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	<title>Comments on: On Women and Chutzpah</title>
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	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Alecto</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29277</link>
		<dc:creator>Alecto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Very late to this, I&#039;ve not often run into this situation with friends, or people my age. The only one I can think of is an American friend of mine, who&#039;s a year younger, and rather less experienced (a big condensate of rich white male privilege, although his mother is Asian, since it barely shows) who&#039;d argue with me and one of my (girl)friends about, mainly, politics and history. And who&#039;d sulk for hours when he got the inevitable smackdown. The funny thing was that it showed that even though he should know better, he still never expects us to disagree, or prove him wrong. It&#039;s as if we should shut up, be pretty, and agree with him while making admiring noises.Ugh.
 
Otherwise, I don&#039;t know how this happened, but I&#039;m not that used to being underestimated, and I don&#039;t think I&#039;m particularly arrogant; I very much dislike having to self-promote, and writing personal statements to get into grad school was torture.
I have a short temper, and get exceedingly pissed off when people condescend to me, but there are always occasions where it&#039;s better to shut up and smile. And it&#039;s infuriating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very late to this, I&#8217;ve not often run into this situation with friends, or people my age. The only one I can think of is an American friend of mine, who&#8217;s a year younger, and rather less experienced (a big condensate of rich white male privilege, although his mother is Asian, since it barely shows) who&#8217;d argue with me and one of my (girl)friends about, mainly, politics and history. And who&#8217;d sulk for hours when he got the inevitable smackdown. The funny thing was that it showed that even though he should know better, he still never expects us to disagree, or prove him wrong. It&#8217;s as if we should shut up, be pretty, and agree with him while making admiring noises.Ugh.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I don&#8217;t know how this happened, but I&#8217;m not that used to being underestimated, and I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m particularly arrogant; I very much dislike having to self-promote, and writing personal statements to get into grad school was torture.<br />
I have a short temper, and get exceedingly pissed off when people condescend to me, but there are always occasions where it&#8217;s better to shut up and smile. And it&#8217;s infuriating.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29068</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I struggle with this every damn day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I struggle with this every damn day.</p>
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		<title>By: haelig</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29063</link>
		<dc:creator>haelig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This post is SO dead on:  I have a female friend who is just like your male acquaintance--she has this incredible self-confidence that lately has grown to the point of grating arrogance.  From jobs and awards to the boys she&#039;s dating, our conversations are always about how great she is, how she&#039;s almost guaranteed to get X thing, or what she&#039;s going to do next.  On one hand, I get horribly annoyed when I listen to her and I also wish that her confidence was the exception rather than the rule.  But then I wonder, &quot;Is this what should aspire to--this overwhelmingly confident assurance that I can get what I want?&quot;  

It is a quandary indeed: I struggle daily to break out of the polite, unassuming behaviors ingrained in me and assert myself more. But I also don&#039;t want to become that unappealingly arrogant. So I continue to seek that balance, and I believe there are many female role models surrounding us who stand up for themselves and their ideals without degrading into overconfident posers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is SO dead on:  I have a female friend who is just like your male acquaintance&#8211;she has this incredible self-confidence that lately has grown to the point of grating arrogance.  From jobs and awards to the boys she&#8217;s dating, our conversations are always about how great she is, how she&#8217;s almost guaranteed to get X thing, or what she&#8217;s going to do next.  On one hand, I get horribly annoyed when I listen to her and I also wish that her confidence was the exception rather than the rule.  But then I wonder, &#8220;Is this what should aspire to&#8211;this overwhelmingly confident assurance that I can get what I want?&#8221;  </p>
<p>It is a quandary indeed: I struggle daily to break out of the polite, unassuming behaviors ingrained in me and assert myself more. But I also don&#8217;t want to become that unappealingly arrogant. So I continue to seek that balance, and I believe there are many female role models surrounding us who stand up for themselves and their ideals without degrading into overconfident posers.</p>
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		<title>By: Endora</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29056</link>
		<dc:creator>Endora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 00:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Cat: Ugh, you hit a chord with the college essays thing.  The whole idea of writing a personal statement is a ridiculous part of the American system (no offense to all y&#039;all who went through it, it has many strengths too!).  I&#039;m going to college to LEARN, so judge me on my academic merits, not on some essay that doesn&#039;t even have anything to do with what I want to study.  Gah. /OT

