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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;You&#8217;re not matin&#8217; with me Sunshine!&#8221;: Some Thoughts on Relationships and Difference</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-63000</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 23:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-63000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I eagerly await a female successor to Dan, who is as fearless as he has been and as willing to make himself a target of every loony in the country in the name of better sex and better relationships.  I cannot for the life of me figure out where the accusation of misogyny comes from, and I&#039;m pretty touch about that sort of thing.  

Like it or not, asexuals are a vast minority.  Dan didn&#039;t make it that way and he couldn&#039;t change it even if he wanted to.  Blaming him for being accurate about the sexual disconnect between them and sexuals seems misplaced.  At least he&#039;s talking about it.  Who else with his readership is?

I also think some readers are missing the point with his fat marriage analogy.  There are those who feel that fat people are disgusting, unnatural, a bad influence, etc etc-just as there are with gays.  I think he was trying to draw that parallel and say that any individual&#039;s personal feelings about a minority group don&#039;t get to dictate the rights and privileges group members are allowed to enjoy in our society.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I eagerly await a female successor to Dan, who is as fearless as he has been and as willing to make himself a target of every loony in the country in the name of better sex and better relationships.  I cannot for the life of me figure out where the accusation of misogyny comes from, and I&#8217;m pretty touch about that sort of thing.  </p>
<p>Like it or not, asexuals are a vast minority.  Dan didn&#8217;t make it that way and he couldn&#8217;t change it even if he wanted to.  Blaming him for being accurate about the sexual disconnect between them and sexuals seems misplaced.  At least he&#8217;s talking about it.  Who else with his readership is?</p>
<p>I also think some readers are missing the point with his fat marriage analogy.  There are those who feel that fat people are disgusting, unnatural, a bad influence, etc etc-just as there are with gays.  I think he was trying to draw that parallel and say that any individual&#8217;s personal feelings about a minority group don&#8217;t get to dictate the rights and privileges group members are allowed to enjoy in our society.</p>
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		<title>By: viajera</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62997</link>
		<dc:creator>viajera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@baraqiel - duly noted.  As of yesterday afternoon, when I read about this, the only response he had posted was the link to his Kate Harding slam, with no indication there would be a further response later.  I&#039;m glad he responded.  I still take issue with a lot of things he said in that response, but that&#039;s off-topic here, so I digress.  Regardless, the rest of my comment still stands.  DS describes Lindy&#039;s response as an over-reaction and a matter of projection of her own issues, which I might buy if this was the first time he&#039;s engaged in and been called out on his fat-shaming or misogyny.  But this has been going on for years now, and I think this was the proverbial last straw for a lot of folks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@baraqiel &#8211; duly noted.  As of yesterday afternoon, when I read about this, the only response he had posted was the link to his Kate Harding slam, with no indication there would be a further response later.  I&#8217;m glad he responded.  I still take issue with a lot of things he said in that response, but that&#8217;s off-topic here, so I digress.  Regardless, the rest of my comment still stands.  DS describes Lindy&#8217;s response as an over-reaction and a matter of projection of her own issues, which I might buy if this was the first time he&#8217;s engaged in and been called out on his fat-shaming or misogyny.  But this has been going on for years now, and I think this was the proverbial last straw for a lot of folks.</p>
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		<title>By: dillene</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62996</link>
		<dc:creator>dillene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@baraqiel- &quot; . . . he &#039;was out of email, cell, and Internet range all weekend, starting Friday afternoon, and didn’t get a chance to really sit down and read Lindy’s post until late last night, and that’s why I’m only just responding to it now&#039;&quot;.

What flaming bullshit.  Apparently he wasn&#039;t too far out of communication range to rehash the reply he wrote to Kate Harding years earlier- and to repost it with the comments section closed.  
So yeah, I don&#039;t particularly care for Dan Savage.  There are other sex-positive and inclusive writers out there, and many of them are not One Man Cavalcades of Fat-Phobic and Misogynist Fail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@baraqiel- &#8221; . . . he &#8216;was out of email, cell, and Internet range all weekend, starting Friday afternoon, and didn’t get a chance to really sit down and read Lindy’s post until late last night, and that’s why I’m only just responding to it now&#8217;&#8221;.</p>
<p>What flaming bullshit.  Apparently he wasn&#8217;t too far out of communication range to rehash the reply he wrote to Kate Harding years earlier- and to repost it with the comments section closed.<br />
So yeah, I don&#8217;t particularly care for Dan Savage.  There are other sex-positive and inclusive writers out there, and many of them are not One Man Cavalcades of Fat-Phobic and Misogynist Fail.</p>
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		<title>By: baraqiel</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62994</link>
		<dc:creator>baraqiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@viajera - &quot;He couldn’t even be bothered to write an original response, to his own colleague and employee!&quot;

