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	<title>Comments on: Help Me Harpies: I&#8217;m ANGRY!</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Keymaker</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-52928</link>
		<dc:creator>Keymaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 06:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-52928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To counter your mother&#039;s arguments that women and men are differently wired I suggest &quot;Delusions of Gender, How our minds, society, and neurosexism create difference&quot; by Cordelia Fine. Great book that devastates the myths of gender differences and Ms Fine has a sharp, sarcastic, funny style I am sure you will enjoy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To counter your mother&#8217;s arguments that women and men are differently wired I suggest &#8220;Delusions of Gender, How our minds, society, and neurosexism create difference&#8221; by Cordelia Fine. Great book that devastates the myths of gender differences and Ms Fine has a sharp, sarcastic, funny style I am sure you will enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49329</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really, really want to thank all of y&#039;all for this advice! I hope Sam finds it helpful but I know that I&#039;ve learned a lot reading this thread and will be returning to it when I need a little feminist fortifying!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really, really want to thank all of y&#8217;all for this advice! I hope Sam finds it helpful but I know that I&#8217;ve learned a lot reading this thread and will be returning to it when I need a little feminist fortifying!</p>
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		<title>By: molly</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49175</link>
		<dc:creator>molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 05:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Everyone else&#039;s advice has been spot-on. What I want to add (perhaps echoing a few other comments here) is what to do if you decide that you&#039;re emotionally exhausted and your family is not going to be converted, either temporarily or permanently. 

In that case, emotionally detach yourself. Recognize that they&#039;re not going to see the destructive patterns in the world, in the family, or in themselves. Their worldview benefits them in some way, even if just through fear or habit, and they&#039;ve chosen that benefit over other potential happiness you might see for them. If you want to you can see it as a small or sad life, but it&#039;s what they&#039;ve chosen and it&#039;s not your problem. 

Move away when it&#039;s possible, visit when you think it&#039;s valuable, and during those visits enjoy your family for what you love in them. Rise above it all (though try not to sound snooty): Don&#039;t get mired in arguments trying to see your family&#039;s perspective when they&#039;ll only dismiss yours. Be confident in your adult self around your folks instead of regressing into your frustrated teenage self. Don&#039;t laugh at offensive jokes, but don&#039;t argue either. If they pick on you too much, visit less often.

Follow your strong feminist mind, find friends and partners who validate your strong feminist mind, and focus on what makes you feeling happy, accepted, and productive rather than diminished and angry. Best wishes, and thanks for breaking out of the mold.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone else&#8217;s advice has been spot-on. What I want to add (perhaps echoing a few other comments here) is what to do if you decide that you&#8217;re emotionally exhausted and your family is not going to be converted, either temporarily or permanently. </p>
<p>In that case, emotionally detach yourself. Recognize that they&#8217;re not going to see the destructive patterns in the world, in the family, or in themselves. Their worldview benefits them in some way, even if just through fear or habit, and they&#8217;ve chosen that benefit over other potential happiness you might see for them. If you want to you can see it as a small or sad life, but it&#8217;s what they&#8217;ve chosen and it&#8217;s not your problem. </p>
<p>Move away when it&#8217;s possible, visit when you think it&#8217;s valuable, and during those visits enjoy your family for what you love in them. Rise above it all (though try not to sound snooty): Don&#8217;t get mired in arguments trying to see your family&#8217;s perspective when they&#8217;ll only dismiss yours. Be confident in your adult self around your folks instead of regressing into your frustrated teenage self. Don&#8217;t laugh at offensive jokes, but don&#8217;t argue either. If they pick on you too much, visit less often.</p>
<p>Follow your strong feminist mind, find friends and partners who validate your strong feminist mind, and focus on what makes you feeling happy, accepted, and productive rather than diminished and angry. Best wishes, and thanks for breaking out of the mold.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackey</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49168</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 05:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is the reason I love the Harpies&#039; Nest!

