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	<title>Comments on: Discussion Time: Media, Academia and Commentary on Body Image</title>
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	<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/</link>
	<description>As narrated by the most charming and vicious women on the internet</description>
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		<title>By: Mackey</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82807</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the thing to remember is that the term &quot;obesity&quot; is a relative and subjective term. And that the meanings attached to the term, in particular how to identify this particular &quot;thing&quot; (I personally don&#039;t like the term obesity, especially now it&#039;s not just a medical term), are loaded with a lot of extra cultural signifiers that do not have any health information attached, and it becomes a public place to comment.

This is where I grind my teeth and get angry. Because nobodies appearance should be subject to public comment, especially by people who have not been consulted by that person for health advice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the thing to remember is that the term &#8220;obesity&#8221; is a relative and subjective term. And that the meanings attached to the term, in particular how to identify this particular &#8220;thing&#8221; (I personally don&#8217;t like the term obesity, especially now it&#8217;s not just a medical term), are loaded with a lot of extra cultural signifiers that do not have any health information attached, and it becomes a public place to comment.</p>
<p>This is where I grind my teeth and get angry. Because nobodies appearance should be subject to public comment, especially by people who have not been consulted by that person for health advice.</p>
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		<title>By: Rikibeth</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82794</link>
		<dc:creator>Rikibeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not even just that obesity and other frequently associated health problems are comorbid; in many cases, the obesity is a &lt;em&gt;symptom&lt;/em&gt; of the underlying health problem, not a cause of it. Treat a thyroid problem or PCOS appropriately, for example, and often enough a person will lose weight as they respond to the treatment. Funny, that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not even just that obesity and other frequently associated health problems are comorbid; in many cases, the obesity is a <em>symptom</em> of the underlying health problem, not a cause of it. Treat a thyroid problem or PCOS appropriately, for example, and often enough a person will lose weight as they respond to the treatment. Funny, that.</p>
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		<title>By: ahimsa</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82729</link>
		<dc:creator>ahimsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Body policing is just wrong. Period.

Leaving aside the fact that a person&#039;s health is not something to be discussed by random strangers (whatever happened to minding one&#039;s own business?), I agree with all the commenters who say that one can&#039;t tell whether people are healthy just by looking at them.

I live this issue every day but from the other side of the coin. My body looks healthy but I am not healthy. I have a disabling chronic illness but it&#039;s not visible to the casual observer.

We need to stop making superficial assumptions about other people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Body policing is just wrong. Period.</p>
<p>Leaving aside the fact that a person&#8217;s health is not something to be discussed by random strangers (whatever happened to minding one&#8217;s own business?), I agree with all the commenters who say that one can&#8217;t tell whether people are healthy just by looking at them.</p>
<p>I live this issue every day but from the other side of the coin. My body looks healthy but I am not healthy. I have a disabling chronic illness but it&#8217;s not visible to the casual observer.</p>
<p>We need to stop making superficial assumptions about other people.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82719</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll check them out.  Thanks, Drahill.

Do you see obesity in children as more of a health problem than it is in adults?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll check them out.  Thanks, Drahill.</p>
<p>Do you see obesity in children as more of a health problem than it is in adults?</p>
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		<title>By: Drahill</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82708</link>
		<dc:creator>Drahill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM: Yes, other first-world nations are also experiencing rising weights of the citizenry across the board, though I do not think any of them are quite on par with the US quite yet. However, it is a global phenomenon.

On your first point: the problem I had with your initial statement was that it started out with the assumption that obesity is inherently a problem. And saying that obesity is linked to a ton of health issues actually isn&#039;t totally true - this is good article by Kate Harding that debunks a lot of arguments that obesity is inherently unhealthy: http://jezebel.com/5356697/fat-vs-fiction

I&#039;d also recommend Harding&#039;s post at her own blog (which I can&#039;t link to at the moment) called &quot;Don&#039;t You Know Fat is Unhealthy?&quot; A lot of the conditions that have been allegedly linked to obesity and weight really haven&#039;t; they&#039;ve only been shown to be comorbid in many people. 