This is not true.  He posted one yesterday: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-im-not-the-enemy

In it, you&#039;ll see that he &quot;was out of email, cell, and Internet range all weekend, starting Friday afternoon, and didn&#039;t get a chance to really sit down and read Lindy&#039;s post until late last night, and that&#039;s why I&#039;m only just responding to it now&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@viajera &#8211; &#8220;He couldn’t even be bothered to write an original response, to his own colleague and employee!&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not true.  He posted one yesterday: <a href="http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-im-not-the-enemy" rel="nofollow">http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-im-not-the-enemy</a></p>
<p>In it, you&#8217;ll see that he &#8220;was out of email, cell, and Internet range all weekend, starting Friday afternoon, and didn&#8217;t get a chance to really sit down and read Lindy&#8217;s post until late last night, and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m only just responding to it now&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: BeckySharper</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62988</link>
		<dc:creator>BeckySharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt; likewise a person who says 80% really good stuff but 20% of the time comes off as a defensive judgemental dude … the 80% is part of the picture, but doesn’t let him off the hook for the 20%. &lt;/em&gt;

That summarizes precisely how I feel about Dan Savage. I generally have a lot of time for him---I think he gets it right much, much more often than he gets it wrong, and I appreciate his extremely sex-positive, pro-kink attitude, as well as the aggressive, no-holds-barred way he attacks conservative homophobes and misogynists (who among us can hear the name &quot;Santorum&quot; anymore without snickering?)

The fat-phobia, I have a big problem with. This most recent column I think he screwed up with his tone, and he does have a record of general sneering towards bisexuals that offends me. I do agree with his general advice, though that if you and your partner have real differences in sexual needs and desires, you will almost certainly not be happy in the long run. He routinely says that to everyone, gay, straight, kinky, non-kinky, etc, and I think it&#039;s very solid advice.

Oh, and for the record, I think the IGB campaign is pure awesomeness. As a straight ally, I have seen first-hand how effective it&#039;s been in terms of getting complacent straight people to look at their own privilege and acknowledge how painful and destructive homophobia and bullying are instead of just dismissing it. Honestly, I&#039;ve so many straight people have lightbulb moments watching some of those videos, and I think that&#039;s enormously valuable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> likewise a person who says 80% really good stuff but 20% of the time comes off as a defensive judgemental dude … the 80% is part of the picture, but doesn’t let him off the hook for the 20%. </em></p>
<p>That summarizes precisely how I feel about Dan Savage. I generally have a lot of time for him&#8212;I think he gets it right much, much more often than he gets it wrong, and I appreciate his extremely sex-positive, pro-kink attitude, as well as the aggressive, no-holds-barred way he attacks conservative homophobes and misogynists (who among us can hear the name &#8220;Santorum&#8221; anymore without snickering?)</p>
<p>The fat-phobia, I have a big problem with. This most recent column I think he screwed up with his tone, and he does have a record of general sneering towards bisexuals that offends me. I do agree with his general advice, though that if you and your partner have real differences in sexual needs and desires, you will almost certainly not be happy in the long run. He routinely says that to everyone, gay, straight, kinky, non-kinky, etc, and I think it&#8217;s very solid advice.</p>
<p>Oh, and for the record, I think the IGB campaign is pure awesomeness. As a straight ally, I have seen first-hand how effective it&#8217;s been in terms of getting complacent straight people to look at their own privilege and acknowledge how painful and destructive homophobia and bullying are instead of just dismissing it. Honestly, I&#8217;ve so many straight people have lightbulb moments watching some of those videos, and I think that&#8217;s enormously valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: annajcook</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62984</link>
		<dc:creator>annajcook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As promised, a few further thoughts in relation to the pro-Savage points that people have brought up.

First, I want to reiterate that I think Dan Savage does a lot of good work. As I wrote in the original post, I think his books about adoption and marriage are really good. I also appreciate his frank, sex-positive sex advice. And in many instances, as commenters have pointed out, he offers really sound advice about relationships. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything wrong with encouraging people to seek out sexual partners who not only respect but ENJOY one&#039;s particular sexual preferences (whether it comes to sexual orientation, level of libido, of types of sexual activity).

I&#039;ve seen a lot of good come out of the &quot;It Gets Better&quot; project ... including criticism of the original message of the project, which has in turn blossomed into further anti-bullying activism and fruitful conversation within the queer community. 

