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	<title>Comments on: Reader Request: Routine Weigh-Ins &amp; Medical Access</title>
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		<title>By: rossignol</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70353</link>
		<dc:creator>rossignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Serious question which could be totally moot since I have no medical knowledge: Isn&#039;t the weigh-in necessary if a doctor is going to prescribe something for you, in order to determine the correct dosage? If so, it seems more convenient to have one scale at which people are weighed before an appointment than either a scale in every exam room or to have people get weighed in the middle/after their appointment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serious question which could be totally moot since I have no medical knowledge: Isn&#8217;t the weigh-in necessary if a doctor is going to prescribe something for you, in order to determine the correct dosage? If so, it seems more convenient to have one scale at which people are weighed before an appointment than either a scale in every exam room or to have people get weighed in the middle/after their appointment.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70277</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@PetiteXL:  I don&#039;t think you&#039;re off-base or overly harsh at all.  The relationship between doctors and patients is based on an extremely unhealthy, paternalistic model of interaction.  It&#039;s all active, controlling, demanding on the doc&#039;s side, and all passive, controlled, accepting on the patient&#039;s, to put it in a very simplified way.  The doc traditionally has all the information and the patient has none.  This has created a situation in which the patient has learned not to speak up for herself.  It also teaches docs to see patients as helpless, ignorant, often irrational children.  

But there&#039;s no inherent reason it has to be that way.  Especially these days with easy access to medical information, patients have little excuse to allow this interaction to continue.  In a sense, you can&#039;t blame the docs for taking control when we cede it-they&#039;re taught to fix problems.  So both med schools and patients have to recreate the interaction so it&#039;s more egalitarian.  It&#039;s going to take time, but if we, the patients, demand it, change will come.

Nothing in the traditional model, of course, requires docs to be insulting, cruel, or insensitive.  I know some med schools have been trying to teach students to be more aware of the experience of the patient, holding classes in which the students practice on pretend patients and taking turns acting as patients themselves.  Hospitals are also teaching ethics classes, which can only be a good thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PetiteXL:  I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re off-base or overly harsh at all.  The relationship between doctors and patients is based on an extremely unhealthy, paternalistic model of interaction.  It&#8217;s all active, controlling, demanding on the doc&#8217;s side, and all passive, controlled, accepting on the patient&#8217;s, to put it in a very simplified way.  The doc traditionally has all the information and the patient has none.  This has created a situation in which the patient has learned not to speak up for herself.  It also teaches docs to see patients as helpless, ignorant, often irrational children.  </p>
<p>But there&#8217;s no inherent reason it has to be that way.  Especially these days with easy access to medical information, patients have little excuse to allow this interaction to continue.  In a sense, you can&#8217;t blame the docs for taking control when we cede it-they&#8217;re taught to fix problems.  So both med schools and patients have to recreate the interaction so it&#8217;s more egalitarian.  It&#8217;s going to take time, but if we, the patients, demand it, change will come.</p>
<p>Nothing in the traditional model, of course, requires docs to be insulting, cruel, or insensitive.  I know some med schools have been trying to teach students to be more aware of the experience of the patient, holding classes in which the students practice on pretend patients and taking turns acting as patients themselves.  Hospitals are also teaching ethics classes, which can only be a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackey</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70276</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(edit - &quot;and are ashamed about weight&quot;, should read &quot;and are shamed about weight&quot;.. ie that drs/medical specialists shame a person about their weight..)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(edit &#8211; &#8220;and are ashamed about weight&#8221;, should read &#8220;and are shamed about weight&#8221;.. ie that drs/medical specialists shame a person about their weight..)</p>
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		<title>By: Mackey</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 06:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@mm - that is interesting. I would think that it is possible for it to be a class issue.. but there are also arguments on the other side for it not to be as well. (For eg, if you are going to get weighed, and are ashamed about weight and don&#039;t want to be weighed, regardless of how good or not insurance is - I don&#039;t see why in either case you would want to visit the dr unless you absolutely had to.)