Long story short: No, obesity itself is not linked to a whole host of health issues. The media and others like to argue this because it makes it easier to demonize fat people and treat them like less. So, in short, there isn&#039;t any &quot;obesity problem.&quot; We have a food resource problem, a problem with producing cheap foods that are not healthy (and healthy has never meant low in claories), and a major problem with accepting fat people. But I think to say America has an obesity problem misses the mark a bit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM: Yes, other first-world nations are also experiencing rising weights of the citizenry across the board, though I do not think any of them are quite on par with the US quite yet. However, it is a global phenomenon.</p>
<p>On your first point: the problem I had with your initial statement was that it started out with the assumption that obesity is inherently a problem. And saying that obesity is linked to a ton of health issues actually isn&#8217;t totally true &#8211; this is good article by Kate Harding that debunks a lot of arguments that obesity is inherently unhealthy: <a href="http://jezebel.com/5356697/fat-vs-fiction" rel="nofollow">http://jezebel.com/5356697/fat-vs-fiction</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d also recommend Harding&#8217;s post at her own blog (which I can&#8217;t link to at the moment) called &#8220;Don&#8217;t You Know Fat is Unhealthy?&#8221; A lot of the conditions that have been allegedly linked to obesity and weight really haven&#8217;t; they&#8217;ve only been shown to be comorbid in many people. </p>
<p>Long story short: No, obesity itself is not linked to a whole host of health issues. The media and others like to argue this because it makes it easier to demonize fat people and treat them like less. So, in short, there isn&#8217;t any &#8220;obesity problem.&#8221; We have a food resource problem, a problem with producing cheap foods that are not healthy (and healthy has never meant low in claories), and a major problem with accepting fat people. But I think to say America has an obesity problem misses the mark a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82702</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you&#039;re saying that an increase in average weight is not in and of itself a matter of concern, right?  Well, but we do have a lot of evidence connecting obesity (real obesity, not measurable muscle mass as in your case) and a whole list of health problems.  And those are across the economic spectrum, as I understand it.  

I am in complete agreement with your last sentence, but I&#039;m not sure I see how recording, studying, and analyzing national health trends is a bad thing.  Using the information to slam people is both bad and counterproductive, of course.  But knowing what&#039;s going on is valuable, if for no other reason than that it&#039;s ammunition in the war against Big Ag and the chemical-laden, overprocessed garbage they want us to eat.

Are other countries experiencing an increase in the size of their citizens comparable to what we&#039;re seeing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re saying that an increase in average weight is not in and of itself a matter of concern, right?  Well, but we do have a lot of evidence connecting obesity (real obesity, not measurable muscle mass as in your case) and a whole list of health problems.  And those are across the economic spectrum, as I understand it.  </p>
<p>I am in complete agreement with your last sentence, but I&#8217;m not sure I see how recording, studying, and analyzing national health trends is a bad thing.  Using the information to slam people is both bad and counterproductive, of course.  But knowing what&#8217;s going on is valuable, if for no other reason than that it&#8217;s ammunition in the war against Big Ag and the chemical-laden, overprocessed garbage they want us to eat.</p>
<p>Are other countries experiencing an increase in the size of their citizens comparable to what we&#8217;re seeing?</p>
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		<title>By: Drahill</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82700</link>
		<dc:creator>Drahill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM: I think, at least initially, you need to back up even further with your question. You start from the beginning using the term &quot;obesity problem.&quot; I think this is where the discussion really needs to start, since it is the basis for the rest of the argument. 

All the data shows that Americans are getting bigger. No disputing it. However, the dominant way of measuring obesity in this country is STILL the BMI. The BMI is a horribly flawed and inaccurate measure of weight and health. I am considered nearly obese by the BMI standard, despite having less than 15% body fat - my weight comes from muscle. Mostly all the people in my gym could be classified the same way, despite not actually being obese and being in excellent health. So, the first problem is that the numbers are actually skewed - because not every person the government labels as obese actually is. 

The second problem is that using the obesity data to infer the state of health in this nation is flawed. Unless the government is keeping track of every overweight person in this country, it is a logical fallicy to assume that every one of those people is unhealthy. Many are unhealthy; many are not. Many thin people are deeply unhealthy - but no connection between their size and health issues is drawn automatically. The data about increasing weights is used to infer bad health - and such an inference really isn&#039;t supported by the evidence. 

Is there evidence that Americans are having health issues? Sure. Is diabetes on the rise? Yes it is. However, is every one of those diabetics obese or overweight? Hell no. Does diabetes often occur in obese people? Yup. Does that automatically support the conclusion that diabetes is the RESULT of weight gain? No! But that is basically what is assumed now - and all that does is shame fat people. 

