I was chatting recently with some female friends about a Savage Love column, “Vibrators for Teens“, in which Dan Savage went off on a glorious rant about a teen girls’ right to love her vibrator:
Taylor Momsen—one of the stars of Gossip Girl—recently “divulged” to Disorder Magazine that her “best friend is her vibrator.” Fox News wrote up the “scandal,” of course, but got quotes only from anti-sex nutters: batshit Catholic reactionary Bill Donohue, conservative radio yakker Michael Medved, an elderly grandmother who runs a parenting organization, and some douchebag from the National Center For Biblical Parenting* who predicted that Momsen’s actions “will result in failure in her life.”
There are no quotes—in the interest of fairness and balance—from anyone who doesn’t see vibrators as battery-operated tools of the devil. No one is allowed to point out that sex toys are common, completely mainstream, and safe for use by young women. A vibrator is a low-risk alternative to intercourse with, say, Chace Crawford. (No risk of pregnancy, disease, or Axe body spray.) And no one is allowed to point out that the age of consent in New York is 17. Momsen may not be old enough to walk into a sex shop—which I find ridiculous—but anyone old enough to have a dick in her twat is old enough to have a vibrator in her nightstand.
Obviously there’s nothing wrong or shameful about having a vibrator, although talking about it can cause a concern troll stampede. I suspect conservative Christian wingnuts out there think this is a sign of “failure” in Momsen’s life because they’re so invested in the old canard that real woman can only be truly fulfilled by King Penis—something that the Patriarchy has always desperately needed to be true, but which, sadly for them, is not.
My friends were a little unnerved by the thought of a teenager talking so openly about vibrators, but I disagree. I’ve written about how I personally find vibrators to be overmarketed and kind of meh, but if a young woman wants to be out-and-proud about self-love, well, good for her. I also suspect Taylor Momsen mostly threw out that line about her vibe-fondness as a way to seem sexxxy! and edgy! and hey, y’all, I’m a GROWN WOMAN! Which seems silly, but boundary-pushing is how we self-define and it’s age-appropriate when you’re 17. And I’d much rather she wax rhapsodic about a vibrator that than, say, star in her own home-made porno—now a fairly routine coming-of-age stunt for young celebs and wannabes.
What do you think, ladies? Is there something anxious-making about a teenager talking about her vibrator? Is it something we should encourage? Discourage? Just remain tastefully neutral?
* Frankly, even the concept of “Biblical Parenting” is ridiculous, because if you’ve ever actually read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, it’s practically a handbook of Epic Parenting FAIL.
Biblical parenting: throwing your adolescent virgin daughters out to a mob for rapin’!
As to vibrators: generally, I don’t think many 17 year olds warrant a blab-piece in any magazine, but that’s the world we live in. I’m not even sure who this Momsen person is, never having watched Falcon Crest on the Upper West, but sure, whatever, I guess. I’m interested in the sexual habits of a scant handful of people (me, the Dude, and the Viscont de Valmont as portrayed by John Malkovich in 1988), but not much more than that.
I think teen girls should know about and have access to sex toys, and that masturbation should be no big deal. Maybe not dinner-table conversation, but just no big deal.
I know when I was 17, I wanted a vibrator BADLY, but couldn’t get one except through the skeevy mail-order outlets, and deemed the risk of discovery too great. Had to wait until I was at college. I wonder how having one would have affected my sexual experimentation at that age.
Wish I’d had access to a vibrator at that age. In fact I’d support a program to provide young women with masturbatory supplies and lessons on use.
Dan Savage did point out later in that column that these days you don’t even need to go into a sex shop to buy a vibrator—you can get one from any of the mainstream places that sell them, like drugstore.com or Amazon. All you need is a computer and PayPal account. Things are so much easier for kids these days!
Is there something anxious-making about a teenager talking about her vibrator? No.
Is it something we should encourage? Maybe.
Discourage? No.
Just remain tastefully neutral? Towards other people’s kids, yes. Towards my own, no.
My sex life began at age 17 and has not really had a break since then. I think I am a very very lucky person because of that. I think it makes me mostly sane, most of the time. I think 17 year olds are precisely the people that would benefit from a vibrator. Then they could calmly review their options.
a concern troll stampede that phrase plus the image are really funny
“I know when I was 17, I wanted a vibrator BADLY, but couldn’t get one except through the skeevy mail-order outlets, and deemed the risk of discovery too great. Had to wait until I was at college.”
THIS.