Various studies have found, in Australia with our system of socialised medicine, that there is a class element (lower income households are less likely to visit a dr than higher income households), and a gendered element (the research uses the binary gender nomenclature, men are less likely to see a dr than women).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mm &#8211; that is interesting. I would think that it is possible for it to be a class issue.. but there are also arguments on the other side for it not to be as well. (For eg, if you are going to get weighed, and are ashamed about weight and don&#8217;t want to be weighed, regardless of how good or not insurance is &#8211; I don&#8217;t see why in either case you would want to visit the dr unless you absolutely had to.)</p>
<p>Various studies have found, in Australia with our system of socialised medicine, that there is a class element (lower income households are less likely to visit a dr than higher income households), and a gendered element (the research uses the binary gender nomenclature, men are less likely to see a dr than women).</p>
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		<title>By: PetiteXL</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70271</link>
		<dc:creator>PetiteXL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 01:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aww...  Thanks for taking my complaints all the way to the TOP, MM!  Regarding the class issue, my guess is that if you don&#039;t have health insurance and have saved up for a particular visit, you probably are just happy to have something rather than nothing, if that makes sense.  You&#039;re probably willing to deal with a little crummy behavior rather than nothing, too.

I just don&#039;t know.  Perhaps we expect too much of doctors.  I know my suggestion above is pretty pie-in-the-sky (and sounded mean and derogatory towards doctors, I&#039;m sorry about that, just frustrated and angry when I think about this issue) but I really believe it&#039;s the right way to go.  Doctors simply can&#039;t &quot;treat&quot; this problem alone and I think that&#039;s part of the problem.  They can set a broken arm, heal an infection with antibiotics, remove a tumor, but this issue is much more complex and resistant to treatment.   I think I might find it frustrating, too, if I were a doctor!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aww&#8230;  Thanks for taking my complaints all the way to the TOP, MM!  Regarding the class issue, my guess is that if you don&#8217;t have health insurance and have saved up for a particular visit, you probably are just happy to have something rather than nothing, if that makes sense.  You&#8217;re probably willing to deal with a little crummy behavior rather than nothing, too.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t know.  Perhaps we expect too much of doctors.  I know my suggestion above is pretty pie-in-the-sky (and sounded mean and derogatory towards doctors, I&#8217;m sorry about that, just frustrated and angry when I think about this issue) but I really believe it&#8217;s the right way to go.  Doctors simply can&#8217;t &#8220;treat&#8221; this problem alone and I think that&#8217;s part of the problem.  They can set a broken arm, heal an infection with antibiotics, remove a tumor, but this issue is much more complex and resistant to treatment.   I think I might find it frustrating, too, if I were a doctor!</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70264</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 21:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70264</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had an interesting discussion about this matter today.  I work in the research end of a medical facility of the federal government.  My boss is a physician.  I raised this with him and some colleagues today.  I wasn&#039;t surprised at the initial dismissal by my boss, who is a white, right-wing male. But I was surprised when a female (not a doc) suggested that the phenomenon of women deferring doctor visits out of fear of weight-shaming was, to her mind, probably a class-related phenomenon.  She argued that the harder it is to get medical care at all, the less likely it is that the patient will worry about something like this.  

Any thoughts?  I have a gut feeling that she&#039;s wrong, but I have no evidence on either side.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an interesting discussion about this matter today.  I work in the research end of a medical facility of the federal government.  My boss is a physician.  I raised this with him and some colleagues today.  I wasn&#8217;t surprised at the initial dismissal by my boss, who is a white, right-wing male. But I was surprised when a female (not a doc) suggested that the phenomenon of women deferring doctor visits out of fear of weight-shaming was, to her mind, probably a class-related phenomenon.  She argued that the harder it is to get medical care at all, the less likely it is that the patient will worry about something like this.  </p>
<p>Any thoughts?  I have a gut feeling that she&#8217;s wrong, but I have no evidence on either side.</p>
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		<title>By: Plum-Pie</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70250</link>
		<dc:creator>Plum-Pie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;A recent unexplained gain or loss is something the patient might not choose to raise.&#039;

I went to the doctor last year as I had a lingering virus (I was over-worked) and one of the questions my doctor asked me was if I had recently lost weight without changing my lifestyle (I can&#039;t remember her exact wording), she was satisfied with my answer and didn&#039;t weigh me. Seeing as cancer and depression (both of which run in my family) have unexplained weight loss as a symptom, I don&#039;t think ignoring weight completely is right. However, I have nothing more to say on the limits of weight as the sole marker of health better than this: http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/so-my-doctor-tried-to-kill-me/