Everything that everyone else has said. 
So I thought I would share what I have learnt about anger, and how my understanding of anger has helped me live a life a little less agro and stressy, but no less feeling angry and indignant.

Anger is an emotion, and as I understand this emotion, it&#039;s about setting boundaries (whether for yourself or for others with whom you interact). This emotion says &quot;I won&#039;t tolerate xyz thing&quot;. And in this way anger helps to protect and preserve you (physically, emotionally, morally, ethically), and it also helps to identify when you think there is something wrong and it pushes up against you (physically, emotionally, morally, ethically).

But I learnt, as anger is an emotion, it also means that my actions in response to this emtion do not necessarily need to lead to a loud shouty angry Mackey. 
Instead when I feel angry, I am able to recognise and own what I&#039;m feeling, and then work out what I will do: leave, let the other person know I no longer want to discuss xyz, witty quip [at least I like to think they are :)], in an even tone let someone know that what they did and/or said was inappropriate to me, and of course do activist things.
Though there are times when a loud shouty angry Mackey are of course reasonable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the reason I love the Harpies&#8217; Nest!</p>
<p>Everything that everyone else has said.<br />
So I thought I would share what I have learnt about anger, and how my understanding of anger has helped me live a life a little less agro and stressy, but no less feeling angry and indignant.</p>
<p>Anger is an emotion, and as I understand this emotion, it&#8217;s about setting boundaries (whether for yourself or for others with whom you interact). This emotion says &#8220;I won&#8217;t tolerate xyz thing&#8221;. And in this way anger helps to protect and preserve you (physically, emotionally, morally, ethically), and it also helps to identify when you think there is something wrong and it pushes up against you (physically, emotionally, morally, ethically).</p>
<p>But I learnt, as anger is an emotion, it also means that my actions in response to this emtion do not necessarily need to lead to a loud shouty angry Mackey.<br />
Instead when I feel angry, I am able to recognise and own what I&#8217;m feeling, and then work out what I will do: leave, let the other person know I no longer want to discuss xyz, witty quip [at least I like to think they are <img src='http://www.harpyness.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ], in an even tone let someone know that what they did and/or said was inappropriate to me, and of course do activist things.<br />
Though there are times when a loud shouty angry Mackey are of course reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Help Me Harpies: I’m ANGRY! - The Pursuit of Harpyness -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49044</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Help Me Harpies: I’m ANGRY! - The Pursuit of Harpyness -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 23:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by eccentric yoruba. eccentric yoruba said: Help Me Harpies: I’m ANGRY! http://bit.ly/h2Il1x [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by eccentric yoruba. eccentric yoruba said: Help Me Harpies: I’m ANGRY! <a href="http://bit.ly/h2Il1x" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/h2Il1x</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49020</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 22:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Samantha, I admire and support what you&#039;re doing.  Stay strong!

Your brothers are being confronted, probably for the first time, with a challenge to their male power.  And they don&#039;t like it, so they respond with loud voices and intimidation and belittling and silencing techniques.  In other words, they fall back on all the tools of the trade.  

I agree with everyone else who says that we can&#039;t beat them at their own game, so we have to play our own.  Letting them know, coolly and consistently, that you see through their privilege will give you strength, even if they never get a clue.

And I have no problem cutting off family or friends who are hurtful or abusive.  You didn&#039;t choose them and they don&#039;t deserve you.  You may not decide to remove yourself from contact with them, but just knowing you can might make you feel more in control.

