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	<title>Comments on: Help Me, Harpies!: Dork Edition</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36667</link>
		<dc:creator>rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Endora Yes. Exactly. A while back my boss said: &quot;Find something that you love to do, and you&#039;ll never feel like you are working.&quot; and I just nodded along. Other people repeat that aphorism all the time.

But really I think: that&#039;s pure bullshit. For you, my boss, it depends on the fact that the world values what you love to do. But if you loved to pick lint out of your belly button you&#039;d be s.o.l.

So guess the msg. here boils down to this: you need to follow your bliss with the understanding that it might not lead to money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Endora Yes. Exactly. A while back my boss said: &#8220;Find something that you love to do, and you&#8217;ll never feel like you are working.&#8221; and I just nodded along. Other people repeat that aphorism all the time.</p>
<p>But really I think: that&#8217;s pure bullshit. For you, my boss, it depends on the fact that the world values what you love to do. But if you loved to pick lint out of your belly button you&#8217;d be s.o.l.</p>
<p>So guess the msg. here boils down to this: you need to follow your bliss with the understanding that it might not lead to money.</p>
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		<title>By: Endora</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36645</link>
		<dc:creator>Endora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 08:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And if I can add on to PhDork&#039;s last comment: even if we know that what we want to do is &#039;f&#039;real academia&#039; - academia might not want us.  That&#039;s what we have to keep in mind, even if we decide to give it a go anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if I can add on to PhDork&#8217;s last comment: even if we know that what we want to do is &#8216;f&#8217;real academia&#8217; &#8211; academia might not want us.  That&#8217;s what we have to keep in mind, even if we decide to give it a go anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: s.mc</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36635</link>
		<dc:creator>s.mc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 04:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m de-lurking to say that I would really love a larger conversation on Eep&#039;s question about what to do when you realize that grad school isn&#039;t a great option. What does a person do when all they know is reading, writing and thinking?

As for the question at hand, I&#039;d add my two cents but it&#039;s all been covered. I vote for starting a conversation and seeing if she&#039;s receptive to advice. Personally, none of my advisors have said anything to me about the risks/downsides of grad school yet (and I keep expecting &quot;the talk&quot;), and I would really appreciate an honest, realistic conversation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m de-lurking to say that I would really love a larger conversation on Eep&#8217;s question about what to do when you realize that grad school isn&#8217;t a great option. What does a person do when all they know is reading, writing and thinking?</p>
<p>As for the question at hand, I&#8217;d add my two cents but it&#8217;s all been covered. I vote for starting a conversation and seeing if she&#8217;s receptive to advice. Personally, none of my advisors have said anything to me about the risks/downsides of grad school yet (and I keep expecting &#8220;the talk&#8221;), and I would really appreciate an honest, realistic conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: PhDork</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36632</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dancingteacups, you wrote &quot;But I know in my heart what I want to do with my life, and it’s academia.&quot;

I know that about myself, too.  But my point, and the problem,is:  what we want is &lt;em&gt;our idea/l of academia&lt;/em&gt;.  Which doesn&#039;t exist any more, if it ever really did.  F&#039;real academia is not what we think/thought is is/was.  That&#039;s what&#039;s so crushing, and what I would want my student to know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dancingteacups, you wrote &#8220;But I know in my heart what I want to do with my life, and it’s academia.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know that about myself, too.  But my point, and the problem,is:  what we want is <em>our idea/l of academia</em>.  Which doesn&#8217;t exist any more, if it ever really did.  F&#8217;real academia is not what we think/thought is is/was.  That&#8217;s what&#8217;s so crushing, and what I would want my student to know.</p>
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		<title>By: dancingteacups</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36619</link>
		<dc:creator>dancingteacups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also want to add that not everyone getting a PhD wants to be a professor. I&#039;m fully open to the idea of a career in library science, museums, non-profits or arts admin. But I do want to pursue a PhD, have the opportunity to delve more fully into my research interests, write more papers, and so on. If that seems irresponsible to some people (not saying anyone on here has expressed this attitude, I&#039;m thinking more of my family members), well, it&#039;s my life, my money and my time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also want to add that not everyone getting a PhD wants to be a professor. I&#8217;m fully open to the idea of a career in library science, museums, non-profits or arts admin. But I do want to pursue a PhD, have the opportunity to delve more fully into my research interests, write more papers, and so on. If that seems irresponsible to some people (not saying anyone on here has expressed this attitude, I&#8217;m thinking more of my family members), well, it&#8217;s my life, my money and my time.</p>
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		<title>By: dancingteacups</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36618</link>
		<dc:creator>dancingteacups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone who is currently applying to grad programs in English, I don&#039;t know how I feel about this scenario. (I&#039;m in Canada, where the university system is slightly different.) On the one hand, you have her best interests at heart, but on the other hand this seems a bit... condescending? Given the constant barrage we Humanities students hear about how useless our subjects are and how we&#039;ll never get jobs with English and Philosophy degrees, she&#039;s probably well aware of many of these issues already. If you really want to help I would ask her to come have a chat with you, and start by saying, &quot;I found this reference request by accident, and I was wondering if I could help you with anything relating to your application. Do you have any questions that I can answer?&quot; And take it from there. If she seems well-informed about the risks and trials of an academic life, don&#039;t push it. 