I  have only ever been weighed when registering with a new surgery, although I wonder if local health priorities affect the doctor or nurse&#039;s reaction. At 25 and just overweight on the BMI scale, a nurse criticised my weight, but not the amount I drank. At the time I was living in a borough where a large percentage of the population is judged to be overweight. 5 years later, I live in a borough with fewer &#039;overweight&#039; people, I drink much less than I did at  25 and am currently just obese. When I registered with a new GP practise, the nurse didn&#039;t say anything about my weight but did suggest I was drinking too much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;A recent unexplained gain or loss is something the patient might not choose to raise.&#8217;</p>
<p>I went to the doctor last year as I had a lingering virus (I was over-worked) and one of the questions my doctor asked me was if I had recently lost weight without changing my lifestyle (I can&#8217;t remember her exact wording), she was satisfied with my answer and didn&#8217;t weigh me. Seeing as cancer and depression (both of which run in my family) have unexplained weight loss as a symptom, I don&#8217;t think ignoring weight completely is right. However, I have nothing more to say on the limits of weight as the sole marker of health better than this: <a href="http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/so-my-doctor-tried-to-kill-me/" rel="nofollow">http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/so-my-doctor-tried-to-kill-me/</a></p>
<p>I  have only ever been weighed when registering with a new surgery, although I wonder if local health priorities affect the doctor or nurse&#8217;s reaction. At 25 and just overweight on the BMI scale, a nurse criticised my weight, but not the amount I drank. At the time I was living in a borough where a large percentage of the population is judged to be overweight. 5 years later, I live in a borough with fewer &#8216;overweight&#8217; people, I drink much less than I did at  25 and am currently just obese. When I registered with a new GP practise, the nurse didn&#8217;t say anything about my weight but did suggest I was drinking too much.</p>
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		<title>By: PetiteXL</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70245</link>
		<dc:creator>PetiteXL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For the bulk of my life, I have had good health insurance and have been able to go to doctors of my own choosing.  Even so, I think I have had only two doctors who did not behave in ways (overt or subtle) that let me know I disgust them and who did not *relentlessly* harp upon my weight.  This started as young as nine years old and at the Opthamologist, no less, who spoke to me as if I were slow and said, &quot;Look honey, I want to tell you something, OK?  Lose some weight for me.  Can you do that?&quot;  So many things wrong with this and you just don&#039;t give this kind of generic instruction to a child, FFS.

I am so often treated so poorly at doctor&#039;s offices that I have come to the conclusion that there is something about medical school and the way doctors are taught about weight and obesity that is dysfunctional.  In no other aspect of my life am I ever treated so poorly.*  So in my mind, the core issue here is that doctors seem to somehow develop a malignant prejudice in our medical schools and  we need to remedy this.  Immediately.  Stat!  It is negatively affecting the health of their own patients!

So @MischiefManager, I think the reason why your seemingly reasonable point that a doctor is remiss in not discussing these things is getting push back is that I  have rarely seen a doctor who is able to do this in a non-hateful way!  The prejudice is just that strong.  My proposal:  

1)  The medical community must recognize this as a problem and medical colleges must begin required courses on how to deal with your own anti-fat (and other!) prejudices.  

2)  Because so many doctors have shown that they do not know how to handle discussing weight with fat patients, they must be trained to delegate any talk of diet and weight to trained professionals.  My thought here is Nutritionists, who often seem to have a pretty good handle on the social and emotional part of weight and obesity.  I have noticed that some clinics have already started to do this.  It puts the &quot;problem&quot; in the hands of a professional specifically trained for this.  Win-win!  If the patient is at the point of truly dangerous obesity, the Nutritionist (or designated health professional) would ideally act as the fat patient&#039;s advocate in their dealings with the doctor.  (Regarding the point about doctors being concerned about being remiss/being sued:  They didn&#039;t &quot;do nothing&quot; if this proposal is followed.  They FOLLOWED protocol!)

While I personally don&#039;t mind being weighed at the doctor&#039;s office, I actually think that at this point in our culture NOT WEIGHING does far more good on the whole than weighing.  Weighing every time waves a big red flag about an already explosive topic and I suspect it somehow reinforces doctor&#039;s existing prejudices, though I don&#039;t know how, exactly.  