Pilgrim Soul, I do know where you&#039;re coming from - sometimes people&#039;s unawareness of their own limitations is breathtaking.  And men are more commonly affected.  But I do wonder whether this is really a situation where you have to be a bitch - no-one likes to have their faults pointed out to them, and unless someone asked me to point theirs out, I probably wouldn&#039;t.  (Although I also try not to give false praise...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cat: Ugh, you hit a chord with the college essays thing.  The whole idea of writing a personal statement is a ridiculous part of the American system (no offense to all y&#8217;all who went through it, it has many strengths too!).  I&#8217;m going to college to LEARN, so judge me on my academic merits, not on some essay that doesn&#8217;t even have anything to do with what I want to study.  Gah. /OT</p>
<p>Pilgrim Soul, I do know where you&#8217;re coming from &#8211; sometimes people&#8217;s unawareness of their own limitations is breathtaking.  And men are more commonly affected.  But I do wonder whether this is really a situation where you have to be a bitch &#8211; no-one likes to have their faults pointed out to them, and unless someone asked me to point theirs out, I probably wouldn&#8217;t.  (Although I also try not to give false praise&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Cat</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29054</link>
		<dc:creator>Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reading this, I just can&#039;t help thinking of Audre Lorde&#039;s quote about the inability of the master&#039;s tools to dismantle the master&#039;s house. Should women combat harmful gender roles that equate femininity with indecision and an outsize capacity to feel intimidated. Absolutely. But should women do so by acting just as douchily egotistical as the guys? Absolutely not. What&#039;s sad is that this attitude is more or less expected of the new generation of employees. Even while I&#039;m still an undergraduate, I&#039;m expected to make connections with people in high places and brag about myself to them. (My parents put the pressure on me for this, and as an Ivy Leaguer it&#039;s particularly palpable.) I have no problem with word-of-mouth networking, and indeed, as I&#039;m an extremely candid person I have no problem playing up some of my positive aspect, but other times to me it just feels like prostitution of personalities—this is also how I felt while applying to colleges three years ago, particularly when writing essays—and it makes me extremely uncomfortable, and I&#039;m positive I&#039;m not the only one. If the only way to get ahead in the world is to sacrifice your own personal boundaries and comfort zones, particularly when the people in question are women who by their own innate nature are modest (obviously nobody&#039;s free from patriarchal influence, but some people are just naturally more modest or unassuming than others), to the point where it begins to tax you mentally and emotionally, something&#039;s seriously fucked up. We need more assertive women, but we also need workplaces that accept and reward less traditionally male modes of behavior.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this, I just can&#8217;t help thinking of Audre Lorde&#8217;s quote about the inability of the master&#8217;s tools to dismantle the master&#8217;s house. Should women combat harmful gender roles that equate femininity with indecision and an outsize capacity to feel intimidated. Absolutely. But should women do so by acting just as douchily egotistical as the guys? Absolutely not. What&#8217;s sad is that this attitude is more or less expected of the new generation of employees. Even while I&#8217;m still an undergraduate, I&#8217;m expected to make connections with people in high places and brag about myself to them. (My parents put the pressure on me for this, and as an Ivy Leaguer it&#8217;s particularly palpable.) I have no problem with word-of-mouth networking, and indeed, as I&#8217;m an extremely candid person I have no problem playing up some of my positive aspect, but other times to me it just feels like prostitution of personalities—this is also how I felt while applying to colleges three years ago, particularly when writing essays—and it makes me extremely uncomfortable, and I&#8217;m positive I&#8217;m not the only one. If the only way to get ahead in the world is to sacrifice your own personal boundaries and comfort zones, particularly when the people in question are women who by their own innate nature are modest (obviously nobody&#8217;s free from patriarchal influence, but some people are just naturally more modest or unassuming than others), to the point where it begins to tax you mentally and emotionally, something&#8217;s seriously fucked up. We need more assertive women, but we also need workplaces that accept and reward less traditionally male modes of behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Tall-in-Heels</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29051</link>
		<dc:creator>Tall-in-Heels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No it wasn&#039;t me, but that one phrase pretty much encapsulates my entire (very wordy) second paragraph.  Ah, to be succinct!