I think it’s awesome teen girls are accessing vibrators and taking control of their sexual fulfillment. Though I think the quoted 17yo (no clue who she is) WAS just trying to be “edgy”.
@Rodriguez: I wouldn’t remain neutral with my own kids, but I’d err on the side of just saying “Whatever you want to do will be fine.” I wouldn’t, say, buy them one, like the mom in Carrie Fisher’s novel Surrender the Pink, who gives her 15 year old daughter a vibrator. I’m skeeved by the idea of parents actually providing the toys.
Yeah, I think buying one FOR your kid (unless explicitly asked, and that’s still…weird) is inappropriate. Your kid’s sexuality should be her own, and letting her know about sextoys but not presenting her with one demonstrates that she deserves both pleasure and privacy.
@Becky I totally get the skeeve aspect. I appreciate this discussion very much, since I haven’t had this particular chat with my daughter. In fact I don’t think I’ll bring it up. If it goes there b/c she led it, ok so bet it, otherwise, I dunno. It’s great to be able to work it all out here, tho.
Your kid’s sexuality should be her own definitely agree.
@rodriguez: I guess if my daughter came to me and specifically said “I want a vibrator” I would swallow hard and hand her my credit card. But I think that’s pretty unlikely, as kids usually try to keep their parents as FAR from their sexuality as possible. In fact, kids are almost pathologically secretive about their sexual exploration, and I think that’s probably healthy for them—just keep emphasizing the right information and advice and that’s all you can do.
Really? What if it’s a mom discreetly taking aside her daughter, handing her a box, and saying, “Here. Let’s talk about owning your own sexual fulfillment…”. Alternatively…? Handing her a credit card and a URL with a wink? Just not getting in her way when the brown paper wrapped package shows up? I’m not being snarky, I’m really interested in how you all would handle it. I have a daughter (she’s 2, so plenty of time yet), and son, so I think about how I want these kind of conversations to go.
I too wish I’d had a vibrator when I was 17 (or, 15 really). I probably would have been mortified, but secretly grateful, if my mother had addressed it directly. My mother was super direct about the biology of sex (she’s a nurse) and puberty, and what-not. I was that kid on the block who explained where babies come from to all the other kids, but we NEVER talked about pleasure, or relationships, or me actually navigating having a sex life. It’s like I only got half the story and had to figure out the rest for myself. I’d like to have more complete conversations with my own kids.
Uh oh, she just announced she put sand in her pants and then peed in them. ?? Potty first, vibrators later. Gotta go.
@Becky I think you are dead on when you say that kids are secretive about their sex lives, and that it’s probably healthy.
The one piece that I don’t get is why you think you would have to swallow hard before you handed over the credit card. Do you just mean that you would have to get over some squirminess? (I would.) Or do you mean something stronger than that?
Oops1 I was posting while you were posting and….now my question is moot.
@krismcn: Just to further answer your question, I guess that in general I’d be a little hesitant to endorse any particular form of self-pleasuring. It’s healthier to let kids figure it out themselves, especially because what works for some is not what works for others. For example—TMI ALERT—Vibrators just don’t get me off. Nor does rubbing against stuff. I know many women, however, who had their first orgasms or their most reliable orgasms by doing those things. If someone had told me explicitly that those were the “right” way to do it, I might have been really disappointed or thought something was wrong with me when those methods failed to “work.”
@rodriguez: Yeah, I’d just have to get over some squirminess. I mean, it’s one thing to know in theory that your kids are doing something sexual. It’s easy to endorse those things in the abstract but it’s awkward to get your nose rubbed in it.
John Malkovich as the Viscount de Valmont was my first movie star crush. I was 18.
As for the questions about teens and vibrators, I think it is fine if they have them and it is fine for them to talk about them. I would prefer it not be at the table at Thanksgiving dinner, but other than that…
My daughter is 7 y.o. and I am wondering how to broach the subject of masturbation with her. I remember discovering masturbation around 9 or 10 and because the feelings were so intense I though I was hurting myself. I’m sorry to go off on a tangent, but I’m curious if anyone has any ideas.
I am all about teenagers getting vibrators. This is because when I worked at a high school, one of my advisees–who was delightful, and about whom several of my coworkers (formerly my teachers) said, “She reminds me of you when you were in high school,” probably because she was righteously indignant and outspoken–had sex for the first time. And was like, HOLY SHIT I LOVE SEX. Which, fine, and none of my business, outside of general advisor-y things like some strong words about using condoms.