We&#039;re all with you!  *hugs*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samantha, I admire and support what you&#8217;re doing.  Stay strong!</p>
<p>Your brothers are being confronted, probably for the first time, with a challenge to their male power.  And they don&#8217;t like it, so they respond with loud voices and intimidation and belittling and silencing techniques.  In other words, they fall back on all the tools of the trade.  </p>
<p>I agree with everyone else who says that we can&#8217;t beat them at their own game, so we have to play our own.  Letting them know, coolly and consistently, that you see through their privilege will give you strength, even if they never get a clue.</p>
<p>And I have no problem cutting off family or friends who are hurtful or abusive.  You didn&#8217;t choose them and they don&#8217;t deserve you.  You may not decide to remove yourself from contact with them, but just knowing you can might make you feel more in control.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re all with you!  *hugs*</p>
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		<title>By: baraqiel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49008</link>
		<dc:creator>baraqiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 21:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@bella - what you said exactly.  I would especially like to echo the suggestion to desensitize.  For one thing, as a general rule, what people say to your face will almost never be as bad or as unambiguous or as harsh as what they&#039;ll say online, when they&#039;re faceless.  Second, as you say, you learn much better how to craft a rebuttal when you observe how whatever individual stance that you encounter in person is part of a whole system that depends on a few key lies.  There are many different battles to be fought but it&#039;s all the same war.

Also, I don&#039;t know if you have the resources for this, Samantha, but if you do, you might find it very useful to learn how to look up and read scientific papers specifically so that when people pull this &quot;oh, some study a couple of years ago found this I think...&quot; thing, you can legitimately say, &quot;there was a study about this, this was the methodology, these were the findings, and this is why it (is or isn&#039;t) valid&quot;.  If you really want to pursue debate with your brothers, learn about argumentation, logical fallacies, and how to craft a point that&#039;s both correct and cutting.  Rhetoric is just as important in debates as logic is (somewhat unfortunately).  If, as Ms. Pinot said, you can manage to deliver your points in a controlled tone, especially if you can make them pithy or witty, you&#039;ll get a lot further (especially in front of any sort of audience) than if you approach it in a tone of righteous anger.

As for your mother: I&#039;m not trying to excuse her actions, which are doubtlessly hurtful and isolating.  However (and this is something I&#039;m having to learn myself as my family has recently gone through an...episode in which my older brother said some incredibly hurtful things to me), she has different priorities than you do -- it&#039;s probably much more important to her that her children have some semblance of a relationship and that her family is able to all interact in a loving way than it is to you, and in the service of that goal, she&#039;s asking you to let go of some of your principles when it comes to interactions with your brothers.  It seems likely that she knows she has a better chance of prevailing on you to let things drop than to prevail on them to not be asshats.  This is unfair.  It sucks.  But on some level, you have a much better chance of helping your mother and having a healthy relationship with her if you are willing to see things from her perspective.  She did something really scary and hard -- she ended an abusive relationship.  She is not, it seems, ready to risk ending her relationship with her sons by recognizing and condemning how they are mistreating both of you.  She may never be ready.  I think it would not be the best use of your energies to try to make her be ready.  Guard yourself, protect yourself -- partition yourself if you need to.  Try not to look at your mother&#039;s actions as a betrayal of you but as a result of the system that has shaped her her entire life and that she cannot, now, entirely escape.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bella &#8211; what you said exactly.  I would especially like to echo the suggestion to desensitize.  For one thing, as a general rule, what people say to your face will almost never be as bad or as unambiguous or as harsh as what they&#8217;ll say online, when they&#8217;re faceless.  Second, as you say, you learn much better how to craft a rebuttal when you observe how whatever individual stance that you encounter in person is part of a whole system that depends on a few key lies.  There are many different battles to be fought but it&#8217;s all the same war.</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t know if you have the resources for this, Samantha, but if you do, you might find it very useful to learn how to look up and read scientific papers specifically so that when people pull this &#8220;oh, some study a couple of years ago found this I think&#8230;&#8221; thing, you can legitimately say, &#8220;there was a study about this, this was the methodology, these were the findings, and this is why it (is or isn&#8217;t) valid&#8221;.  If you really want to pursue debate with your brothers, learn about argumentation, logical fallacies, and how to craft a point that&#8217;s both correct and cutting.  Rhetoric is just as important in debates as logic is (somewhat unfortunately).  If, as Ms. Pinot said, you can manage to deliver your points in a controlled tone, especially if you can make them pithy or witty, you&#8217;ll get a lot further (especially in front of any sort of audience) than if you approach it in a tone of righteous anger.</p>
<p>As for your mother: I&#8217;m not trying to excuse her actions, which are doubtlessly hurtful and isolating.  However (and this is something I&#8217;m having to learn myself as my family has recently gone through an&#8230;episode in which my older brother said some incredibly hurtful things to me), she has different priorities than you do &#8212; it&#8217;s probably much more important to her that her children have some semblance of a relationship and that her family is able to all interact in a loving way than it is to you, and in the service of that goal, she&#8217;s asking you to let go of some of your principles when it comes to interactions with your brothers.  It seems likely that she knows she has a better chance of prevailing on you to let things drop than to prevail on them to not be asshats.  This is unfair.  It sucks.  But on some level, you have a much better chance of helping your mother and having a healthy relationship with her if you are willing to see things from her perspective.  She did something really scary and hard &#8212; she ended an abusive relationship.  She is not, it seems, ready to risk ending her relationship with her sons by recognizing and condemning how they are mistreating both of you.  She may never be ready.  I think it would not be the best use of your energies to try to make her be ready.  Guard yourself, protect yourself &#8212; partition yourself if you need to.  Try not to look at your mother&#8217;s actions as a betrayal of you but as a result of the system that has shaped her her entire life and that she cannot, now, entirely escape.</p>
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		<title>By: Awkward Avenger</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-49002</link>
		<dc:creator>Awkward Avenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 21:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-49002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hang in there, Samantha.  It&#039;s often very lonely being a feminist, even when surrounded by people who are supposed to love and at least try to understand us, or among people of whom we expect better.

