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	<title>Comments on: Righteous Rebuttals</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Harpy Seminar: Is Voting a Duty? - The Pursuit of Harpyness</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-64264</link>
		<dc:creator>Harpy Seminar: Is Voting a Duty? - The Pursuit of Harpyness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-64264</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Judith, over at Radically Queer, wrote a post recently in response to a conversation in comments at Pursuit of Harpyness about voting as a citizenship responsibility. She argues, in part: The [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Judith, over at Radically Queer, wrote a post recently in response to a conversation in comments at Pursuit of Harpyness about voting as a citizenship responsibility. She argues, in part: The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nepenthe</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63599</link>
		<dc:creator>Nepenthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@PosedByModels

I think job security is a huge issue for younger feminists starting out their careers and why we seem to be drawn to anonymous forms of activism. What if my boss finds out that I&#039;m a PP escort? The career guidance at my uni is pretty much &quot;don&#039;t say anything controversial that can be associated with your name&quot; and I think it&#039;s a legitimate concern.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PosedByModels</p>
<p>I think job security is a huge issue for younger feminists starting out their careers and why we seem to be drawn to anonymous forms of activism. What if my boss finds out that I&#8217;m a PP escort? The career guidance at my uni is pretty much &#8220;don&#8217;t say anything controversial that can be associated with your name&#8221; and I think it&#8217;s a legitimate concern.</p>
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		<title>By: PosedbyModels</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63521</link>
		<dc:creator>PosedbyModels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In other (more relevant, maybe) news, these brave women give me hope for humanity and I am so grateful for their work and commitment. I am going to use writing them thank-you letters as an excuse for productive procrastination this afternoon!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other (more relevant, maybe) news, these brave women give me hope for humanity and I am so grateful for their work and commitment. I am going to use writing them thank-you letters as an excuse for productive procrastination this afternoon!</p>
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		<title>By: PosedbyModels</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63520</link>
		<dc:creator>PosedbyModels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would just like to point out that one reason I suspect it might be difficult to find women in their 20s and 30s to work as clinic escorts is that many women within that age range are probably either in school or working full time, if not both. Older people who have some sort of regular schedule or job security or reliable days off probably have a little more freedom to do that kind of work. Clearly this is not the case for everyone, but in thinking about my own (20-year-old) life/schedule and lives/schedules of the women my age around me, even if I had the time to work as a clinic escort, I&#039;m not sure I have the emotional stability to do it.

Also, I&#039;d like to be on the record as saying I absolutely refuse to accept this totally bizarre and unfair notion that we&#039;re not doing any work for women or for feminism, but that&#039;s another story I guess.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just like to point out that one reason I suspect it might be difficult to find women in their 20s and 30s to work as clinic escorts is that many women within that age range are probably either in school or working full time, if not both. Older people who have some sort of regular schedule or job security or reliable days off probably have a little more freedom to do that kind of work. Clearly this is not the case for everyone, but in thinking about my own (20-year-old) life/schedule and lives/schedules of the women my age around me, even if I had the time to work as a clinic escort, I&#8217;m not sure I have the emotional stability to do it.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d like to be on the record as saying I absolutely refuse to accept this totally bizarre and unfair notion that we&#8217;re not doing any work for women or for feminism, but that&#8217;s another story I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: jennygadget</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63483</link>
		<dc:creator>jennygadget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM

Ha!  That totally matches up with something I was trying to explain to someone else ages ago - about how, when arguing with (good faith) dissenters on feminist blogs, it actually seems to work best to have a &quot;good cop/bad cop&quot; dynamic going on.

It&#039;s never intentional, as far as I can tell, but the best way to get a dissenter to admit they were wrong seems to be to have one person (or more) arguing passionately, without any regard for &quot;tone&quot; and then have another (or more) back the other(s) up, but in more measured, patient tones.

The dissenter does still tend to be all &quot;why can&#039;t you meanies be like her????&quot; but (from my limited observation) they are much more likely to admit the original point is valid.

However, if you only have the patient, measured comments replying to the dissenter, the dissenter is much more likely to stick to their original view.

My guess is that both the passion and the logic are needed.  The passion is needed to jolt them out of complacency  - or treating it all as simply a logic exercise, the patience is needed to make it hard for them to get away with only reacting to the passion and not also the actual arguments.

Also, getting to make the &quot;tone&quot; argument, even while agreeing they were in the wrong, helps them save face and feel less threatened by admitting wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM</p>
<p>Ha!  That totally matches up with something I was trying to explain to someone else ages ago &#8211; about how, when arguing with (good faith) dissenters on feminist blogs, it actually seems to work best to have a &#8220;good cop/bad cop&#8221; dynamic going on.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s never intentional, as far as I can tell, but the best way to get a dissenter to admit they were wrong seems to be to have one person (or more) arguing passionately, without any regard for &#8220;tone&#8221; and then have another (or more) back the other(s) up, but in more measured, patient tones.</p>
<p>The dissenter does still tend to be all &#8220;why can&#8217;t you meanies be like her????&#8221; but (from my limited observation) they are much more likely to admit the original point is valid.</p>
<p>However, if you only have the patient, measured comments replying to the dissenter, the dissenter is much more likely to stick to their original view.</p>
<p>My guess is that both the passion and the logic are needed.  The passion is needed to jolt them out of complacency  &#8211; or treating it all as simply a logic exercise, the patience is needed to make it hard for them to get away with only reacting to the passion and not also the actual arguments.</p>
<p>Also, getting to make the &#8220;tone&#8221; argument, even while agreeing they were in the wrong, helps them save face and feel less threatened by admitting wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63452</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do agree with that somewhat, MM. The antis have absolutely nothing to fear from us.

