Great post by the way! I’m linking to it from my blog. Awesome investigation skills.

We reserve the right to delete your comment if we find it offensive or boring, regardless of your First Amendment right to be a boring, offensive internet jerk. These are, of course, subjective standards.

We welcome different opinions on this site, and you can see from the thread that there was a lot of disagreement over this post, so it was not your anti-circumcision stance that kept your comment from being approved. The fact that you chose to be hostile and arrogant and personally attack another commenter was the problem. I see that you have posted your comment on your own blog instead, so you’ve been able to make your feelings public without us having to provide a platform for them. If you want to comment here in the future, please bear the commenting policy in mind.

It sounds like you had a nightmarish childhood, and no child deserves that. Your parents failed you terribly.

I would like to point out, gently, that the things your parents did can be done by adults with any, or no, religious ideology. Abusers will use any excuse to abuse. Politics, ethnicity, neighborhood-all kinds of stuff can be the basis of indoctrination and harmful behavior.

We brought our children up in our religion (Judaism) because we believed, and still believe, that it provided a strong moral structure and a history and culture that would help make them into good, caring, responsible people. We always knew that they might not choose to stay Jews as adults. But once the kids are grown, decisions like that become theirs to make. It would be difficult for us if our kids converted, but they would still be our kids and we would still love them and welcome them.

This is just to say that a religious upbringing does not have to be toxic. And a secular upbringing does not guarantee good parenting.

I send my love and healing wishes to you. *hugs*

MM

Now, I’m sure there are multiple reasons for this – this being a feminist space, I doubt that many men are liable to come here and stick around, much less drop comments. But the exclusion of the people for whom this argument is actually important seems really telling of the entire attitude around the issue.

Now, I don’t have a penis, so the issue of circumcision was never brought up for me, but I do want to say things about subjects with which I am familiar.

Firstly, the issue of consent as a red herring, because parents consent to life-saving/improving things for their kids all the time and also ear piercings so it’s all cool, apparently.

There is a *huge* difference between consenting to procedures that are going to save/improve your kid’s life and authorizing a procedure that is almost entirely cosmetic. Which, as I understand it, circumcision is. I’ll try and explain it as well as I can.

Basically, parents have a responsibility to ensure that their child grows up as safe, happy, and healthy as is in their power to do. They have this responsibility because, at least for the first several years, they are in a position of absolute power over the child. An infant is almost completely helpless and, as many have pointed out, incapable of giving consent to these procedures. So it is the responsibility of the parent to authorize these procedures on the child’s behalf, knowing that they will contribute to the betterment of the child and that, years down the line, that child is not likely to begrudge xir parents for making those choices and in fact will probably be grateful for them.

However, parents also have a responsibility not to go too far. Where this issue is related to circumcision, it goes far beyond religious practices, and where this issue is related to religious practices, it goes far beyond circumcision.

I would like to talk about circumcision first. The comparison to having a baby’s ears pierced, I think, is pretty apt. As I understand it, it is an entirely cosmetic procedure, and its supposed benefits to the future health of the child are negligible to nonexistent. Whereas having your child vaccinated, operated on, etc. has tangible future benefits, the only thing you earn for the child whom you circumcise is societal acceptance. Generally speaking, people are allowed to choose whether they want to do something optional to earn the respect of their peers, but regarding circumcision it seems okay to just assume that the baby will want to be as accepted as possible down the road, so go ahead with it.

I don’t think that’s appropriate, any more than getting your child’s ears pierced before “she” is old enough to tell you whether “she” wants it done. Assuming your vagina-bearing child (I’m going to assume that no penis-owning children are subject to this behavior, since it wouldn’t be considered appropriate for a boy to wear earrings) is actually of the female gender, she may decide that she actually doesn’t want to go around with holes in her ears. And if the child should turn out to have a male gender, he is likely to be completely horrified by this invasive, nonconsentual imposition of a female gender marker.

Basically, when it comes to lifesaving medicine, parents can be reasonably sure that they’re making the best decision for their child. When we’re talking about a cosmetic procedure, there is no such certainty.