This really does hit home for me because I know many people think I&#039;m applying to graduate programs because I don&#039;t know what else to do. Explaining that I have a passion for research, writing and my chosen field of study really doesn&#039;t dissuade them. For me it&#039;s not that I can&#039;t think of anything else to do -- I certainly can, and have applied to many jobs that seem fun and interesting. But I know in my heart what I want to do with my life, and it&#039;s academia. 

And for the record, no, I haven&#039;t been able to find a job with my lowly English BA, but I think it&#039;s less my &quot;fault&quot; for majoring in something so &quot;unpractical&quot; and more a statement about what kinds of skills our society values. It&#039;s also not a secret that those skills are coded as male. So when I say that I&#039;ve been unemployed for eight months, and people say, &quot;What did you expect with your English degree?&quot;, that really bothers me. I&#039;m sorry that I&#039;m terrible at math and science and that my skills in writing, reading, critical thinking and empathizing aren&#039;t deemed valuable on the job market, but what was I supposed to do, fail out of school halfway through a science degree?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who is currently applying to grad programs in English, I don&#8217;t know how I feel about this scenario. (I&#8217;m in Canada, where the university system is slightly different.) On the one hand, you have her best interests at heart, but on the other hand this seems a bit&#8230; condescending? Given the constant barrage we Humanities students hear about how useless our subjects are and how we&#8217;ll never get jobs with English and Philosophy degrees, she&#8217;s probably well aware of many of these issues already. If you really want to help I would ask her to come have a chat with you, and start by saying, &#8220;I found this reference request by accident, and I was wondering if I could help you with anything relating to your application. Do you have any questions that I can answer?&#8221; And take it from there. If she seems well-informed about the risks and trials of an academic life, don&#8217;t push it. </p>
<p>This really does hit home for me because I know many people think I&#8217;m applying to graduate programs because I don&#8217;t know what else to do. Explaining that I have a passion for research, writing and my chosen field of study really doesn&#8217;t dissuade them. For me it&#8217;s not that I can&#8217;t think of anything else to do &#8212; I certainly can, and have applied to many jobs that seem fun and interesting. But I know in my heart what I want to do with my life, and it&#8217;s academia. </p>
<p>And for the record, no, I haven&#8217;t been able to find a job with my lowly English BA, but I think it&#8217;s less my &#8220;fault&#8221; for majoring in something so &#8220;unpractical&#8221; and more a statement about what kinds of skills our society values. It&#8217;s also not a secret that those skills are coded as male. So when I say that I&#8217;ve been unemployed for eight months, and people say, &#8220;What did you expect with your English degree?&#8221;, that really bothers me. I&#8217;m sorry that I&#8217;m terrible at math and science and that my skills in writing, reading, critical thinking and empathizing aren&#8217;t deemed valuable on the job market, but what was I supposed to do, fail out of school halfway through a science degree?</p>
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		<title>By: PhDork</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36613</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 19:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m reading, lurker.  And I understand your point; it&#039;s exactly why I posted the question.  If I had a closer relationship with this student, I&#039;d feel fine about saying something.  I&#039;m not a stranger, but I&#039;m not her mentor, either.  

And  she might possibly know the job situation and not care, or think it will improve, or feel that she will certainly be in that 17%.   But if she doesn&#039;t know?  It&#039;s about wanting to save her what grief I can down the road, even though I&#039;m not her mentor (if she even has one).  I could not, in good conscience, recommend that any humanities student pursue a PhD at this time, unless they are independently wealthy and approach it as a serious, beloved hobby.

I think I&#039;m going to keep my ear to the ground for the nonce, maybe ask her how applications are going and see if she might be receptive to advice.  It&#039;s not that I want her NOT to go.  It&#039;s that I tremble for her going without having a better picture of the likely outcomes.