But then it became my business when she broke up with her boyfriend but still wanted to have sex because, sex is fun, but didn’t have a boyfriend or a place for sex. And so she kind of picked dudes and was like, “He’ll do,” even though they were, from my standpoint, sketchy as hell. And I was like, “Student, you don’t even really like him. Why are you doing this with this douchey dude?” And she was all, “Because: Sex! Awesome!” And then she asked me if she could have sex in the stacks of the library basement.
At that point it became my business, because I was like, NO YOU CANNOT HAVE SEX IN THE LIBRARY.
And she was like, But sex! So fun! Want it! And I was like, You need to get a vibrator.
And then I realized that I could probably get fired for telling her that, and also that teenage girls should be given vibrators because asking for sex toys is probably really difficult for teenagers, and because they need to learn that pleasure is what sex is for, not appeasement. Which this girl got instinctively, which was nice, but most of the other girls I was dealing with did not see sex as Something Fun for When I Want To, but instead as Something You Do So Your Boyfriend Won’t Break Up With You, or Something I Want To Do But Can’t Because That’s Slutty, or some combination.
coincidental you should post this on the same night Christine O’Donnell (anti-masturbation) won her primary for Senate in Delaware
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=095_1283476019&comment_order=newest_first
I don’t have a problem with teens having vibrators. However I would agree with what others have said, if they’re provided by the parents its kinda skeeve.
Here’s the thing, and I do not have kids so take this with a grain of salt. But. I would be really uncomfortable having a relationship with a teenage child that involved like, personal details etc. I’ve often thought that if I was the mom I would not be “cool” with my kids having sex in the house. Now I would FULLY expect them to do it anyway which basically means that yes I’m endorsing sneaking around.
I just think that besides telling them to be safe and helping them with that (ie birth control) and maybe some talk about CONSENT and what it means I’d be hands off.
I knew some kids who had parents who were what I would call OVER involved in their teens sex lives and even back then it seemed… inappropriate. I really think there are some things that should be your own to experiment and experience.
Oh I also think I’d take a page from my own mother and say, “you have a kid? You’re on your own. Out of the house, off the payroll. I’m not raising anymore kids.”
That made a big impression on me, cause my mom does not play like that.
@bluebears: I would not be cool with my high school age kids having their significant others sleep over on my watch. I’m willing to accept the reality that they might be having sex and happy to set them up with birth control and relevant info, but…I’m not going to facilitate the sexytimes. Sorry, kids, not on my watch. My brothers had their girlfriends sleep over when they were in high school because my father and his wife were simply too spineless to say no…I always thought that was a big parenting FAIL.
I don’t think I could tell my kids that I would kick them out and cut them off if they had an accidental pregnancy. Blustering about it is one thing, but actually doing it would only hurt the child and grandchild. For me it would ultimately be an empty threat.
Also…would you kick your son out or just your daughter? I find that people who say that kind of thing inevitably are thinking of if their daughter came home pregnant, but if their son knocks someone up, well, that’s the girl’s family’s problem, not theirs.
First of all, I love that Dan Savage is concerned about the risks of young women’s exposure to Axe body spray. Amen to that!
As for teenagers and vibrators, I don’t want to say we should be handing them out to teenage girls along with pads and a pamphlet on becoming a young woman (the welcome kit, as I like to call it) although you could pick out a totally non-penis shaped one and tell the young teens that it is a personal massager to help alleviate cramps and just let them figure it out.
I realize this idea wouldn’t fly and may be going to far but when I was growing up it seemed to me that masturbation was more taboo than sex. There were plenty of teenage girls at my high school that were becoming sexually active with their boyfriends and not themselves. Not only did their pleasure take a backseat to their boyfriends’ pleasure when they were together, their pleasure was nonexistent on their own.
There were also plenty of graduation party/baby showers where I grew up. Yep, “Congrats, Grad” banners hanging up along side “It’s a Girl” and “It’s a Boy” banners.
I am generally pro-whatever helps teenage girls realize their pleasure is important and obtainable in safe ways.
@AerynnMarie: Not only did their pleasure take a backseat to their boyfriends’ pleasure when they were together, their pleasure was nonexistent on their own.
Yes, this is so the reason I think masturbation is important for women. Partnered sex—with men, at least—is often not so pleasurable at first, plus young women are fed so many bad messages about how they should perform sexually to please their boyfriends in ways that aren’t pleasurable for them. If they’ve never experienced any sexual pleasure on their own, they don’t know what they’re missing and they don’t know how to ask for it or even expect it.
@becky: Both sexes. Because if its a guy he’d be paying child support most likely.