Now as for religious practice…

“Circumcision, in a religious context, is about bringing a child into a faith tradition that the family wants to share – not nefarious at all.”

Not nefarious, maybe, but it can be incredibly damaging to a child to be adopted into a religion before xe has any idea even what that religion is about. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about circumcision, baptism, First Communion, anything – it shouldn’t be done. I’m going to get personal here, because my parents decided to bring me up in their religion.

Firstly, I believe – and I think this is something that we can all agree on – that religion should be a personal choice. People should be allowed to practice whatever religion they see fit to practice, as long as by doing so they do not cause harm to other people, etc.

Yet every generation, without fail, billions of children are denied that choice.

There was no “well, we are Christians, and you can be one too if you want” with my family. For as long as I can remember I was told “you are a Christian, and that’s that.” From the time I was old enough to comprehend it, I was forced to partake in the rituals, told that I would face an eternity of gruesome punishment if I was not 100% into it, and taught bigotry and intolerance in the name of love. My parents abused me, forcibly stunted my emotional development, and made nearly every major decision I could ever make regarding religion on my behalf, all in the name of doing right by their kid. They made the rules and I was to follow them. There was zero respect of my autonomy, my right to make my own decisions, etc.

Not every child is as forcibly induced as I am. Yet millions are, and millions more are more subtly coerced. Parents often say that it’s their child’s choice, and then pressure their child into making that choice as early as possible and never, ever straying. Or make comments like “You can be anything you want, but if you ever become an atheist I’ll disown you.” You know, little things.

Some people might see this as okay. I do not. I see it as an abuse of privilege, an act of forcing one’s will onto another human being that would be considered unacceptable if not actually illegal if it was one adult doing it to another. Yet because it’s children we consider it okay. Because it’s children, whom we are taught cannot make decisions for themselves and need to be protected and guided by their parents (and I’m not saying that they don’t, to a degree) it is peachy keen for the parents to impose their wills, their desires, onto this kid to shape xem into whatever they think xe ought to be.

This is wrong. This is sickening, ageist claptrap. Children are not personal property, they are a responsibility. When you have a child, it is your job to take that tiny, fragile, innocent baby and do your darned best by xem not so xe becomes the person you want to be, but so that when xe is an adult and ready to become an autonomous human being, xe is equipped to make choices that are responsible, that do not harm others, and that are going to further xir own happiness, health, and safety. That is all. Now, I know that there’s nothing easy about being a parent, and that the emotional ties that you forge with your children will make you feel like you must do everything you can ever think of to give that child the best possible future – and for many parents that means inducting the child into their religion, bringing them safely into the fold before something terrible can happen. But as painful as it is, and I’m sure many of you realize this, this does not extend to making every major life decision your child needs to make on xir behalf. Your child has a born human right to defy you, to do things that don’t make sense to you, even to screw up on an epic level that makes you want to scream and rip your hair out.

And that is a miserable thing, watching a loved one screw up, especially someone whom every fibre of your being is ordering you to protect. But your emotions, your desires, do not trump your child’s rights. Nor does the law. And here’s the thing: these rights I’m describing aren’t legal. Not for children. In the eyes of the law, children are essentially the property of their parents – until they turn eighteen, or are legally emancipated, the only things their parents cannot do to them are send them to work, sexually assault them or commit any kind of assault that causes physical damage, neglect their basic physical needs (as well as a list of state-mandated “needs” that exist mainly to punish the poor for breeding), and kill them. Everything else – including behaviors that would be rightly considered abusive if they were committed against another adult – is peachy keen.

Yet most parents will agree that they have a responsibility not to do them. They have a responsibility not to tell their child stories that will cause lasting trauma and terror. They have a responsibility not to authorize bodily modifications that the child might later regret (this is an especially big concern whenever a parent authorizes transitional processes for their transgender child). They have a responsibility not to beat their child into submission. Etc. Those responsibilities do not suddenly vanish when religion is concerned.

(Of course, part of the problem is that emotional abuse is often not considered real abuse – but that’s a subject for another time.)

As for the comic… well, you never secure one human being’s rights by denying them to someone else. Ever.