Comments on: This Is Where I’d Lose Faith In Humanity If I Hadn’t Lost It Already

By: Amy

Amy — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 18:11:01 +0000

Awesome, thanks for that Marie! I live in Seattle & I read the Stranger every week (of which Savage is the editor), so I like to know the kind of person who’s behind it…

Thanks again!

By: Marie Anelle

Marie Anelle — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 02:29:48 +0000

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/02/dan-savage-please-stop.html

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/10/savage-advice.html

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/01/sweet-jesus-i-hate-dan-savage.html

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/03/dan-savage-chill-with-your-race-baiting/

http://tigerbeatdown.blogspot.com/2008/11/profiles-in-douchery-dan-savage.html

All with appropriate links and whatnot. The guy is a total juicebox who has no business telling people that it’s going to be okay because ‘it get’s better’….apparently when you’re lesbian, bi, fat or a rape victim, you’re still fair game.

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 23:58:16 +0000

I’m a little late on the topic and this isn’t entirely on point, but I’m just curious if you can point out the Dan Savage hypocrisy bit for me? I’ve heard a lot of negative shit about him second-hand but don’t really know any actual instances where he’s been bullying fat people. I’m no huge Dan Savage fan or anything, I’m just curious for some concrete examples if you have them? Thank you!

By: mumsyjr

mumsyjr — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:29:23 +0000

I agree with Krissie S, Becky Sharper, and rogelio. Single moms, the poor, and minorities, are exactly who would be targeted with this. I would like to join The Nerd in a standing ovation.
@underbelly- I see what you are saying about smoking being not quite the same as fat, but I don’t think shaming is going to have a positive effect because it tends to just make people mad or, um, shamed…and then they go have a cigarette. Confronting and educating smokers is one thing, but there’s still a line that can be crossed, and at the end of the day you still can’t control their choices, even when they are choices you don’t approve of (for very good reasons).

By: rodriguez

rodriguez — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:52:53 +0000

Small, maybe meaningless anecdote:

Long time ago I took a picture of my baby daughter using black and white film sitting in a high chair. Her face was covered in some gloppy dark stuff, like she’d just put her face in a chocolate cake, just like the kid above.

I showed it to my co-worker. “Isn’t she the cutest!” I was a proud new mama.

My co-worker looked a little shocked and asked me with some not so well-contained disdain: “Is that chocolate on her face?”

I remember his reaction even though it’s been 19 years. And I totally bought into his attitude. I was so glad to be able to say, truthfully, “No, it’s prunes.” Now I look back on that and consider what he was thinking and what I was thinking.

By: underbelly

underbelly — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:54:32 +0000

@mischiefmanager

an SLP is a speech-language pathologist. someone who stutters goes to see an SLP, etc.

By: Hershele Ostropoler

Hershele Ostropoler — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:50:27 +0000

This is not, of course, the first time CPS (or an analogue) has been used in a racist way. That’s why I’m always concerned about expanding the definition of “child abuse” to things that may not be in the parents’ cotrol, and especially to something that may be in the parents’ control but is hard to link to clear, inevitable harm to the child (vegan parents losing their children, say).

By: mischiefmanager

mischiefmanager — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:10:06 +0000

@underbelly: What’s an SLP?

@Anna: I see your point. Still, though, docs collect all kinds of data that we as patients find uncomfortable to discuss-what our eating and exercise habits are, for example. They wouldn’t be doing their jobs thoroughly if they didn’t. So I wonder how we can balance the externally imposed shame that many people feel about many aspects of their health with the doctor’s responsibility to be upfront with the patient.

Ok,this is kind of a threadjack. Maybe a dedicated post would be better…

By: underbelly

underbelly — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 01:57:06 +0000

You hit the nail on the head when you said “we’d rather damage the psyche of children to further the crusade against disgusting fatties than actually fix the problem” thing. Right on, sister.

However. I read your post earlier today, and I thought about not commenting due to avoid hijacking the comment thread, being deemed an asshole, having all of the harpies hate me, etc., but something you said has been bothering me all damn day so I’m just gonna say it.

It’s the smoking part. I don’t agree that being concerned about smoking equals being a “health troll” in the same way that fat shaming does. I don’t agree that you can be healthy and be a cigarette smoker.

I’m in graduate school to be an SLP, and I work with adults with acquired aphasia who have had strokes. One of the risk factors for stroke is smoking. And let me tell you, working with stroke patients can be fucking sad. Rewarding, but sad. I have one woman who can only speak a handful of words, one at a time, for the rest of her life. I don’t know if all the people in the aphasia clinic were smokers, or if smoking led to stroke moreso than other factors in individual clients, but what I am saying is that smoking puts a person at risk for some really, really terrible shit. And unless a person has a condition in which s/he can medically benefit from cigarette smoking (such as someone with schizophrenia), I think about smoking the same way I think about crack cocaine.

This is why I don’t feel bad about ragging on my dad to quit, or commending the new graphic FDA banners that will soon be attached to every cigarette box, or being glad that places like airports, hospitals, restaurants, and shopping malls are smoke-free in the USA.

So when something like fat-shaming, something I find inhumane and completely unacceptable, is lumped together with smoking, I get a little upset. It’s just not same thing.

(One more PSA announcement, sorry: btw, smoking cigarettes while on BC increases risk of blood clots, which increases risk of stroke.)

By: annajcook

annajcook — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:24:38 +0000

@mischiefmanager mmm. I think the weighing conversation might be a more involved one than this comment thread should be asked to sustain, but I would argue this: that there's a difference between routine weighing as part of intake at virtually every doctor's appointments (even specialists do it) and tracking the body mass of someone with whom you are working in a holistic manner and have decided (together) that tracking weight is part of your plan to better health. Routine taking of a person's weight often just causes feelings of shame and has driven a number of women I know personally away from seeking medical care for any number of conditions (and I know from reading fat activist blogs this is not uncommon). So, from the perspective of a doctor who is seeking to reach patients who are not getting care it might be worth considering how de-emphasizing weight as part of the intake procedure might actually facilitate better outcomes for patients at the heavier end of the spectrum.