princesses or flowers.” I said – with a smile – that i was sure her ganddaugher was a real girl no matter what she liked, and that I’d be happy to help her find something to fit her personality.
At least she didn’t do what some people do and buy the pink princess card anyway, to help the girl understand what “real girls” like.
Damn! And I was so ready to leave a comment being like, “this is so awesome that a parent is being so accepting and enthusiastic about his child’s gender identity!”
Gahhhhh – headdesk! I hate this sort of shit. I was with one of my childhood friends and her toddler. We were feeding some ducks and he took off chasing them. I laughed, thinking it was just the sort of thing we used to do, and my friend said “He’s such a boy!” I said “WTF- we used to do that all the time!”
My unscientific observation is that parents who have a “traditional” setup at home (even if both partners work) do a lot more of these comments than single parents or parents with a less traditional division of labor.
This drives me crazy, my two and a half year old daughter is the sort of crazy child who likes to run around in circles and throw herself head first of tall buildings, while my husband has never thought that she is anything but herself a number of our acquaintances say ‘oh she’s such a boy’ or ‘it must be hard for you because she’s so active and so much more like a boy’. To which I’m generally gobsmacked because obviously that’s a load of gender-biased crap plus she isn’t hard work at all just slightly insane.
These same people often tell me that my son is ‘such a typical boy he wants his mother to do everything’ to which my general response is ‘well he is seven months old I don’t really expect him to wander off to get his lunch at the deli just yet’/
In a world where they make separate pink versions of even the most gender neutral toys and newborn size onesies that say “boys will be boys” parents who don’t make a constant, conscious effort to remain neutral almost always end up like MIJM.
I am lucky to know a lot of moms who are 100% the opposite of those parents. Like when a friend’s daughter was rolling in the mud with my son and a stranger came over and said “Oh what a tomboy, playing in the dirt!” and her mom said “Actually, I think all little kids like dirt. Because they’re KIDS.” Love her.
Ironically, my two younger sibs (boy, 7; girl, 5) kind of have “boy” and “girl” traits, but backwards. My brother is very caring and thoughtful kid, and is more prone to play quietly by himself, whereas my sister is very outgoing, tends to be violent when she’s upset, and is extremely loud. Thankfully, my dad and stepmom don’t have this attitude about them.
Hopefully having a daughter like that will eventually open his eyes to his own ignorance.
My son is a completely stereotypical boy, which people are willing to point out to me at least twice a day when we’re out in public. He’s hugely energetic, runs wild, gets into things, and has some kind of bloody wound every single day.
He gets that from me. My husband? According to his mother, sat quietly drawing or painting for hours while I was running wild over the neighborhood. Was never confrontational or aggressive, while I was picking fights with the area bullies. Was cheerful and agreeable and easy to parent while my poor parents were dealing with the most stubborn child on the planet.
Every single “masculine” trait my son possesses is so clearly one of my traits that my husband has to leave the room to laugh whenever someone comments on his boyishness.
These same people often tell me that my son is ’such a typical boy he wants his mother to do everything’ to which my general response is ‘well he is seven months old I don’t really expect him to wander off to get his lunch at the deli just yet’
I hope these aren’t people with babies of their own. Because I don’t expect children of either gender to do very much for themselves until they’re three.
This sort of thing is insidious. A conversation a few years ago between me and a Grown Man from my office softball team:
GM: Did you see Our Male Teammate out there? Man, he throws like a girl!
A: What does that mean, exactly?
GM: You know, he throws…like a girl!
A: No, sorry, what do you mean by that?
GM: Like, not very far, and [pantomimes "girl" throw]
A: Oh, you mean he throws like a little child throws?
GM: No, like a girl!
A: I think you mean, LIKE A CHILD.
GM: Oh, fine, all right, but “throws like a girl” is the expression.
A: Is it?
My dad also firmly believes that all males are born knowing how to parallel-park a car and throw a spiral pass. Vomitous.
Right, thanks for the reminder, jerk of a dad. I forgot that boys are curious and girls are gossipy. I’ll inform my engineer daughter immediately that she is, in fact, a male.
*grinds teeth*
Ugh.
@ annimal, my partner’s sister is a single mother of a boy and is so freaked out that she might damage him by raising him without a male influence she is the worst person i’ve ever run across as making “oh he’s all boy” comments. her group of single mother friends also love to join in the gender essentializing.
May I suggest that he thinks highly of her because she doesn’t “act like a girl”?
Oh lord. I would have been willing to give him a pass had he said “she’s not girly” and left it at that – but then after some thought I now find that entirely unacceptable too.
We have come far. We have far more territory to go.
@sybann: Yeah, had he said “girly”, I might have let it go, since that would be acknowledging the stereotype. Instead he flings himself into the stereotype’s arms and gives it a big wet kiss.
And I totally agree with Katharsis that there might be rocky times ahead if MIJM’s daughter fails to give up her rough-and-tumble ways and become a perfect lady in her teen years.
(Hi, everyone! First time commenter, long-time lurker.)
Ugh, so nauseating. Does anyone else find it REALLY creepy and inappropriate how MIJM just casually talks about his daughter’s genitals (‘girl parts’) to a stranger? That is, presumably this WIDKW is a stranger to the kid, not necessarily to him. Gross.
I had the same thought, Spark.
To be fair, my three year old spends so much time talking about his own genitalia (and frequently other people’s) that I can see how it would remove a filter in parents. The same way I used to excuse myself to use the restroom, and now I have to stop myself from announcing to the room that I have to go potty.
Always remember, girls do not poop! (At least they wouldn’t dare admit it.)