I think we have two options: exist miserably in the patriarchy and remain resistant to feminism, or exist miserably in the patriarchy and embrace feminism.  At least with the latter option, we have the chance to recognize that we have choices and that things don&#039;t have to be this way, even if others don&#039;t get it.

I can&#039;t explain just how thankful I am that I am alive as a feminist during a time when the internet exists.  At least here I can find other like-minded people and read uplifting material from amazing bloggers like the Harpies.  I think back to how much harder it must have been for women&#039;s rights crusaders to connect with each other 100 years ago.  No matter how bad things get in &quot;real&quot; life, remember that you always have a whole universe of genuine, decent people at your fingertips.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hang in there, Samantha.  It&#8217;s often very lonely being a feminist, even when surrounded by people who are supposed to love and at least try to understand us, or among people of whom we expect better.</p>
<p>I think we have two options: exist miserably in the patriarchy and remain resistant to feminism, or exist miserably in the patriarchy and embrace feminism.  At least with the latter option, we have the chance to recognize that we have choices and that things don&#8217;t have to be this way, even if others don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t explain just how thankful I am that I am alive as a feminist during a time when the internet exists.  At least here I can find other like-minded people and read uplifting material from amazing bloggers like the Harpies.  I think back to how much harder it must have been for women&#8217;s rights crusaders to connect with each other 100 years ago.  No matter how bad things get in &#8220;real&#8221; life, remember that you always have a whole universe of genuine, decent people at your fingertips.</p>
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		<title>By: rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-48933</link>
		<dc:creator>rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-48933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wow Bella there is so much awesome packed into what you said]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow Bella there is so much awesome packed into what you said</p>
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		<title>By: bellacoker</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2010/12/22/help-me-harpies-im-angry/comment-page-1/#comment-48875</link>
		<dc:creator>bellacoker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18063#comment-48875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, what you are feeling is very, very common among feminists, perhaps close to universal.  
I even think even if you had a storybook childhood the difference between the world we were told that we live in and the world we find out we actually live in is quite a slap in the face.  The anger that you are feeling is a natural, rational way to begin to process that discrepancy, and a natural and rational way to respond to people who continue to tell you that things that are contrary to your own observations and expect you to believe them without question.   
I have this advice:

You can’t choose your family, but you can choose your friends.  And you should choose friends who support the things that you believe in and who support you.  There is absolutely no reason to fight this fight on two fronts.