I would do it too. It wouldn’t be an empty threat for me. I mean unless the circumstances were really extreme and the kid was like under 14. Because no. You want to be an adult? You get treated like an adult. Get a job, get your own place to live. I guess I’d have more sympathy for a guy because the decision to actually have the child wasn’t up to them but again, birth control, that part was up to them.
ETA: As to hurting the kid and the grandkid I mean I think that’s debatable. It could hurt both of them more in the long run to be coddled. I mean this is totally going on anecdotal evidence alone but I never met one teenaged mother (or father) who’s parents basically let the kid stay at home and “helped” who didn’t have another kid in a year or so that they couldn’t support any better then the first one.
@Bluebears: So if you had a pregnant kid who was, say, 16, you’d ensure that they wound up homeless, with no income, no health care, and no education (since, presumably, they wouldn’t be able to finish high school if they had to get a full-time job. And we know just how many good full-time jobs with benefits are open to dropouts).
I saw that scenario more than once growing up, especially with Latino friends. It basically ensured that pregnant girls either married their baby daddy, which was rarely a good choice given their age, or were left to fend for themselves with no money and no education. It never resulted in anything other than poverty and hardship for them and their baby. Why would you inflict that on a child you love? In order to teach them a lesson? To punish them for somehow inconveniencing you as a parent?
If I had a pregnant kid at home, I’d make sure he/she got decent pre-natal and birth care, were able to finish school, and felt loved and supported regardless of the mistakes they’d made. Because that’s what parents ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.
Sorry, I guess I’m just a hard ass. That’s why I will be making the situation clear from the get-go.
I knew kids who got pregnant in high school and they didn’t become homeless. Did they have regrets and feel like they missed out on certain things? Of course. But who doesn’t have regrets? I’d “inflict” that on a child I loved to let them know that there’s no safety net in life, not really, and actions have consequences. Plus again, it’s not like I’d just spring it on them out of nowhere. I’d help them with birth control, if they wanted I’d help them get an abortion but there’s only so much I can do. If they want to have a kid at 16,17,19 yrs old, then good luck and god bless, you know?
That’s what I mean when I say I believe having sex is an adult decision with adult consequences. Plus I mean, you can always get an abortion (you know, hopefully that remains true)and move on with your life.
I knew kids who got pregnant in high school and they didn’t become homeless.
Presumably because their parents didn’t kick them out. Otherwise, where did they wind up? On a friend’s couch? Living with their partner’s family? A shelter? I saw all of those happen. It was very traumatic for the pregnant girls, who are, after all children. Saying “sex is an adult decision with adult consequences” is a nice line, but you’re still talking about someone who is legally and psychologically not an adult.
It’s also worth mentioning that as far as the law’s concerned, in many US states if you’re a parent who kicks a minor child out of your home for no reason—and a child’s pregnancy is not considered a valid reason—you can be prosecuted for child abuse and neglect, and your kid has the option of going to foster care. I saw that happen too.
Bottom line: parents are supposed to care for their children. Kicking your kid out of the house when they are underage and vulnerable is a massive parenting FAIL.
How about a gift card to Smitten Kitten? The kid can browse and pick out something she likes. Sex positive, but not as weird as your mom gifting you a vibrator.
If I had a daughter, I’d buy her a gift card from a feminist sex shop for her 14th birthday. I’d attach a note that learning about sex was an important part of growing up and that whenever she felt ready, she could pick something out for herself, privately. No questions asked, ever.
I’d pick a place that sold variety of products from books to lingerie to sex toys, so there would be the some plausible deniability built in. I’d make sure the gift card was good for a long time, and make sure that she knew that she didn’t have to redeem it right away.
If I had an adult female friend or relative who was also close to my daughter, I might “launder” the gift through her. It’s probably less embarrassing to get a sex shop gift certificate from your beloved, hip Auntie So-and-So than it is to get it from your mom.
If my child got pregnant, or got someone pregnant, it would be my responsibility to finish raising my own child and do my part to raise my grandchild until my kid became an adult.
Nothing would change. As a parent, I would support my kid unconditionally until they were at least 18, regardless of his or her reproductive choices.
If my daughter insisted on having a baby while she was still a child herself, that would be one of many bad, childish decisions that a parent can’t control or prevent.
Saying “if you do x, then you’re choosing to be an adult” is a contradiction in terms.
The whole point is that you’re not an adult because you’re still mentally and physically immature and in need of parenting–even though you have a right to bodily autonomy that I cannot and should not override.
Of course, I wouldn’t be happy about having to essentially co-parent my grandchild under those circumstances, but I’d do it because it would need to be done.