However, I don&#039;t believe any of this puts any one thing he writes above criticism. And while the context of his entire body of work is important in assessing one particular response, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s invalid to say, &quot;Gee, that response you gave just now sent up red flags for me, and here&#039;s why!&quot; 

As a person who is bisexual/fluid and is partnered with someone who identifies as bi, I can tell you that having a gay man suggest that bisexual people might just be happier sticking with bisexuals taps into a long history of stigma within the queer community against people whose sexuality was more fluid than their gay or lesbian peers. Even in the present day there&#039;s a lot of anxiety and denial around bisexuality in the queer community. So when Dan Savage writes that maybe bisexual people should quit complaining and just date other bisexuals, that seems like fairly hurtful advice. If nothing else, that&#039;s suggesting to someone they narrow an already narrow range of dating options to a pretty miniscule pool of people.

Finally, in response to the folks who think it&#039;s unfortunate that feminists are critiquing Dan Savage given his sex-positive, queer-positive messages (though he sometimes displays a stunning insensitivity and/or ignorance about lesbian sexuality). I get your point that there are &quot;bigger fish to fry.&quot; But I don&#039;t think &quot;being better than that other guy&quot; should mean we lower our standards of critique when someone says something shitty. Feminists shouldn&#039;t be immune to criticism by other feminists simply for being &quot;on our side,&quot; and likewise a person who says 80% really good stuff but 20% of the time comes off as a defensive judgemental dude ... the 80% is part of the picture, but doesn&#039;t let him off the hook for the 20%.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As promised, a few further thoughts in relation to the pro-Savage points that people have brought up.</p>
<p>First, I want to reiterate that I think Dan Savage does a lot of good work. As I wrote in the original post, I think his books about adoption and marriage are really good. I also appreciate his frank, sex-positive sex advice. And in many instances, as commenters have pointed out, he offers really sound advice about relationships. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything wrong with encouraging people to seek out sexual partners who not only respect but ENJOY one&#8217;s particular sexual preferences (whether it comes to sexual orientation, level of libido, of types of sexual activity).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen a lot of good come out of the &#8220;It Gets Better&#8221; project &#8230; including criticism of the original message of the project, which has in turn blossomed into further anti-bullying activism and fruitful conversation within the queer community. </p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t believe any of this puts any one thing he writes above criticism. And while the context of his entire body of work is important in assessing one particular response, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s invalid to say, &#8220;Gee, that response you gave just now sent up red flags for me, and here&#8217;s why!&#8221; </p>
<p>As a person who is bisexual/fluid and is partnered with someone who identifies as bi, I can tell you that having a gay man suggest that bisexual people might just be happier sticking with bisexuals taps into a long history of stigma within the queer community against people whose sexuality was more fluid than their gay or lesbian peers. Even in the present day there&#8217;s a lot of anxiety and denial around bisexuality in the queer community. So when Dan Savage writes that maybe bisexual people should quit complaining and just date other bisexuals, that seems like fairly hurtful advice. If nothing else, that&#8217;s suggesting to someone they narrow an already narrow range of dating options to a pretty miniscule pool of people.</p>
<p>Finally, in response to the folks who think it&#8217;s unfortunate that feminists are critiquing Dan Savage given his sex-positive, queer-positive messages (though he sometimes displays a stunning insensitivity and/or ignorance about lesbian sexuality). I get your point that there are &#8220;bigger fish to fry.&#8221; But I don&#8217;t think &#8220;being better than that other guy&#8221; should mean we lower our standards of critique when someone says something shitty. Feminists shouldn&#8217;t be immune to criticism by other feminists simply for being &#8220;on our side,&#8221; and likewise a person who says 80% really good stuff but 20% of the time comes off as a defensive judgemental dude &#8230; the 80% is part of the picture, but doesn&#8217;t let him off the hook for the 20%.</p>
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		<title>By: viajera</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62983</link>
		<dc:creator>viajera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I came in to link to Lindy West&#039;s awesome response (linked by bluebears above) and Melissa McEwan&#039;s equally awesome response (linked by Raerae above), but I see I&#039;ve been beat to the punch.  I&#039;m fat, lean towards bisexual, and kinky, so I have really mixed feelings about Dan Savage.  I love what he&#039;s done for &#039;normalizing&#039; kink and encouraging sex-positivity.  But the guy is serially fatphobic, misogynist, and has serious issues with bisexuals - as others have mentioned above, and as both Melissa and Lindy demonstrate w/ multiple links (which still just scratch the surface) in their posts.  His edginess is cool to a point - but all too often, he takes it to such an extreme that it just makes him a jerk.  The recent &quot;ban fat marriage&quot; dustup (engaging in anti-fat bullying in an attempt to demonstrate the error in anti-gay bullying) is just the latest example.  Which he followed up by &#039;responding&#039; to Lindy West&#039;s calling-out post by reposting a (assholish) response he wrote to Kate Harding several years ago (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-i-am-fine-with-that).  He couldn&#039;t even be bothered to write an original response, to his own colleague and employee!  I like some of his advice and I&#039;d like to like him, but I just can&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came in to link to Lindy West&#8217;s awesome response (linked by bluebears above) and Melissa McEwan&#8217;s equally awesome response (linked by Raerae above), but I see I&#8217;ve been beat to the punch.  I&#8217;m fat, lean towards bisexual, and kinky, so I have really mixed feelings about Dan Savage.  I love what he&#8217;s done for &#8216;normalizing&#8217; kink and encouraging sex-positivity.  But the guy is serially fatphobic, misogynist, and has serious issues with bisexuals &#8211; as others have mentioned above, and as both Melissa and Lindy demonstrate w/ multiple links (which still just scratch the surface) in their posts.  His edginess is cool to a point &#8211; but all too often, he takes it to such an extreme that it just makes him a jerk.  The recent &#8220;ban fat marriage&#8221; dustup (engaging in anti-fat bullying in an attempt to demonstrate the error in anti-gay bullying) is just the latest example.  Which he followed up by &#8216;responding&#8217; to Lindy West&#8217;s calling-out post by reposting a (assholish) response he wrote to Kate Harding several years ago (<a href="http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-i-am-fine-with-that" rel="nofollow">http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/14/hello-i-am-fine-with-that</a>).  He couldn&#8217;t even be bothered to write an original response, to his own colleague and employee!  I like some of his advice and I&#8217;d like to like him, but I just can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Raerae</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62972</link>
		<dc:creator>Raerae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I&#039;m not new to Harpyness, but I&#039;ve never commented before. Just thought I&#039;d direct some attention to one of Fannie&#039;s recent posts up on Shakesville. It deals with Dan&#039;s track record on the issue of fat-hatred.