Pay attention to how good we, as women in 21st century, have it.  It’s easy to get caught up on the injustice of the world, the terrible things that happen, and the battles which have not been won, but that is not the whole story.  We have things to celebrate.

If you can stand it, desensitize yourself to the other side’s opinions.  I listen to a lot of talk radio and watch Fox news, and have often been told that I do so because I like being angry.  But really, I do it so I will not be angry, so I can listen to people with different opinions and world views and just say, “This is what some people think.”  Then, when I am sitting on a plane next to someone who thinks Obama might be a Muslim or at a family gathering where someone is being sexist, I have already practiced listening to people who I believe are wrong.  I’ve gotten good at it, and can say, “I think you are mistaken and this is why . . .” instead of, “You are a horrible person!  How could you possibly think that?!”  

Realize that by coming to feminism what you have done is abandon one worldview and replaced it with another.  That is a huge thing; a lot of people never do it once in their lives.  But once you realize that worldviews can be changed and outgrown, it is impossible not to keep shedding your beliefs over and over as you grow and learn new things and have new experiences.  This is hard and it hurts every time.  It means that we will come to realize that many of the things we love believing (even as feminists) are wrong or incomplete.  It means that over and over again we will come to see our previous actions with frightening and embarrassing clarity.  When people you love are wrong, be as gentle with them as you can, because they may eventually come to that place as well.  

Finally, be gentle with yourself too.  You’re doing what you can, and you’re not alone. 

-Bella]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, what you are feeling is very, very common among feminists, perhaps close to universal.<br />
I even think even if you had a storybook childhood the difference between the world we were told that we live in and the world we find out we actually live in is quite a slap in the face.  The anger that you are feeling is a natural, rational way to begin to process that discrepancy, and a natural and rational way to respond to people who continue to tell you that things that are contrary to your own observations and expect you to believe them without question.<br />
I have this advice:</p>
<p>You can’t choose your family, but you can choose your friends.  And you should choose friends who support the things that you believe in and who support you.  There is absolutely no reason to fight this fight on two fronts.</p>
<p>Pay attention to how good we, as women in 21st century, have it.  It’s easy to get caught up on the injustice of the world, the terrible things that happen, and the battles which have not been won, but that is not the whole story.  We have things to celebrate.</p>
<p>If you can stand it, desensitize yourself to the other side’s opinions.  I listen to a lot of talk radio and watch Fox news, and have often been told that I do so because I like being angry.  But really, I do it so I will not be angry, so I can listen to people with different opinions and world views and just say, “This is what some people think.”  Then, when I am sitting on a plane next to someone who thinks Obama might be a Muslim or at a family gathering where someone is being sexist, I have already practiced listening to people who I believe are wrong.  I’ve gotten good at it, and can say, “I think you are mistaken and this is why . . .” instead of, “You are a horrible person!  How could you possibly think that?!”  </p>
<p>Realize that by coming to feminism what you have done is abandon one worldview and replaced it with another.  That is a huge thing; a lot of people never do it once in their lives.  But once you realize that worldviews can be changed and outgrown, it is impossible not to keep shedding your beliefs over and over as you grow and learn new things and have new experiences.  This is hard and it hurts every time.  It means that we will come to realize that many of the things we love believing (even as feminists) are wrong or incomplete.  It means that over and over again we will come to see our previous actions with frightening and embarrassing clarity.  When people you love are wrong, be as gentle with them as you can, because they may eventually come to that place as well.  </p>
<p>Finally, be gentle with yourself too.  You’re doing what you can, and you’re not alone. </p>
<p>-Bella</p>
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