PS - I don&#039;t know how you feel about this and it certainly depends on the dynamics of your friendship, but would it make a difference to write your friend an email laying out what made you uncomfortable about the conversation?  I don&#039;t tend to do well with responding to situations like this as they&#039;re happening, but I have had success with hashing things out post-convo in written form.  Because really, this isn&#039;t just about some lack of confidence or whatever on your part; it&#039;s also about the way men are socialized to be bulls in the china shop when it comes to blasting their own horns.  Just as many women (myself included) could benefit from a dose of confident bombast, many men could benefit from a push in the other direction.  It&#039;s about achieving a balance for both sexes.        

(Which isn&#039;t to say you have some responsibility to educate him - you don&#039;t.  But if it might help him be less of a dick in the future, and help you get some of this off your chest, it may be worth a shot.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it wasn&#8217;t me, but that one phrase pretty much encapsulates my entire (very wordy) second paragraph.  Ah, to be succinct!</p>
<p>PS &#8211; I don&#8217;t know how you feel about this and it certainly depends on the dynamics of your friendship, but would it make a difference to write your friend an email laying out what made you uncomfortable about the conversation?  I don&#8217;t tend to do well with responding to situations like this as they&#8217;re happening, but I have had success with hashing things out post-convo in written form.  Because really, this isn&#8217;t just about some lack of confidence or whatever on your part; it&#8217;s also about the way men are socialized to be bulls in the china shop when it comes to blasting their own horns.  Just as many women (myself included) could benefit from a dose of confident bombast, many men could benefit from a push in the other direction.  It&#8217;s about achieving a balance for both sexes.        </p>
<p>(Which isn&#8217;t to say you have some responsibility to educate him &#8211; you don&#8217;t.  But if it might help him be less of a dick in the future, and help you get some of this off your chest, it may be worth a shot.)</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29050</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Tall: Yes, very true. A commenter a couple weeks ago called that the &quot;Right to be Wrong&quot;, which is a male but not female privilege. (Was it you? Or someone else? It&#039;s a great phrase and it&#039;s totally been added to my lexicon.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tall: Yes, very true. A commenter a couple weeks ago called that the &#8220;Right to be Wrong&#8221;, which is a male but not female privilege. (Was it you? Or someone else? It&#8217;s a great phrase and it&#8217;s totally been added to my lexicon.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tall-in-Heels</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29049</link>
		<dc:creator>Tall-in-Heels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But therein lies the rub, because the more you are open to the idea that you are wrong, the more you doubt and question and criticize yourself, the harder it is to claim your space in the world.&quot;

I think this is also a matter of gendered social conditioning.  For men, if they do one thing wrong and 99 things right, that one wrong thing is often seen as isolated incident, an anomaly.  For women in the same scenario, that one wrong thing somehow ends up largely invalidating the 99 right things in our own minds, and too often in the minds of others as well.  We&#039;re taught that we have to be perfect, polite, nurturing, quiet, etc.  The idea persists that women don&#039;t &quot;naturally&quot; belong in certain spheres; and there are still plenty of men who want to maintain the status quo, or, at the least, have been so thoroughly saturated with the Kool Aid that they just believe this idea without much question.  These men tend to point to every little misstep a woman makes as &quot;proof&quot; that women can&#039;t hack it in positions of power and prestige (in other words, as proof of their own natural superiority).

In theory, I think that confident bombast (based on the many things we do right) can co-exist peacefully in women with an openness to being wrong (because we&#039;re all wrong on occasion).  It&#039;s just hard to achieve that balance given the above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But therein lies the rub, because the more you are open to the idea that you are wrong, the more you doubt and question and criticize yourself, the harder it is to claim your space in the world.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is also a matter of gendered social conditioning.  For men, if they do one thing wrong and 99 things right, that one wrong thing is often seen as isolated incident, an anomaly.  For women in the same scenario, that one wrong thing somehow ends up largely invalidating the 99 right things in our own minds, and too often in the minds of others as well.  We&#8217;re taught that we have to be perfect, polite, nurturing, quiet, etc.  The idea persists that women don&#8217;t &#8220;naturally&#8221; belong in certain spheres; and there are still plenty of men who want to maintain the status quo, or, at the least, have been so thoroughly saturated with the Kool Aid that they just believe this idea without much question.  These men tend to point to every little misstep a woman makes as &#8220;proof&#8221; that women can&#8217;t hack it in positions of power and prestige (in other words, as proof of their own natural superiority).</p>
<p>In theory, I think that confident bombast (based on the many things we do right) can co-exist peacefully in women with an openness to being wrong (because we&#8217;re all wrong on occasion).  It&#8217;s just hard to achieve that balance given the above.</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29048</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29048</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When PSoul was gchatting with me about this my mind kept scrolling like one of those news crawls on Fox News: &lt;em&gt; what a dick what a dick what a dick what a dick....&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;ve definitely had moments where I completely failed to Be A Bitch because I was stunned into silence by the complete confidence with which people spewed utter dick-itude. (After all, I went to school in the South with a whole lotta Christian evangelicals.) And yes, it was often dick-itude spewed by jackass, overconfident white men who&#039;d read too much Ayn Rand.