ETA:  Again, thanks to all of you for your responses.  They&#039;ve been very helpful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading, lurker.  And I understand your point; it&#8217;s exactly why I posted the question.  If I had a closer relationship with this student, I&#8217;d feel fine about saying something.  I&#8217;m not a stranger, but I&#8217;m not her mentor, either.  </p>
<p>And  she might possibly know the job situation and not care, or think it will improve, or feel that she will certainly be in that 17%.   But if she doesn&#8217;t know?  It&#8217;s about wanting to save her what grief I can down the road, even though I&#8217;m not her mentor (if she even has one).  I could not, in good conscience, recommend that any humanities student pursue a PhD at this time, unless they are independently wealthy and approach it as a serious, beloved hobby.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m going to keep my ear to the ground for the nonce, maybe ask her how applications are going and see if she might be receptive to advice.  It&#8217;s not that I want her NOT to go.  It&#8217;s that I tremble for her going without having a better picture of the likely outcomes.</p>
<p>ETA:  Again, thanks to all of you for your responses.  They&#8217;ve been very helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ratinski</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ratinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t recommend she look into library science instead. I don&#039;t really think you would, but I know of several partially-employed librarians who were talked out of grad school and recommended another sort of grad school, only to find out that library employment is almost as bad off. 

But I agree, mention it. Tell her your own experiences, and let her decide.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t recommend she look into library science instead. I don&#8217;t really think you would, but I know of several partially-employed librarians who were talked out of grad school and recommended another sort of grad school, only to find out that library employment is almost as bad off. </p>
<p>But I agree, mention it. Tell her your own experiences, and let her decide.</p>
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		<title>By: lurker</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36608</link>
		<dc:creator>lurker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 17:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dunno if you&#039;re still reading this thread (or if you care about a lurker&#039;s opinion), but I disagree with the consensus.

Personal aside: I have a major chronic illness. Before my life-saving organ transplant I trudged around NYC for two years with a tube up my nose linked to an oxygen tank in my backpack. I&#039;m a private person, and having to literally wear my most private issue on my face every day was awful. I doubt I made eye contact with anyone for 2 years.

But every so often I&#039;d get approached by someone who just HAD to tell me about this green tea that made breathing easier, or about her cousin&#039;s babysitter&#039;s boyfriend who used to get sick all the time until he started taking Ginseng or whatever. And I knew they were well meaning so I&#039;d just smile and nod and say thanks...but I just wanted to be left alone. Everything that could be done was already being done by me, my family, and my doctors.

My point is that not everyone is receptive to well-meaning strangers. If I were your student I would not want you to approach me. The odds of your imparting something that the student hasn&#039;t already heard are IMHO quite low.

I should note that due to my medical situation, &quot;err on the side of caution&quot; is the guiding principle of my life, so perhaps I&#039;m being too sensitive...but shy, sensitive types tend to be drawn to academia, so it&#039;s possible (likely?) that your student would feel the same as me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno if you&#8217;re still reading this thread (or if you care about a lurker&#8217;s opinion), but I disagree with the consensus.</p>
<p>Personal aside: I have a major chronic illness. Before my life-saving organ transplant I trudged around NYC for two years with a tube up my nose linked to an oxygen tank in my backpack. I&#8217;m a private person, and having to literally wear my most private issue on my face every day was awful. I doubt I made eye contact with anyone for 2 years.</p>
<p>But every so often I&#8217;d get approached by someone who just HAD to tell me about this green tea that made breathing easier, or about her cousin&#8217;s babysitter&#8217;s boyfriend who used to get sick all the time until he started taking Ginseng or whatever. And I knew they were well meaning so I&#8217;d just smile and nod and say thanks&#8230;but I just wanted to be left alone. Everything that could be done was already being done by me, my family, and my doctors.</p>
<p>My point is that not everyone is receptive to well-meaning strangers. If I were your student I would not want you to approach me. The odds of your imparting something that the student hasn&#8217;t already heard are IMHO quite low.</p>
<p>I should note that due to my medical situation, &#8220;err on the side of caution&#8221; is the guiding principle of my life, so perhaps I&#8217;m being too sensitive&#8230;but shy, sensitive types tend to be drawn to academia, so it&#8217;s possible (likely?) that your student would feel the same as me.</p>
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		<title>By: bluebears</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/11/03/help-me-harpies-dork-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-36603</link>
		<dc:creator>bluebears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 16:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=17541#comment-36603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with everyone. Just say something like, listen take this advice or leave it I just would like to share my own experiences...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everyone. Just say something like, listen take this advice or leave it I just would like to share my own experiences&#8230;</p>
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