It’s not coddling it’s just parenting. Coddling would be allowing the kid to shirk their share of the parenting duties. There’s a lot a young parent can and should do, even if they’re not yet grown up themselves.
Should read: Do my part to raise my grandchild…
Anything that encourages adolescent females to claim and enjoy their sexuality is fine by me; however, I would not be the one providing me child with a vibrator– that’s just uncomfortable for both of us. Besides, Neutrogena makes (rather awesome, totally discreet) vibrators these days (see: the Wave and the microdermabrasion system). Tell me those weren’t intended to actually be vibrators with a straight face; the microderm one is actually my favorite vibrator ever!
I’m still reeling from “biblical parenting”–ugh. I’ve caught my little guy (7yo) with his hand down his pants and a glazed look over his eyes a number of times. I tell him to be sure to wash his hands when he’s done. I don’t have a daughter, so I’m not sure how I’d handle that situation, but I sure do wish someone had shown/told/bought me something! I remember discovering my own pleasures pretty young –just having my bare skin next to the sheets, with no underwear. Didn’t even need to touch myself to be turned on.
I grew up in NYC and found out about intercourse when I was 6 (I was traumatized for a long time), and I saw sleezy Times Square hookers and XXX 25 cent peep show patrons tons of times (back when that area was like that), but to me it was like a freak show at the travelling circus….a bit scary, and yet strangely magnetic and fascinating. I’m all for a lot more transparency, plus healthy boundaries of course, but lots and lots of clarity as well.
I’m still reeling from “biblical parenting”–ugh. I’ve caught my little guy (7yo) with his hand down his pants and a glazed look over his eyes a number of times. I tell him to be sure to wash his hands when he’s done. I don’t have a daughter, so I’m not sure how I’d handle that situation, but I sure do wish someone had shown/told/bought me something! I remember discovering my own pleasures pretty young –just having my bare skin next to the sheets, with no underwear. Didn’t even need to touch myself to be turned on.
I grew up in NYC and found out about intercourse when I was 6 (I was traumatized for a long time), and I saw cheap Times Square hookers and XXX 25 cent peep show patrons tons of times (back when that area was like that), but to me it was like a freak show at the traveling circus….a bit scary, totally unknown, and yet strangely magnetic and fascinating. I’m all for a lot more transparency, plus healthy boundaries of course, but lots and lots of clarity as well.
Stifling candid conversations about sex is almost never a good idea. Silence on these matters just leads to feelings of guilt or confusion or insecurity regarding perfectly safe, widely-loved things like vibrators.
My boyfriend actually didn’t know that many other women even owned vibrators. He’s twenty-three. To me, this suggests that there is, in general, not nearly enough real information about the devices floating around.
Do they need vibrators to masturbate? I never did as a teen. Hell, most of the time I didn’t even need to borrow a squirt of lotion out of the bathroom.
I’d prefer not to have them lean to heavily on battery operated artillery to get orgasms at that age; it’s just a lot different than the sensation a partner will provide later, and I think kids at that age can get habituated to some stimuli that will make real sex a frustrating endeavor.
Same with boys and porn.
They can jack off all they want, don’t need extra ammo to help them accomplish this at age 16.
Anyway, I did need a bit of instruction in how to do it. But a vibrator wouldn’t have helped.
Oddly, some cheesy women’s mag suggested massaging the clit with olive oil “or something slippery.”
I had tried sticking things in my vagina to no avail before that on numerous occasions. Once I realized I was in the wrong territory, it was all over, but even the world’s most impressive vibrating dildo wouldn’t have cleared that up for me.
@Lyndsay B I agree with your idea about the gift card, given thru another adult, etc. that seems the most open-minded, hands-off, yet non-pressuring way to approach it I’ve heard so far.
You are right-on with your response about parenting teen parents, as well. I WAS a teen parent, and one of my ex-partner’s teen was as well. Neither of us had the situation handled correctly by our parents (no blame here, just hind-sight). I think your balanced approach would have benefited both of us teen moms and our babies, had our parents chosen to handle it the way you propose.
What I mostly try to stress to all teens I encounter (I’ve worked with teens for almost 20 yrs) is that every seemingly small decision you make can really affect you 40, 50, 100 years from now, so decide as wisely and cautiously as you can…b/c dealing with lifetime consequences is no picnic, and is a reality I’ve lived with myself.
Of course all this is said in ongoing dialogue that I can’t reproduce here…but hopefully it’s helped some teen at some time in their life make a better decision than they would have