We&#039;ve all had those moments where we come up with the classic Dorothy Parker-like rejoinder, hours after the conversation&#039;s ended. I am STILL coming up with the perfect retort to conversations I had 10 years ago with a former boss who overconfidently talked out his ass all the time. It really does get under one&#039;s skin, and I completely agree that it&#039;s WAY more of a male thing, because being a pompous blowhard is nearly always a male privilege.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When PSoul was gchatting with me about this my mind kept scrolling like one of those news crawls on Fox News: <em> what a dick what a dick what a dick what a dick&#8230;.</em></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve definitely had moments where I completely failed to Be A Bitch because I was stunned into silence by the complete confidence with which people spewed utter dick-itude. (After all, I went to school in the South with a whole lotta Christian evangelicals.) And yes, it was often dick-itude spewed by jackass, overconfident white men who&#8217;d read too much Ayn Rand.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve all had those moments where we come up with the classic Dorothy Parker-like rejoinder, hours after the conversation&#8217;s ended. I am STILL coming up with the perfect retort to conversations I had 10 years ago with a former boss who overconfidently talked out his ass all the time. It really does get under one&#8217;s skin, and I completely agree that it&#8217;s WAY more of a male thing, because being a pompous blowhard is nearly always a male privilege.</p>
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		<title>By: yvanehtnioj</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/06/18/on-women-and-chutzpah/comment-page-1/#comment-29047</link>
		<dc:creator>yvanehtnioj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=15980#comment-29047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am good enough at Being a Bitch (or, more simply, perhaps just bitchy enough) that I&#039;ve weeded out the friends in my life like this, but the mentality is still inescapable.  I was in an interview once where I was asked whether I had experience performing a specific task, which would be above my pay grade but not unimaginable at my level.  I gave a very honest answer: that I hadn&#039;t had the chance to do so at my old firm because few juniors got to do such a thing, and I wasn&#039;t comfortable putting myself forward and demanding the opportunity when there were people above me who hadn&#039;t had the chance yet; that I felt that it becomes less about self-confidence and more about ego to aggressively self-promote as the group of people you&#039;re surrounded by becomes more and more exceptional.  The interviewer looked at me like I had just admitted I never learned to read.

The problem isn&#039;t just men like this, it&#039;s that they&#039;ve structured so many business models to assume that if you&#039;re not also manically egotistical, it must be because you&#039;re deficient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am good enough at Being a Bitch (or, more simply, perhaps just bitchy enough) that I&#8217;ve weeded out the friends in my life like this, but the mentality is still inescapable.  I was in an interview once where I was asked whether I had experience performing a specific task, which would be above my pay grade but not unimaginable at my level.  I gave a very honest answer: that I hadn&#8217;t had the chance to do so at my old firm because few juniors got to do such a thing, and I wasn&#8217;t comfortable putting myself forward and demanding the opportunity when there were people above me who hadn&#8217;t had the chance yet; that I felt that it becomes less about self-confidence and more about ego to aggressively self-promote as the group of people you&#8217;re surrounded by becomes more and more exceptional.  The interviewer looked at me like I had just admitted I never learned to read.</p>
<p>The problem isn&#8217;t just men like this, it&#8217;s that they&#8217;ve structured so many business models to assume that if you&#8217;re not also manically egotistical, it must be because you&#8217;re deficient.</p>
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