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/02/dan-savage-please-stop.html#]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m not new to Harpyness, but I&#8217;ve never commented before. Just thought I&#8217;d direct some attention to one of Fannie&#8217;s recent posts up on Shakesville. It deals with Dan&#8217;s track record on the issue of fat-hatred.</p>
<p><a href="http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/02/dan-savage-please-stop.html#" rel="nofollow">http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/02/dan-savage-please-stop.html#</a></p>
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		<title>By: bluebears</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62969</link>
		<dc:creator>bluebears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great discussion. Unfortunately I fall in the camp that finds Dan Savage&#039;s writing and commentary extremely problematic. 

I have a lot of respect for the good he&#039;s contributed but I feel like because of this he&#039;s often given a pass on his more troubling views (views that the OP and other commenters have already elaborated on).

The problem is, when he gets called on some of his more offensive comments he tends to become very defensive. He either offers some terse, clearly not heartfelt &quot;apology&quot; or claims that the offense taken is not justified as he was simply being humorous. 

Also has everyone read this amazing response on The Stranger to Dan Savage&#039;s persistent fat shaming? It&#039;s awesome.

 http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/11/hello-i-am-fat#more]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion. Unfortunately I fall in the camp that finds Dan Savage&#8217;s writing and commentary extremely problematic. </p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for the good he&#8217;s contributed but I feel like because of this he&#8217;s often given a pass on his more troubling views (views that the OP and other commenters have already elaborated on).</p>
<p>The problem is, when he gets called on some of his more offensive comments he tends to become very defensive. He either offers some terse, clearly not heartfelt &#8220;apology&#8221; or claims that the offense taken is not justified as he was simply being humorous. </p>
<p>Also has everyone read this amazing response on The Stranger to Dan Savage&#8217;s persistent fat shaming? It&#8217;s awesome.</p>
<p> <a href="http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/11/hello-i-am-fat#more" rel="nofollow">http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/11/hello-i-am-fat#more</a></p>
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		<title>By: annajcook</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/14/so-call-me-romantic-differing-sexualities-and-the-realm-of-possibility/comment-page-1/#comment-62967</link>
		<dc:creator>annajcook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=18862#comment-62967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@martha

Since the article by femmephane I linked to, critiquing the &quot;It Gets Better&quot; project frustrated/angered you so much, &lt;a href=&quot;http://tempcontretemps.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/643/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you may be interested in the follow-up the author wrote&lt;/a&gt;, in response to the feedback she received from readers. She doesn&#039;t retract her analysis in any way, but she does make it clear that she is not interested in dismissing the project wholesale.

I don&#039;t want this thread to turn into a referendum on the IGB project ... but since the link bothered you, I thought you might be interested in a little more context.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@martha</p>
<p>Since the article by femmephane I linked to, critiquing the &#8220;It Gets Better&#8221; project frustrated/angered you so much, <a href="http://tempcontretemps.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/643/" rel="nofollow">you may be interested in the follow-up the author wrote</a>, in response to the feedback she received from readers. She doesn&#8217;t retract her analysis in any way, but she does make it clear that she is not interested in dismissing the project wholesale.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want this thread to turn into a referendum on the IGB project &#8230; but since the link bothered you, I thought you might be interested in a little more context.</p>
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