* An interesting side note is that dentists are often quite kind to me.  I&#039;m one of the few people you might meet that does not hate going to the dentist!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the bulk of my life, I have had good health insurance and have been able to go to doctors of my own choosing.  Even so, I think I have had only two doctors who did not behave in ways (overt or subtle) that let me know I disgust them and who did not *relentlessly* harp upon my weight.  This started as young as nine years old and at the Opthamologist, no less, who spoke to me as if I were slow and said, &#8220;Look honey, I want to tell you something, OK?  Lose some weight for me.  Can you do that?&#8221;  So many things wrong with this and you just don&#8217;t give this kind of generic instruction to a child, FFS.</p>
<p>I am so often treated so poorly at doctor&#8217;s offices that I have come to the conclusion that there is something about medical school and the way doctors are taught about weight and obesity that is dysfunctional.  In no other aspect of my life am I ever treated so poorly.*  So in my mind, the core issue here is that doctors seem to somehow develop a malignant prejudice in our medical schools and  we need to remedy this.  Immediately.  Stat!  It is negatively affecting the health of their own patients!</p>
<p>So @MischiefManager, I think the reason why your seemingly reasonable point that a doctor is remiss in not discussing these things is getting push back is that I  have rarely seen a doctor who is able to do this in a non-hateful way!  The prejudice is just that strong.  My proposal:  </p>
<p>1)  The medical community must recognize this as a problem and medical colleges must begin required courses on how to deal with your own anti-fat (and other!) prejudices.  </p>
<p>2)  Because so many doctors have shown that they do not know how to handle discussing weight with fat patients, they must be trained to delegate any talk of diet and weight to trained professionals.  My thought here is Nutritionists, who often seem to have a pretty good handle on the social and emotional part of weight and obesity.  I have noticed that some clinics have already started to do this.  It puts the &#8220;problem&#8221; in the hands of a professional specifically trained for this.  Win-win!  If the patient is at the point of truly dangerous obesity, the Nutritionist (or designated health professional) would ideally act as the fat patient&#8217;s advocate in their dealings with the doctor.  (Regarding the point about doctors being concerned about being remiss/being sued:  They didn&#8217;t &#8220;do nothing&#8221; if this proposal is followed.  They FOLLOWED protocol!)</p>
<p>While I personally don&#8217;t mind being weighed at the doctor&#8217;s office, I actually think that at this point in our culture NOT WEIGHING does far more good on the whole than weighing.  Weighing every time waves a big red flag about an already explosive topic and I suspect it somehow reinforces doctor&#8217;s existing prejudices, though I don&#8217;t know how, exactly.  </p>
<p>* An interesting side note is that dentists are often quite kind to me.  I&#8217;m one of the few people you might meet that does not hate going to the dentist!</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70234</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1. As a result of me being both trans and aware of widespread transphobia in the world, I have experienced fear in advance of appointments for physical evaluations with new doctors, because of the possibility that those doctors would want to examine &quot;sensitive&quot; areas. 
Do I think the solution is to discourage doctors from examining those areas? No. A good compromise, however, is for those examinations to take place later in the process, and for them to be preceded by an explanation of their possible importance and a query about the patient&#039;s comfort level, with the implication that uncomfortable patients can skip that part of the visit. It seems like a similar model of care might make sense for weighing, although I don&#039;t have enough personal experience with weight-related body dissatisfaction to say for sure.

2. You had an endocrinologist whose scale was located in the hallway behind the receptionists&#039; desk? Interesting - so did I.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. As a result of me being both trans and aware of widespread transphobia in the world, I have experienced fear in advance of appointments for physical evaluations with new doctors, because of the possibility that those doctors would want to examine &#8220;sensitive&#8221; areas.<br />
Do I think the solution is to discourage doctors from examining those areas? No. A good compromise, however, is for those examinations to take place later in the process, and for them to be preceded by an explanation of their possible importance and a query about the patient&#8217;s comfort level, with the implication that uncomfortable patients can skip that part of the visit. It seems like a similar model of care might make sense for weighing, although I don&#8217;t have enough personal experience with weight-related body dissatisfaction to say for sure.</p>
<p>2. You had an endocrinologist whose scale was located in the hallway behind the receptionists&#8217; desk? Interesting &#8211; so did I.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2011/07/28/reader-request-routine-weigh-ins-medical-access/comment-page-1/#comment-70227</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=20550#comment-70227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well done, Ms M!  Although if the doc who prescribed the meds is the same one giving you a hard time about your weight, maybe he needs to review your records a little better next time you come in.  *sigh*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Ms M!  Although if the doc who prescribed the meds is the same one giving you a hard time about your weight, maybe he needs to review your records a little better next time you come in.  *sigh*</p>
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