Basically, I think we need to let go of the belief that data showing that Americans are getting larger is, in and of itself, cause for concern. Americans need access to better food, more options  and resources to help them exercise choice in food. That is a noble goal in and of itself. The problem I have with most of the arguments though is that they rely on scare tactics about weight and size to promote an otherwise good cause. What happens if America starts providing citizens with healthy, better foods and our collective weight doesn&#039;t decrease (because after all, you can just as easily meet a high caloric content with healthy foods too)? That may very well happen. But as long as we have fat people, we have the scapegoats who can carry the agenda.

So I think societal weight trends shouldn&#039;t really be part of the equation. Good food should be a right of citizens regardless of weight or size.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM: I think, at least initially, you need to back up even further with your question. You start from the beginning using the term &#8220;obesity problem.&#8221; I think this is where the discussion really needs to start, since it is the basis for the rest of the argument. </p>
<p>All the data shows that Americans are getting bigger. No disputing it. However, the dominant way of measuring obesity in this country is STILL the BMI. The BMI is a horribly flawed and inaccurate measure of weight and health. I am considered nearly obese by the BMI standard, despite having less than 15% body fat &#8211; my weight comes from muscle. Mostly all the people in my gym could be classified the same way, despite not actually being obese and being in excellent health. So, the first problem is that the numbers are actually skewed &#8211; because not every person the government labels as obese actually is. </p>
<p>The second problem is that using the obesity data to infer the state of health in this nation is flawed. Unless the government is keeping track of every overweight person in this country, it is a logical fallicy to assume that every one of those people is unhealthy. Many are unhealthy; many are not. Many thin people are deeply unhealthy &#8211; but no connection between their size and health issues is drawn automatically. The data about increasing weights is used to infer bad health &#8211; and such an inference really isn&#8217;t supported by the evidence. </p>
<p>Is there evidence that Americans are having health issues? Sure. Is diabetes on the rise? Yes it is. However, is every one of those diabetics obese or overweight? Hell no. Does diabetes often occur in obese people? Yup. Does that automatically support the conclusion that diabetes is the RESULT of weight gain? No! But that is basically what is assumed now &#8211; and all that does is shame fat people. </p>
<p>Basically, I think we need to let go of the belief that data showing that Americans are getting larger is, in and of itself, cause for concern. Americans need access to better food, more options  and resources to help them exercise choice in food. That is a noble goal in and of itself. The problem I have with most of the arguments though is that they rely on scare tactics about weight and size to promote an otherwise good cause. What happens if America starts providing citizens with healthy, better foods and our collective weight doesn&#8217;t decrease (because after all, you can just as easily meet a high caloric content with healthy foods too)? That may very well happen. But as long as we have fat people, we have the scapegoats who can carry the agenda.</p>
<p>So I think societal weight trends shouldn&#8217;t really be part of the equation. Good food should be a right of citizens regardless of weight or size.</p>
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		<title>By: mischiefmanager</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82698</link>
		<dc:creator>mischiefmanager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tiptoeing into the minefield...

Mackey, would you say that there&#039;s a difference between discussing overall societal weight trends and the kind of body policing you reference?  That is, is it possible to suggest that, say, Americans have an obesity problem without saying that any individual is worth less because of his or her body shape?  My understanding is that to some degree, obesity is related to class and income, and those translate to the availability of healthy food choices.  So to say that obesity and income are correlated (if they are) should be the beginning of a discussion about how to solve that and make healthy ingredients available and affordable to all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiptoeing into the minefield&#8230;</p>
<p>Mackey, would you say that there&#8217;s a difference between discussing overall societal weight trends and the kind of body policing you reference?  That is, is it possible to suggest that, say, Americans have an obesity problem without saying that any individual is worth less because of his or her body shape?  My understanding is that to some degree, obesity is related to class and income, and those translate to the availability of healthy food choices.  So to say that obesity and income are correlated (if they are) should be the beginning of a discussion about how to solve that and make healthy ingredients available and affordable to all.</p>
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		<title>By: itchbay</title>
		<link>http://www.harpyness.com/2012/02/13/discussion-time-media-academia-and-commentary-on-body-image/comment-page-1/#comment-82656</link>
		<dc:creator>itchbay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harpyness.com/?p=22088#comment-82656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, this! Thank you for sharing these two posts! The amount of body policing is getting out of hand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this! Thank you for sharing these two posts! The amount of body policing is getting out of hand.</p>
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