At the very least I think another March for Women&#039;s Lives is in order.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree with that somewhat, MM. The antis have absolutely nothing to fear from us.</p>
<p>At the very least I think another March for Women&#8217;s Lives is in order.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63449</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more comment.  I discussed this thread with a young lady of my acquaintance today (she&#039;s in her early 20&#039;s).  She believes that our tactics are at fault.  Her reference point is the historical theory that peaceful liberation movements work in the face of opposition when there is a group fighting for the same thing that is willing to become violent.  (For example, MLK vs Malcolm X, Gandhi vs Bose)  We know that the antis are willing to go to any extreme to keep women oppressed.  But they believe that we are not willing to do the same thing.  As long as that&#039;s the case, they will have the upper hand.

What does everyone think?  I&#039;m not sure I agree, but it&#039;s definitely an interesting theory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more comment.  I discussed this thread with a young lady of my acquaintance today (she&#8217;s in her early 20&#8242;s).  She believes that our tactics are at fault.  Her reference point is the historical theory that peaceful liberation movements work in the face of opposition when there is a group fighting for the same thing that is willing to become violent.  (For example, MLK vs Malcolm X, Gandhi vs Bose)  We know that the antis are willing to go to any extreme to keep women oppressed.  But they believe that we are not willing to do the same thing.  As long as that&#8217;s the case, they will have the upper hand.</p>
<p>What does everyone think?  I&#8217;m not sure I agree, but it&#8217;s definitely an interesting theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63445</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love Gwen Moore SO MUCH!

I don&#039;t have much chance to be proud of WI politicians, especially the ones in DC.  But GWEN ROCKS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Gwen Moore SO MUCH!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have much chance to be proud of WI politicians, especially the ones in DC.  But GWEN ROCKS.</p>
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		<title>By: jennygadget</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63394</link>
		<dc:creator>jennygadget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 04:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More on topic:

Verity Khat:  I cried too!

Less on topic:

The fact that voting frequency increases with age - as it always has done - has squat to do with which direction people vote.

Also, while activists leaders tend to be older and more experienced, the activists foot soldiers have always tended to be younger.  And always will be.  For the same reason their peers are less likely to vote:  they are more mobile and their lives are less stable.  Making activism less of a risk, and the habit of voting newer and less ingrained.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on topic:</p>
<p>Verity Khat:  I cried too!</p>
<p>Less on topic:</p>
<p>The fact that voting frequency increases with age &#8211; as it always has done &#8211; has squat to do with which direction people vote.</p>
<p>Also, while activists leaders tend to be older and more experienced, the activists foot soldiers have always tended to be younger.  And always will be.  For the same reason their peers are less likely to vote:  they are more mobile and their lives are less stable.  Making activism less of a risk, and the habit of voting newer and less ingrained.</p>
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		<title>By: jennygadget</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/02/18/righteous-rebuttals/comment-page-1/#comment-63392</link>
		<dc:creator>jennygadget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 03:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=19069#comment-63392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, Becky. I don’t see women-or men, for that matter-in their 20′s and 30′s getting out and mobilizing, writing letters, donating, or voting in the numbers we need to make and keep laws protecting women.&quot;

I realize that facebook, twitter, and blogs are hardly the gold standard litmus test of political activism, but I just have to say that the only places that I&#039;ve seen this topic mentioned are:

tweets - generally by women under 40

facebook posts - both by women under 40

blogs like this one - which are again, generally run by women under 40 (the ones the I read, in any case)

So I have to second Becky&#039;s request that you kindly knock off the &quot;kids nowadays&quot; hand-wringing.  All it does it make &quot;young&quot; women like us feel like trying to work with &quot;older&quot; women (like you?) is a lost cause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, Becky. I don’t see women-or men, for that matter-in their 20′s and 30′s getting out and mobilizing, writing letters, donating, or voting in the numbers we need to make and keep laws protecting women.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realize that facebook, twitter, and blogs are hardly the gold standard litmus test of political activism, but I just have to say that the only places that I&#8217;ve seen this topic mentioned are:</p>
<p>tweets &#8211; generally by women under 40</p>
<p>facebook posts &#8211; both by women under 40</p>
<p>blogs like this one &#8211; which are again, generally run by women under 40 (the ones the I read, in any case)</p>
<p>So I have to second Becky&#8217;s request that you kindly knock off the &#8220;kids nowadays&#8221; hand-wringing.  All it does it make &#8220;young&#8221; women like us feel like trying to work with &#8220;older&#8221; women (like you?) is a lost cause.</p>
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